Author Topic: Looking for Carnegie Stegosaurus  (Read 722 times)

Ikessauro

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Looking for Carnegie Stegosaurus
« on: September 18, 2019, 08:39:08 PM »
Hey guys. I have been trying to hunt down some less common Carnegie Collection Variants in the last few weeks. I am looking right now for this variant of the Stegosaurus. I have one like this, except the plates are not white. I want one like the picture, with almost pure white plates without the dark wash on top, making them brownish. If you have one in good condition and are willing to sell, I can pay via paypal.


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Re: Looking for Carnegie Stegosaurus
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2019, 11:08:46 PM »
I don't think I've ever seen this variant. You do have a penchant for rarities, huh?
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Re: Looking for Carnegie Stegosaurus
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2019, 07:52:04 AM »
it looks like a repaint honestly ,notice the smeared white blotches at the base of the smaller plates for instance? If its a variant its one I have never seen and ive had dozens of this model pass through my hands over the years.
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Re: Looking for Carnegie Stegosaurus
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2019, 01:21:13 PM »
You do have a penchant for rarities, huh?

Hehe  a little bit  ;D

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Re: Looking for Carnegie Stegosaurus
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2019, 01:22:02 PM »
it looks like a repaint honestly ,notice the smeared white blotches at the base of the smaller plates for instance? If its a variant its one I have never seen and ive had dozens of this model pass through my hands over the years.

I have seen at least three "specimens" of this variant. The one in this picture, another two on eBay (one glued to a mountain) that can't be sold separately and one I missed the chance to bid on, which was in a dinosaur lot.

Here's another example of this variant.


It also appears as the pic on the Stego tag, so I assume it was the first release, closer in color to the prototype.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2019, 02:43:05 PM by Ikessauro »

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Re: Looking for Carnegie Stegosaurus
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2019, 08:03:32 AM »
I took the time to check my own store model Carnegie mountain that has the original figures and nametags attached, and it is quite normal ...I then checked multiple examples of the brochure itself. To my eyes, and in my own opinion you are simply seeing the artifacts of an overflashed image. It is rather obvious in the Carnegie mountain shot, and simply using an edit program to lower the extreme light level alters the figure to look as it should. Still it makes you wonder how a variant could hide out there for 30 some years and not be known...
best luck hunting regardless


One other thought, weren't the carnegies during tbis time period all painted single colors with contrasting colors painted over, which would mean of necessity the default color would not be white regardless?
Authors with varying competence have suggested dinosaurs disappeared because of meteorites...God's will, raids by little green hunters in flying saucers, lack of standing room in Noah's Ark, and palaeoweltschmerz—Glenn Jepsen


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Re: Looking for Carnegie Stegosaurus
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2019, 08:14:33 AM »
Another obvious issue with the mountain you pictured is it isn't factory original nor correct. The stegosaurus should be on the lower empty shelf behind the elasmosaurus  but was apparently moved along with some of the others as well
Authors with varying competence have suggested dinosaurs disappeared because of meteorites...God's will, raids by little green hunters in flying saucers, lack of standing room in Noah's Ark, and palaeoweltschmerz—Glenn Jepsen


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Re: Looking for Carnegie Stegosaurus
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2019, 01:16:14 PM »
@amargasaurus cazaui  Man, you sure are hard to convince huh?  ;D

« Last Edit: September 27, 2019, 01:16:38 PM by Ikessauro »

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Re: Looking for Carnegie Stegosaurus
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2019, 02:03:32 PM »
@amargasaurus cazaui  Man, you sure are hard to convince huh?  ;D


If the video convinced you awesome..happy hunting. I am not buying it.....myself. Every aspect of the model as he handled it screams repaint...even the magic marker looking details of the face. Since you don't know the origin or backstory to his piece to somehow assume you were shown some unique rarity seems....odd. I glanced over on ebay…...a search for Carnegie Stegosaurus yielded 25 separate sales......not one with the markings you mentioned.
Authors with varying competence have suggested dinosaurs disappeared because of meteorites...God's will, raids by little green hunters in flying saucers, lack of standing room in Noah's Ark, and palaeoweltschmerz—Glenn Jepsen


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Re: Looking for Carnegie Stegosaurus
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2019, 05:37:13 PM »
@amargasaurus cazaui  Man, you sure are hard to convince huh?  ;D


If the video convinced you awesome..happy hunting. I am not buying it.....myself. Every aspect of the model as he handled it screams repaint...even the magic marker looking details of the face. Since you don't know the origin or backstory to his piece to somehow assume you were shown some unique rarity seems....odd. I glanced over on ebay…...a search for Carnegie Stegosaurus yielded 25 separate sales......not one with the markings you mentioned.

Of course there are none on eBay. If there were, I wouldn't be here asking for one... Actually, there is ONE in there, the one in the mountain you claim is distorted by the camera flash.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Safari-Ltd-Carnegie-Collection-Dinosaur-dealers-display-WITH-dinosaurs-RARE/123703583792?hash=item1ccd4ee430:g:398AAOSwaB5XurIN

But hey, you don't have to believe me. I just don't think coincidently three separate people in different places decided to repaint the same dinosaur in the exact same manner, just to be sold. One of them being sold glued to a store display mountain and other one being sold in a dinosaur lot.

 I didn't even say it is a rarity, I am only asking here because i didn't find one on ebay right now. Since in the past month or so I have seen two already, I assume it is a factory paint variation that is less common. Just a result of the variation during years of production. Like the Papo Stegosaurus which started with plates having white markings, then brown markings then no markins at all.

I only realized the existence of this variant recently browsing ebay trying to complete my Carnegie set. I may not know the complete backstory about it, but I'm trying to uncover more information everyday.  The owner of that Stegosaurus if I'm not mistaken is @Dinoguy2 and he could bring some information regarding it being a repaint or not. If it is a repaint, no problem. I just think there's plenty of evidence to the contrary.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2019, 05:39:34 PM by Ikessauro »

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Re: Looking for Carnegie Stegosaurus
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2019, 05:48:09 PM »
I personally bought the white plate model at retail in the mid 90s. Unless somebody at the mall was repainting Carnegie figures it's legit, lol.

This was the first color vinyl Stegosaurus. I remember buying it at Noodle Kidoodle about the same time as the revised Allosaurus first appeared. ( I also bought an unglued mountain from them when they went out of business). Presumably, they quickly dropped the white paint to save money. Lots of late 90s Carnegies have simplified paint operations.

As for the position on the mountain display, keep in mind the position of the models was changed often, and some mountains shipped with loose models that the retailer could stick wherever they wanted.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2019, 05:50:59 PM by Dinoguy2 »
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« Last Edit: September 27, 2019, 06:08:27 PM by Ikessauro »

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Re: Looking for Carnegie Stegosaurus
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2019, 06:21:41 PM »
Thanks for the clarification @Dinoguy2

I also manage to find the ended auction from eBay where I saw the other "specimen' like this.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Safari-Carnegie-Collection-Dinosaur-Lot-Brachiosaurus-Dilophosaurus-/113818179214?ul_noapp=true&nma=true&si=uq7YlA0TUuo%252BDqS7gcAfcdsTgbM%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557




Yeah, they do crop up occasionally. I've seen a few on eBay over the last few months. I'd just set a saved search and be patient...

Edit: It's also interesting that this one in the auction has the new style tag, with a plastic zip tie. I've seen plenty of the brown-plated version with the old style gold elastic string. I'm assuming both variants must have been available at the same time with some white-plated ones shipping later from old stock along with the newer brown plated ones, though I don't remember what tag mine originally had.

It's also possible the gold-thread tags on the ones I've seen are not original to those figures but taken from older figures and added by the seller to increase the value.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2019, 08:27:40 PM by Dinoguy2 »
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Re: Looking for Carnegie Stegosaurus
« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2019, 08:32:42 PM »
Dinoguy thanks for sharing your experience.  I can tell you that much like you I bought my own models directly at retail and was able to choose from dozens of stegosaurus, none which matched the one seen here. I can also tell you I have at least a dozen here, have sold or traded many more and have at least two copies of the model sent to me by the woman who sculpted the pieces, Forest Rogers.
Three years ago on a trip to Colorado I stopped at the Museum of Nature and Science in Denver, as well as the Sternberg and both had crowded displays of Carnegie models...many stegosaurus, but none like this either.


Strangely of the more than 25 listings for Carnegie stegosaurus on ebay not one (1) contains this supposed variant either. It seems odd that noone would be selling one, despite its not being well known or selling for a premium. You would assume a variant would still appear as at least a 1/25 especially one that is unknown



Regarding the mountains, the original mountains were consistent and contained the orignal lineup of models in their given slots. There was a slot for brochures on the front of the piece, which had images of the mountain with the models where they belonged, and it matches the images seen in carnegie catalogs from the time. Also if you ever bought one of these, you would quickly realize they adhered these things so they couldnt move...you will ruin the model before you break it lose.

It was only later as new models appeared and the older ones retired that it became a thing to randomly place the figures as it was always changing from year to year with older pieces being retired and newer ones being made. This is useful when determining if you have an original mountain or one from further down the release....



@Ikessauro I am sorry you felt the need to be so rude and hateful about someone voicing an opinion and feeling the need to make it such a taunting and mocking process. I was stating what I have experienced and truly sorry you only have room for your own opinion. ..I was under the impression you were opening a discussion here rather than attempting to assert you were some form of authority on unknown variants.


"But hey, you don't have to believe me. I just don't think coincidently 25 separate people in different places decided to resell the same dinosaur in the exact same manner, and not one matches your described one"    so happy hunting and good luck.
Authors with varying competence have suggested dinosaurs disappeared because of meteorites...God's will, raids by little green hunters in flying saucers, lack of standing room in Noah's Ark, and palaeoweltschmerz—Glenn Jepsen


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Re: Looking for Carnegie Stegosaurus
« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2019, 10:03:29 PM »
@Ikessauro I am sorry you felt the need to be so rude and hateful about someone voicing an opinion and feeling the need to make it such a taunting and mocking process. I was stating what I have experienced and truly sorry you only have room for your own opinion. ..I was under the impression you were opening a discussion here rather than attempting to assert you were some form of authority on unknown variants.


"But hey, you don't have to believe me. I just don't think coincidently 25 separate people in different places decided to resell the same dinosaur in the exact same manner, and not one matches your described one"    so happy hunting and good luck.

To be honest, I never intended to be rude or mock you. If I came across as rude, I apologize. English is not my first language and sometimes things get lost in translation.

On the other hand, I too felt or had the impression you were being a bit presumptuous here. I simply made a "WANTED" thread to state I am looking for the variant. I had found proof it existed. I liked it and decided to hunt one down for myself. I didn't need your approval of authenticity or anything like that. But you offered your opinion. I replied with mine. To me it's you that can't stand another person's opinion, because it goes against your experience.

Bear in mind that you sounded a bit rude to me too. Your comments were stating that if you had never seen it, had never found one or had one before, it must be a fake. That is quite presumptuous. Put yourself in my shoes. You didn't bring any evidence other than that, and although I don't think you are lying, I think you just didn't consider the bigger picture here.

Take the Papo Brown Running Tyrannosaurus for instance (before the re-release this year). It came out for a short period in 2011 in only two stores as far as we know. Sold for less than two months in one store in France and one in Canada. Some collectors manage to get it online back then. But the majority of collectors and kids out there that like Papo, but don't use the forum or buy online very often, may have never heard of it. They may have been to dozens of stores and collected all Papo catalogs, and they wouldn't have know about it. It never appeared in catalogs. They may have had dozens of copies of the green one, but never had a clue a brown variant existed. You could search ebay for it for months and months and not a single copy would appear for sale. That gives the person the impression that the only existing Papo Running T.rex is the green one. They could eventually see one and assume it was a bootleg or a repaint. That is what you did here with the Stegosaurus.
But your problem seems to be with this part of my post:

"But hey, you don't have to believe me. I just don't think coincidently three separate people in different places decided to repaint the same dinosaur in the exact same manner, just to be sold. One of them being sold glued to a store display mountain and other one being sold in a dinosaur lot."

I stand for what I said. And I didn't say it with intention of offending you. But I wanted to make myself clear. I really think three examples of the same figure, appearing on separate places, from different owners all unrelated to each other, is proof of it being a real variant. To me that is proof. But since we had started a discussion on the subject, and you cast some doubts on the originality of the figure, I'd invited @Dinoguy2 to comment and bring more info to the table.

He did. And in the meantime, I found more pictures of it. I thought I was being helpful bringing people's attention to this variant. Instead of seeying that you assumed I was being arrogant and kept using the same argument. You have seen lots of Stegosauruses, none like this, so it's not real.

In my opinion the issue here is that you didn't consider the exact time you bought/seen your models.
Of course an early release model isn't going to appear in stores years later. You said in your last post, that three years ago you stopped at a store and despite it being packed full of Stegosauruses, none were like that. But consider the time. 2016 or so. The model came out twenty years ago, in 1996! The first runs of it were sold out long ago. And we know Safari Ltd. changed the paint application on their Carnegie dinos in multiple occasions. They simplified the paint application in the later runs of the collection.

Going now (or three years ago) to a store looking for this variant of the dinosaur is looking for a rusty old needle in a haystack. Do you see the 1988 variant of the T.rex in the stores recently? I don't think so. Why would an early variant of this Stegosaurus be available then? It wouldn't. Maybe several collectors have had this variation but never noticed much difference between it and later ones. Or they did notice but didn't care enough to let the collector community know. Who knows. But calling me rude because I have shown evidence that contradicts your opinion is a bit unfair.
 
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« Last Edit: September 27, 2019, 10:05:47 PM by Ikessauro »

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Re: Looking for Carnegie Stegosaurus
« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2019, 10:22:14 PM »
Dinoguy thanks for sharing your experience.  I can tell you that much like you I bought my own models directly at retail and was able to choose from dozens of stegosaurus, none which matched the one seen here. I can also tell you I have at least a dozen here, have sold or traded many more and have at least two copies of the model sent to me by the woman who sculpted the pieces, Forest Rogers.
Three years ago on a trip to Colorado I stopped at the Museum of Nature and Science in Denver, as well as the Sternberg and both had crowded displays of Carnegie models...many stegosaurus, but none like this either.


Strangely of the more than 25 listings for Carnegie stegosaurus on ebay not one (1) contains this supposed variant either. It seems odd that noone would be selling one, despite its not being well known or selling for a premium. You would assume a variant would still appear as at least a 1/25 especially one that is unknown

That is strange. I didn't think this particular variant was very rare until I saw this thread, but then again I hadn't really been looking. Like I said, I had purchased my mountain from a store going out of business. Their models were not glued down but the figure name labels were attached. The newest figure on it is Psittacosaurus which makes me think it comes from 1998 or 1999, which is about the time I bought it. Now, I know they had that display in the store before that. So Safari must have been continuously providing new labels as new figures came out (or else the store got a new display right before closing).

I have a catalog from 1993 that was selling a mountain with no replicas on it direct to consumer. So it's also possible people glued their own models to these in random order, though I have no idea what kind of maniac would do that! Maybe a smaller retailer who bought an empty mountain that was within kid reaching distance.

Quote
Regarding the mountains, the original mountains were consistent and contained the orignal lineup of models in their given slots. There was a slot for brochures on the front of the piece, which had images of the mountain with the models where they belonged, and it matches the images seen in carnegie catalogs from the time. Also if you ever bought one of these, you would quickly realize they adhered these things so they couldnt move...you will ruin the model before you break it lose.
Right you are. I have several models that were formerly glued down that are quite damaged. And my Elasmosaur has missing paint on the bottom. When I bought that, the employee ripped it off the display because the store was out of stock.

Quote
It was only later as new models appeared and the older ones retired that it became a thing to randomly place the figures as it was always changing from year to year with older pieces being retired and newer ones being made. This is useful when determining if you have an original mountain or one from further down the release....



@Ikessauro I am sorry you felt the need to be so rude and hateful about someone voicing an opinion and feeling the need to make it such a taunting and mocking process. I was stating what I have experienced and truly sorry you only have room for your own opinion. ..I was under the impression you were opening a discussion here rather than attempting to assert you were some form of authority on unknown variants.


"But hey, you don't have to believe me. I just don't think coincidently 25 separate people in different places decided to resell the same dinosaur in the exact same manner, and not one matches your described one"    so happy hunting and good luck.

I understand the skepticism about odd variants. I had the same experience with some which I'm not convinced aren't repaints or bootlegs. I don't know why this white plate variant is so rare, but I know it exists because I bought one and can't fathom how a repainted model that has popped up multiple times online would have ended up at a mall retailer in the 90s.

Here's a random hypothesis: What if these were catalog photo samples or prototypes that were mainly reused for just the mountain display but not general release? Could explain why they are hard to find (most are glued down or damaged) and why I have mine (my store had an unglued display and was closing, so would have sold their display models just like they sold me their actual display). This would put it in the same league as the "catalog versions" of the original 10 models, like the yellow spotted T rex and dark gray Allosaurus. There are no eBay listings for those right now and I can tell you there haven't been for the past few months at least. Yet they do exist...

The other thing to consider when looking at eBay listings is production time. The standard Steg would have been in production from 1996-2006, or ten years. If the white version was a short lived early variant, it may have been in production for a year or less before they changed and simplified the paint ops. So it would be far more uncommon and just like the first gen variants, you won't be able to just hop on eBay at any time and find it. It took me months of watching saved searches before I saw a listing for the original Apatosaurus, and that was in production for at least three years from 1988 to 1990.

But I honestly don't think the white plate Steg is as rare as that. I know I've seen it on eBay a few times recently, and not the same listings posted here. If you've never seen it before I'd chalk it up to bad luck rather than some kind of fakery or photo artifacts or something.

On a related note, that's amazing that Forest Rogers personally send you models! Do you happen to know if she sculpted the orange Steg? In her PT interview she listed that as one she wanted a second chance at sculpting, but I was thinking, didn't she do two versions...? Or was the orange one a factory-level "refresh"? That would be odd since the sculpt is so different.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2019, 10:40:59 PM by Dinoguy2 »
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amargasaurus cazaui

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Re: Looking for Carnegie Stegosaurus
« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2019, 03:49:21 AM »
remember you posted your inquiry into a public discussion forum, a place to talk about and discuss as well as buy and sell. If you felt you have the final word on all things and do not welcome comments that might be something you add in your posts in the future so people with dis-similar experiences avoid sharing their own for you.

I called nothing a fake to begin with, I stated and offered it might be a simple repaint, a retouch.
I also find your supposed proof questionable in light of the overlighting present in the images provided as I clearly explained....what you consider proof I did not, simple enough. Proof would be the ability to independently verify the model exists, by mentions on other collector sites, or examples of the model being sold in any of the dozens of auctions on ebay which it of course is not.

  Dinoguys comments and so forth for me hold different merit, he is a member here and says he bought one firsthand
               "it looks like a repaint honestly ,notice the smeared white blotches at the base of the smaller plates for instance? If its a variant its one I have never seen and ive had dozens of this model pass through my hands over the years."

that was my original comment....indeed how presumptous and rude of me...I did not state you are not allowed to search for it, nor did I state you required my blessing to proceed. I simply shared my experiences ....
  Your first response right out the gate was...."@amargasaurus cazaui  Man, you sure are hard to convince huh?  "  mocking and taunting

As far as timing so you kind of understand, I am old enough I bought these models new from retail like anyone else in the eighties and nineties, as well as visiting perhaps a dozen museums ACROSS MANY YEARS and never encountering an example like yours. I spent perhaps ten years in the mid nineties to early 2000's buying and selling dinosaur figures on ebay in lots ....I bought thousands and sold and traded them for profit. later I joined this forum and began trading and buying from various members as well as interacting with Dan russo and Forest Rogers, the sculpters for the two lines I was able to track down .....so across a large cross section of time I have handled and dealt with dozens of specimens of the model and never found nor seen one at all ...your rusty needle in a haystack is not a solid example sorry.

I also did not call you rude for showing evidence that contradicts my opinion...straw man argument. I called you rude, because you responded rudely. I will know in the future you consider your opinion the final have all and be all and will never post anything in response to your comments again. Happy hunting, enjoy yourself, and I hope you find a nice model for your collection.

Authors with varying competence have suggested dinosaurs disappeared because of meteorites...God's will, raids by little green hunters in flying saucers, lack of standing room in Noah's Ark, and palaeoweltschmerz—Glenn Jepsen


Ikessauro

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Re: Looking for Carnegie Stegosaurus
« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2019, 04:25:20 AM »
Quote
  Your first response right out the gate was...  Man, you sure are hard to convince huh?  "  mocking and taunting


That's the part you found offensive? I genuinely wrote that thinking it would sound funny or playful. I even was smiling when I did it, happy someone had replied to my thread. I never intended to mock or taunt you. I guess our cultural and linguistic  differences played a role here in conveying the wrong message.
 

As far as proof, you are right to prefer verify yourself. Maybe I just didn't interpret your opinion correctly as I think you didn't interpret my comments with the intent I had in mind.


I most definitely don't have the final word on anything. Nor I am trying to have. I do not wish to be a know it all and as everyone here I am willing to learn. I think our misunderstanding here was mostly caused by my inability of grasping your intentions with the way you expressed yourself. Maybe I tried to be funny when I wasn't supposed to be. I don't wish to hold any grudges against you for this silly situation. Again, I am so sorry if I offended you, feel free to comment on my posts whenever you want, I'll keep an open mind and promess take more time interpreting people's replies.

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Re: Looking for Carnegie Stegosaurus
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2019, 05:16:53 AM »
More than fair then Ikessauro.  I may have misunderstood your intent as well based on your stating English is your second language. I apologize for my part for any misunderstanding I helped create.  Words typed in a box are often easy to.misconstrue and I offer even a person's mood might play into the final outcome.

Lets move past it and.see if we can find this elusive white plated beast for your collection and my own curiousity.
Dinoguy I  will respond to your remarks when my work shift is finished. Thanks for sharing them
Authors with varying competence have suggested dinosaurs disappeared because of meteorites...God's will, raids by little green hunters in flying saucers, lack of standing room in Noah's Ark, and palaeoweltschmerz—Glenn Jepsen


Dinoguy2

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Re: Looking for Carnegie Stegosaurus
« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2019, 10:35:05 AM »
Another obvious issue with the mountain you pictured is it isn't factory original nor correct. The stegosaurus should be on the lower empty shelf behind the elasmosaurus  but was apparently moved along with some of the others as well

I don't want to belabor the point, but I want to also add quickly that there are catalog photos of Dinosaur Mountain that have Stegosaurus in the place the eBay photo shows, though I guess this could have been an unglued example (the one in my 1993 catalog has it in yet another spot, but that one is advertised as unglued and shows the models being taken off and played with).




Also, are you sure you meant the empty shelf behind the Elasmosaurus in that pic, not the one with Mosasaurus on it? There's no way the Stegosaurus would fit on the empty one. I currently have my Ankylosaurus on that one and it barely fits.

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