Author Topic: When you have to have that difficult conversation...  (Read 1652 times)

The Atroxious

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Re: When you have to have that difficult conversation...
« Reply #20 on: February 24, 2017, 04:14:38 PM »
I didn't need a short lesson about invasive species or environmental threats, it's pretty clear you're good at doing your homework, it's not necessary you show it off all the times. I thought it was quite obvious I was expressing a personal sentiment, I live with five cats and I love them a lot, where's the problem if I say that I hope the feline didn't get killed by the bird?

I know that "cuties" are being killed every minute by predators in nature, regardless of which one is the native or the invasive species, it simply wasn't the point of my posts and therefore I didn't need any sarcastic lesson of sort. I feel much more insufferable to be patronizing and picky with people just because you dislike something they've said rather than have a silly preference for cute kitties over birds of prey.

There's obviously nothing wrong with having a fondness for cats, or hoping the cat didn't get killed by the owl. The problem I personally had with your statement was that the way you phrased it seemed to be implying that you expected everyone to prioritize the life of the cat over the life of the bird simply because you like cats. If it's not the photographer's cat, and the cat doesn't belong to anyone the photographer knows, it's not the photographer's responsibility to interfere in a natural act of predation just because you personally like cats. That said, it would be hypocritical of me to complain about someone who chooses to save an animal from predation, since I myself have been known to do so when I see spiders getting being by wasps, but I don't exactly think it's the "right" thing to do, nor do I expect anyone else to try to chase off a wasp to save a spider. My own personal fondness for spiders is just that--personal. I know that not everyone feels the same way, and they are free to choose whether to let the natural course of things occur unimpeded, or to do the same as me and interfere. As it is, we have to acknowledge that wasps (and owls) have to eat too, and us interfering in their lives is no different than if a herd of cattle busted into a steakhouse while you were about to enjoy a meal, and chased you off.

For all we know, the cat wasn't even anyone's pet. Feral cats are hardly uncommon, and in many circumstances, they are inevitably going to be targeted by other predators. The fact that it's a cat doesn't make its life worth more than that of the owl and possibly the owl's chicks. Keep in mind that under different circumstances the cat would most likely have attacked the owl, given the chance and motivation.


Derek.McManus

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Re: When you have to have that difficult conversation...
« Reply #21 on: February 24, 2017, 04:33:53 PM »
Nature red in tooth and claw as the old saying goes!

stargatedalek

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Re: When you have to have that difficult conversation...
« Reply #22 on: February 24, 2017, 04:55:25 PM »
As a herp keeper, the affection only goes one way thanks to the presence or absence of the limbic parts of the brain. Nevertheless that affection is strong enough to warrant the relationship. I just think reptiles and amphibians are extremely cool - they don't need to nuzzle up with me or give me anything in return.
I wouldn't go quite that far as to say they're biologically incapable of feeling or of expressing affection. While it certainly isn't the norm outside of birds and mammals, there are well documented reptiles, amphibians, fish, and crustaceans that express complex affection, even for their owners or handlers.

Turtles/tortoises, alligators (as much as any large predator ever will), tegu, terrestrial hermit crabs and coconut crabs, and flowerhorn cichlids are the ones that come to my mind immediately. But you're right in the grand scheme of things, such species are rare exceptions.

I think it's safe to say that these species being more social in nature, either they're more developed in terms of communication than their more solitary relatives, or they're already using cues that are easier for us to interact with.

billharrison

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Re: When you have to have that difficult conversation...
« Reply #23 on: February 24, 2017, 05:13:04 PM »
As a herp keeper, the affection only goes one way thanks to the presence or absence of the limbic parts of the brain. Nevertheless that affection is strong enough to warrant the relationship. I just think reptiles and amphibians are extremely cool - they don't need to nuzzle up with me or give me anything in return.
I wouldn't go quite that far as to say they're biologically incapable of feeling or of expressing affection. While it certainly isn't the norm outside of birds and mammals, there are well documented reptiles, amphibians, fish, and crustaceans that express complex affection, even for their owners or handlers.

Turtles/tortoises, alligators (as much as any large predator ever will), tegu, terrestrial hermit crabs and coconut crabs, and flowerhorn cichlids are the ones that come to my mind immediately. But you're right in the grand scheme of things, such species are rare exceptions.

I think it's safe to say that these species being more social in nature, either they're more developed in terms of communication than their more solitary relatives, or they're already using cues that are easier for us to interact with.

I live near Chicago. Years ago there was a story in the Chicago Tribune that got my attention. It seems a family had purchased a baby alligator and raised it as a housepet. At the time of the story it was ABOUT 6 FEET LONG. It was housebroken, had it's own bathtub to soak in, and SLEPT WITH THEIR SMALL CHILDREN at night. Supposedly it was affectionate, and enjoyed the company of these children and their friends. The county made them get rid of it.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2017, 05:16:38 PM by billharrison »

Derek.McManus

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Re: When you have to have that difficult conversation...
« Reply #24 on: February 24, 2017, 06:02:35 PM »
It might be just me but I do find the idea of a six foot alligator around children though I'm sure that if it grew up around the family it would have been domesticated to some extent!

CityRaptor

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Re: When you have to have that difficult conversation...
« Reply #25 on: February 24, 2017, 06:22:28 PM »
Things like that are one of the reasons why I think of Owen's "tame" Raptors in JW as possible. He is the one who raised them and they show him their affection. It's also pretty clear that he can get that close because of that, while they would rip most other people to shreds.
Jurassic Park is frightning in the dark
All the dinosaurs are running wild
Someone let T. Rex out of his pen
I'm afraid those things'll harm me
'Cause they sure don't act like Barney
And they think that I'm their dinner, not their friend
Oh no

stargatedalek

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Re: When you have to have that difficult conversation...
« Reply #26 on: February 24, 2017, 06:27:40 PM »
While mildly eccentric, it's far safer than something like a chimpanzee. Interacting with a tame gator is one thing, I've seen ones at conventions that would even let very small children sit on them, but it's never safe to sleep with an animal regardless of what it is, it's a miracle it didn't smoother them accidentally in its sleep. Still not fair they were forced to relinquish the animal, it's not like there's any risk of them becoming invasive in Chicago. I hope it went to an educational facility and wasn't euthanized.

Derek.McManus

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Re: When you have to have that difficult conversation...
« Reply #27 on: February 24, 2017, 06:34:06 PM »
My understanding as a layman is that chimpanzees are a very dangerous animal with the physical strength to literally pull a human being to pieces! Not a pleasant thought!