Knock-off figures - general discussion

[triceratops83]

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/New-Hard-Plastic-Cartoon-Animal-Triceratops-Figures-Set-Toy-Kid-/181597488010?pt=AU_Action_Figures&hash=item2a480dc38a

Even the poor little Schleich got ripped off.

[triceratops83]

The most insulting part is that the ripoffs are all getting sold at the same price as their victim figures.

[Sim]

Geoworld receives no sympathy from me, Papo however, deserves better than having their rex shown on the same box as Geoworld bootlegs

That's a double standard!

he-he, I suppose in a way one could say the Papo rex is taken from JP, but I feel thats done more as a deliberate homage as opposed to Geoworlds laziness

I remember reading a post on the Dinosaur Toy Forum a while ago which I think said that apparently Papo's sculptor had said they didn't know about prehistoric animal anatomy, and so they would go with what they feel is best.  Both Papo and Geoworld have copied designs made by other people, so I don't think it's fair they're treated differently in regards to figures based directly on other people's work.  I hadn't thought of looking at Papo's figures as homages...  But I think it's laziness in Papo's case too.  I'm not convinced their figures are homages to Jurassic Park, Sideshow, and the other artists' work they based their figures on.

[stargatedalek]

I hadn't heard that (at least they admit it), do you have any links to this? I'm curious

[SBell]

Geoworld receives no sympathy from me, Papo however, deserves better than having their rex shown on the same box as Geoworld bootlegs

That's a double standard!

he-he, I suppose in a way one could say the Papo rex is taken from JP, but I feel thats done more as a deliberate homage as opposed to Geoworlds laziness

I remember reading a post on the Dinosaur Toy Forum a while ago which I think said that apparently Papo's sculptor had said they didn't know about prehistoric animal anatomy, and so they would go with what they feel is best.  Both Papo and Geoworld have copied designs made by other people, so I don't think it's fair they're treated differently in regards to figures based directly on other people's work.  I hadn't thought of looking at Papo's figures as homages...  But I think it's laziness in Papo's case too.  I'm not convinced their figures are homages to Jurassic Park, Sideshow, and the other artists' work they based their figures on.

I remember seeing the same thing. And Papo are certainly not 'homages' because there is no reference or credit given in any sense--their sculptor, who is clearly talented, found images of JP or Sideshow animals and reproduced it in toy form (why else would the Pteranodon have teeth? Because it is a direct copy). Papo gets a pass by people, as best as I can tell, because people like JP dinos. Which isn't much of a reason.

And the Papo rex (especially) shows up in use on a lot of books and packaging--it seems to be a common photo and lazy designers are all too happy to just use the Papo dino pictures.

[stargatedalek]

I think they more often get a pass because they are still not as "direct" knock-offs as some other brands, they take their "inspiration" a might to far but at least they aren't directly copying molds or art and do include some originality, the same goes for Chap Mei

oh yes, the Papo rex shows up on practically everything
I only mentioned the Papo rex to add humour anyway, the point of the discovery were the Geoworld
(that's not to say that this discussion that stemmed from it isn't relevant or quite enlightening )

[Sim]

I remember seeing the same thing. And Papo are certainly not 'homages' because there is no reference or credit given in any sense--their sculptor, who is clearly talented, found images of JP or Sideshow animals and reproduced it in toy form (why else would the Pteranodon have teeth? Because it is a direct copy). Papo gets a pass by people, as best as I can tell, because people like JP dinos. Which isn't much of a reason.

And the Papo rex (especially) shows up in use on a lot of books and packaging--it seems to be a common photo and lazy designers are all too happy to just use the Papo dino pictures.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who remembers that!   I completely agree with the rest of your post too SBell.

I think they more often get a pass because they are still not as "direct" knock-offs as some other brands, they take their "inspiration" a might to far but at least they aren't directly copying molds or art and do include some originality, the same goes for Chap Mei

oh yes, the Papo rex shows up on practically everything
I only mentioned the Papo rex to add humour anyway, the point of the discovery were the Geoworld
(that's not to say that this discussion that stemmed from it isn't relevant or quite enlightening )

Papo is directly copying art (Jurassic Park's prehistoric animals are a form of art) and models like Sideshow though.  Their rearing Tyrannosaurus is a copy of JP's down to the pose:
Their Velociraptor, Triceratops, Spinosaurus, Pteranodon and Pachycephalosaurus are also all copies of JP's.  Their Carnotaurus and Dilophosaurus are based on Sideshow's.  The Papo Pachyrhinosaurus is based on Disney's.
The Papo Tylosaurus...

Papo Tylosaurus?

I think Papo get a pass by people because they like Papo's figures, and since they don't like Geoworld's which often don't look great, they don't give Geoworld a pass.  I might be wrong, but I think this is often what's happening.  I agree that this discussion is interesting.  Which leads me to...

I hadn't heard that (at least they admit it), do you have any links to this? I'm curious

It was from a few years ago, when I followed the Dinosaur Toy Blog and Forum but only commented on the blog.  I managed to find it!  It was on the old Dinosaur Toy Forum: http://dinotoyforum.proboards.com/thread/3391/which-dinos-papo-on?page=2&scrollTo=85546  It's mentioned right at the end of the post.  I found something else quite interesting, the Papo dinosaur sculptor confirms he recycled the Papo Pachyrhinosaurus body for the Papo Styracosaurus (I think there was a disagreement on here about this?) and for the Papo Styracosaurus' neck and head design, he says the Sideshow Styracosaurus was a reference but he tried his best not to copy it exactly: http://dinotoyforum.proboards.com/post/92530/thread

[DinoLord]

I think part of why Papo usually gets a pass is because their copies are mainly of Jurassic Park, a universally known franchise. While it's still copyright infringement and legally reprehensible, it does seem to me more innocent to copy a franchise that has been around for years and is essentially responsible for the modern public image of dinosaurs than to copy small-time independent artists. I feel the latter is more malicious; it just seems like it would take GeoWorld some effort to actually go out of their way and find their "inspiration" that could be used to creating original designs.

[SBell]

I think part of why Papo usually gets a pass is because their copies are mainly of Jurassic Park, a universally known franchise. While it's still copyright infringement and legally reprehensible, it does seem to me more innocent to copy a franchise that has been around for years and is essentially responsible for the modern public image of dinosaurs than to copy small-time independent artists. I feel the latter is more malicious; it just seems like it would take GeoWorld some effort to actually go out of their way and find their "inspiration" that could be used to creating original designs.

So it's less reprehensible to take well-established designs of a single source and re-sell them than to take inspiration from various sources and re-sell those? It sounds more like a double standard just to justify purchases of 'JP' figures when none were coming out. Keeping in miind that the franchise is 20 years old NOW, but the first dinos showed up in 2001 or so--before JPIII even came out.

In other words, those copies were made during the franchise's original existence, and whether malicious or not, clearly took advantage of the work of others to increase sales (successfully--the JP Toys forum pretty much treated/treats? JP releases like bonus waves of JP figures--not sure since I haven't been in years).

I'd have to agree wtih TQ--people like Papo because they are faithful recreations of JP movie images, so they are forgiven. GeoWorld, not so much, so they take the brunt of the ire, but I am pretty sure I know which company has been established for almost 15 years on the back of movie-monster copies.

[Manatee]

I thought Papo first made a dinosaur in 2005?

[DinoLord]

It's still malicious for sure.

I just see making knockoffs of designs that have been pervasive in popular culture for years to be slightly less worse than knocking off work from small-time independent artists. The first is pretty easy to fall into, while with the second one it gives a bit of impression that they're actively seeking out artists whose work will be less recognized and not get caught for it. And the independent artists GeoWorld knocks off could sure use the royalties and proper crediting more than a big company like Universal could.

Ultimately in any case knocking off other's designs is morally reprehensible and illegal (in most countries at least). But in my opinion what Papo does (or did, as they seem to have stopped with the JP copies) is not quite as bad as what GeoWorld does. I'm glad that they seem to be transitioning towards more original designs.

[Takama]

I thought Papo first made a dinosaur in 2005?

Yes, the only prehistoric cretures they made in 2000 were a mammoth and a couple of cave men

[SBell]

I thought Papo first made a dinosaur in 2005?

Yes, the only prehistoric cretures they made in 2000 were a mammoth and a couple of cave men

That's what it was--but given lead times, they were probably sculpting them in 2003 or so. So just in time to be inspired by JPIII for designs.

[Takama]

You might be right. Sbell     Papo Released  there first Animal Figures in 2004, and the Dinosaurs came out the following year.  Its possible that they had them planned back in 2003

[Sim]

It's still malicious for sure.

I just see making knockoffs of designs that have been pervasive in popular culture for years to be slightly less worse than knocking off work from small-time independent artists. The first is pretty easy to fall into, while with the second one it gives a bit of impression that they're actively seeking out artists whose work will be less recognized and not get caught for it. And the independent artists GeoWorld knocks off could sure use the royalties and proper crediting more than a big company like Universal could.

Ultimately in any case knocking off other's designs is morally reprehensible and illegal (in most countries at least). But in my opinion what Papo does (or did, as they seem to have stopped with the JP copies) is not quite as bad as what GeoWorld does. I'm glad that they seem to be transitioning towards more original designs.

I think Geoworld is just using whatever they find suits them most, hence why they used a photo of the Wild Safari Liopleurodon.  I can't remember exactly where they used it, I think it was on their catologue or the packaging of a figure?  Papo isn't only using designs well-known in popular culture though.  I don't know much about Sideshow as a company, but I'm guessing they would benefit from royalties and proper crediting for the models Papo used to make some of their toys.  The same applies to the artist of the Tylosaurus picture the Papo Tylo was based on.


The first picture is what Papo's Oviraptor originally looked like.  The second picture is an Oviraptor by Julius Csotonyi.  Shortly before it was released, the Papo Oviraptor had its colour scheme changed.  I wouldn't be surprised if it was to remove a connection to Julius Csotonyi's work which it was based on.  I'm guessing he'd benefit from proper credit and compensation.  Brett Booth made an interesting post wondering whether Papo had used some of his own designs: http://demonpuppy.blogspot.co.uk/2010/02/am-i-being-paranoid.html

Papo is still using other people's work for their toys, the Papo baby Triceratops is a copy of JP's, and the Papo Dilophosaurus is based on Sideshow's.

[TJ_Terrorsaur]

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/New-Hard-Plastic-Cartoon-Animal-Triceratops-Figures-Set-Toy-Kid-/181597488010?pt=AU_Action_Figures&hash=item2a480dc38a

Even the poor little Schleich got ripped off.

They're not the only ones. Holy Stone is doing it too. http://tinyurl.com/pl9l4ly (sorry went through tinyurl to make the link shorter)

[laticauda]

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/New-Hard-Plastic-Cartoon-Animal-Triceratops-Figures-Set-Toy-Kid-/181597488010?pt=AU_Action_Figures&hash=item2a480dc38a

Even the poor little Schleich got ripped off.

They're not the only ones. Holy Stone is doing it too. http://tinyurl.com/pl9l4ly (sorry went through tinyurl to make the link shorter)

On Ebay, if you type in Dinosaur toy, start with the cheapest first, and what pops up.  Holy Stone Knock off, Holy Stone Knock off, Holy Stone Knock off, Holy Stone Knock off, Holy Stone Knock off, its incredible. 

[TJ_Terrorsaur]

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/New-Hard-Plastic-Cartoon-Animal-Triceratops-Figures-Set-Toy-Kid-/181597488010?pt=AU_Action_Figures&hash=item2a480dc38a

Even the poor little Schleich got ripped off.

They're not the only ones. Holy Stone is doing it too. http://tinyurl.com/pl9l4ly (sorry went through tinyurl to make the link shorter)

On Ebay, if you type in Dinosaur toy, start with the cheapest first, and what pops up.  Holy Stone Knock off, Holy Stone Knock off, Holy Stone Knock off, Holy Stone Knock off, Holy Stone Knock off, its incredible.

Yes yes it is. I came across "their" Giganotosaurus they didn't even bother going with a different color scheme, if they did they just made the figure brighter.
Also http://tinyurl.com/JPraptorripoff Don't know what company it's from.

[triceratops83]

Even the name "Holy Stone" sounds pretentious and annoying, like they're going for something classy to hide the fact that they're a bunch of crooks.

[TJ_Terrorsaur]

...Hmm I didn't consider that before.  It could be that, or they just thought up a name, who knows. All I do know is it's aggrivating, I've had friend who hand make beautiful plushies and now their designs too are being stolen and sold.

http://tinyurl.com/papoallosaurusripoff Another Papo Ripoff

And another Jurassic Park toy ripoff
http://tinyurl.com/JPripoff