Dead 'Gator

[radman]

That's one big 'gator.  Now it's dead.
http://www.grindtv.com/outdoor/blog/35153/giant+alligator+weighing+nearly+700+pounds+is+a+mississippi+record/

[Takama]

poor thing .   Humans just cant let other cretures be free.

[tyrantqueen]

I don't have a problem with hunting if it done legally, but couldn't they have at least displayed its body in a more respectful manner?

Humans just cant let other cretures be free.

So...when other animals kill each other, it's okay...But when humans do it, it's bad?

[Gwangi]

poor thing .   Humans just cant let other cretures be free.

Well that may be true on one hand but as the article states..."The recovery of the American alligator in Mississippi from an endangered species to a population that now has reached levels to sustain limited hunting status is a true wildlife conservation success story."

[Gryphoceratops]

As long as its legal i don't see an issue.  Especially since most of those gators are then used for their meat and skin so its not even like its a waste or anything.  I personally wouldn't go out hunting.  I see no fun in it.  But I'm not the sort to judge others who do if its legal.  Many hunters are actually conservationists as well. 

From what I know hunters get permits to kill gators only during a window of time every year and they are only allowed to kill a certain number of them within a size range (of which I don't know). 

[Takama]

I don't have a problem with hunting if it done legally, but couldn't they have at least displayed its body in a more respectful manner?

Humans just cant let other cretures be free.

So...when other animals kill each other, it's okay...But when humans do it, it's bad?

good point

[Yutyrannus]

I don't have a problem with hunting if it done legally, but couldn't they have at least displayed its body in a more respectful manner?

Humans just cant let other cretures be free.

So...when other animals kill each other, it's okay...But when humans do it, it's bad?

good point

That's differnent, other animals usually have a good reason, humans rarely do.

[Gwangi]

I don't have a problem with hunting if it done legally, but couldn't they have at least displayed its body in a more respectful manner?

Humans just cant let other cretures be free.

So...when other animals kill each other, it's okay...But when humans do it, it's bad?

good point

That's differnent, other animals usually have a good reason, humans rarely do.

Some animals yes, others not so much. There are plenty of other species that enjoy killing other animals, mostly the more intelligent species. It comes with the territory I guess. Anyone that has ever had a cat kill a mouse will tell you the cat had a hell of a lot of fun doing it. You also have to consider that some animals commit equally atrocious acts like infanticide as one example. We're really not that different from the rest of the animal kingdom. We just have the ability to choose between what we think (or know) is right and our instincts. For some people that is easier than it is for some.
I'm not a fan of trophy hunting. I think if you're going to kill something the primary reason should be for food. I have a complicated history with killing animals. I was a vegetarian for 10 years, now I'm a hunter. I hate killing things and knowing that I've ended a life but on the other hand I do enjoy doing it and while I don't enjoy having killed something I definatly feel a "trill" in the process. It is a very strange feeling but I'm certain that trill I feel is instinctual and something passed on from my hunting ancestors. You can't blame people for giving into these instincts anymore than you can a dog. We as humans however understand things like compassion, humanity, suffering, conservation and I think anyone that hunts should practice these ethics even if the intent is to kill. I don't know that I could kill an alligator as a trophy but I can't fault them for wanting to do it. That said I would have preferred to see this impressive specimen alive. It is difficult to turn off millions of years of instincts. Anyone without them living in the wild only thousands of years ago would be picked off quickly by natural selection. Anyway, I guess I'm off my soapbox now.

[tyrantqueen]

That's differnent, other animals usually have a good reason, humans rarely do.

I agree mostly with what Gwangi said. I would prefer that the hunted animal is actually used for something instead of just something to brag over. Nonetheless, if people want to do it, and they do it legally and with respect to the animal, then I have no problem whatsoever.

I personally don't hunt, but my dad was an outsdoorsman who hunted with dogs, killing rats, rabbits, and shooting real pigeons. The dogs enjoyed what they were doing, and had no reservation about killing any number of animals they could.

Isn't enjoyment of the hunt a valid enough reason? Other animals kill for pleasure too. Cats, wolves, weasels, dolphins etc all have been observed doing this.

Wow, this topic could veer into very dangerous waters if the OP isn't careful

[s.foulkes]

Hunting to manage population in a certain area is nessasary ,this allows that species the assurity that they will not over populate or over eat the resources in that area. What i do not like to see is this peticular situation. THat Gator is twice the age of any of the men standing in that photo. IT has avoided being killed or captured this long and has done so within its own enviornment without being a threat to the local human population. I think a little respect for an animal that has survived all that time is due here. IF they are doing it for sport then selling or using the skin and meat ,then do it on gators half his size and age. Taking the life of an animal that has lived 80 years and kill it just for bragging rights and a photo is a waste. Not being a tree hugger here im an outdoorsman although i dont hunt . Just sticks in my gut to see such little thought or concern about the life they are taking when caught up in the thrill of it all. IF this animal was taking out live stock or nabbing children off waters edge then that would be different but this............eh not so much. anyway amazing animal.

[Joel]

I think we may be able to alleviate a lot of our guilt of killing animals and still enjoy the thrill of the hunt if we employ a catch and release method, like with fish. For instance, if the hunters tranquilized the target animal, then get up close and have their pictures taken while the animal is out. Of course, the hunters will have to be educated how to give the right dose for the weight and species of animal, etc.

[amargasaurus cazaui]

Sadly that is where that idea falls apart. Most sportsmen are not going to spend time taking a class learning how to safely sedate their targets, and proper handling, let alone the state or another entity spending the finances to educate. Far easier to just shoot, kill, and eliminate our natural resouces for fun. This is why we as a species exist in the midst of the most massive extinction ever to occurr in the fossil record.

[Gwangi]

Sadly that is where that idea falls apart. Most sportsmen are not going to spend time taking a class learning how to safely sedate their targets, and proper handling, let alone the state or another entity spending the finances to educate. Far easier to just shoot, kill, and eliminate our natural resouces for fun. This is why we as a species exist in the midst of the most massive extinction ever to occurr in the fossil record.

Legal and regulated hunting IS NOT the reason we live in the midst of a mass extinction. Pollution, habitat destruction and over population are what is really doing other species in. These guys hunting an alligator or your everyday man hunting ducks or deer has nothing to do with what you describe. Many species have actually rebounded due to conservation efforts supported by hunting organizations and money gathered by state environmental departments.

[amargasaurus cazaui]

In a perfect world I would say you are right...sadly the world is not perfect. The amount of enforcement needed to regulate so many hunting areas and so many seperate types of hunting alone allows for massive abuse. Abuse that does not get regulated...the slaughter of animals out of season, undersized, or within protected areas or over designed limits is an everyday and constant occurrence in most hunting areas. Each year the budget for patrolling and protecting refuges, hiring wardens and funding to protect these animals is being cut, due to econonic hardship.
  To state hunting is not a factor, and does not contribute is a somewhat rose colored tea cup view. The good and honest hunters are awesome, but all it takes is a single bad seed to undermine so much positive.
  I agree many hunters are honest and upright sportsman that follow the laws, and help to converve and protect our wildlife, but sadly there is also a fringe element that hides within that does things that do lead to mass destruction of wildlife, cruel and inhumane trapping and hunting practices and they do contribute massively to the effect already aggravated by pollution, loss of habitat and so many other ingredients, because they are taking extinction to the protected animals on protected grounds.
   

[Balaur]

I don't understand why people are hunting creatures to extinction. I respect every culture, but we are wiping out species. No, I don't agree with hunting for the fun of it. I didn't like to see that dead gator with people smiling all around it. I see no happiness in that. It actually makes me sad. 

I can go on an on, but I feel very strongly about this. We need to stop mucking our world and actually care once, just once, and I'll be happy. And we haven't done a damned thing to stop this. 

[TheAllosaur]

They're just gettin' bigger. Someday they will get their revenge...

[Takama]

I don't understand why people are hunting creatures to extinction. I respect every culture, but we are wiping out species. No, I don't agree with hunting for the fun of it. I didn't like to see that dead gator with people smiling all around it. I see no happiness in that. It actually makes me sad. 

I can go on an on, but I feel very strongly about this. We need to stop mucking our world and actually care once, just once, and I'll be happy. And we haven't done a damned thing to stop this. 

all animals will go extinct eventuly. hell just look at the non avian dinosaurs

[tyrantqueen]

I don't understand why people are hunting creatures to extinction. I respect every culture, but we are wiping out species. No, I don't agree with hunting for the fun of it. I didn't like to see that dead gator with people smiling all around it. I see no happiness in that. It actually makes me sad. 

I can go on an on, but I feel very strongly about this. We need to stop mucking our world and actually care once, just once, and I'll be happy. And we haven't done a damned thing to stop this. 

The natural world is harsh and brutal. Animals kill each other for fun and food everyday. Just because humans do it, it becomes bad? That seems like a double standard to me. A simple gunshot to the head kills instantly. A komodo dragon will kill a deer in the most slowest, painful way possible, poisoning it with venom and waiting for it to drop from exhaustion and sickness. They also eat their prey alive.

I've hunted before, and I enjoyed it.

all animals will go extinct eventuly. hell just look at the non avian dinosaurs

That was a natural extinction. The dinosaurs were around for millions of years. There is a difference between this, and a whole species being wiped off the planet in a few decades (like the dodo or thylacine)

[Balaur]

I don't understand why people are hunting creatures to extinction. I respect every culture, but we are wiping out species. No, I don't agree with hunting for the fun of it. I didn't like to see that dead gator with people smiling all around it. I see no happiness in that. It actually makes me sad. 

I can go on an on, but I feel very strongly about this. We need to stop mucking our world and actually care once, just once, and I'll be happy. And we haven't done a damned thing to stop this. 

The natural world is harsh and brutal. Animals kill each other for fun and food everyday. Just because humans do it, it becomes bad? That seems like a double standard to me. A simple gunshot to the head kills instantly. A komodo dragon will kill a deer in the most slowest, painful way possible, poisoning it with venom and waiting for it to drop from exhaustion and sickness. They also eat their prey alive.

I've hunted before, and I enjoyed it.

all animals will go extinct eventuly. hell just look at the non avian dinosaurs

That was a natural extinction. The dinosaurs were around for millions of years. There is a difference between this, and a whole species being wiped off the planet in a few decades (like the dodo or thylacine)

I agree. There is nothing wrong to hunt animals, but some cultures kill endangered animals for just there skin or fur. Look at the Amura Leopard. Only 15 exist in the wild. And they are hunted and there habitat is destroyed.

If it is an endangered species I have a problem. If populations are strong and human hunting doesn't damage it, I am fine. It depends on there conservation status.

[Gwangi]

In a perfect world I would say you are right...sadly the world is not perfect. The amount of enforcement needed to regulate so many hunting areas and so many seperate types of hunting alone allows for massive abuse. Abuse that does not get regulated...the slaughter of animals out of season, undersized, or within protected areas or over designed limits is an everyday and constant occurrence in most hunting areas. Each year the budget for patrolling and protecting refuges, hiring wardens and funding to protect these animals is being cut, due to econonic hardship.
To state hunting is not a factor, and does not contribute is a somewhat rose colored tea cup view. The good and honest hunters are awesome, but all it takes is a single bad seed to undermine so much positive.
  I agree many hunters are honest and upright sportsman that follow the laws, and help to converve and protect our wildlife, but sadly there is also a fringe element that hides within that does things that do lead to mass destruction of wildlife, cruel and inhumane trapping and hunting practices and they do contribute massively to the effect already aggravated by pollution, loss of habitat and so many other ingredients, because they are taking extinction to the protected animals on protected grounds.

Just to clear things up I'm talking about the more developed countries, mostly the U.S. as that is where I live. Places like Africa and Asia are another matter all together and illegal hunting for horns, furs or bushmeat and such is not the sort of issue I'm talking about. There are people that abuse hunting regulations, there always are. In places like the U.S. however I think those people are in the minority; hell, hunting itself is declining as a pastime. Most of the hunted species (game animals) are not in any real danger from humans anymore, not those that hunt them anyway. Developers and urban sprawl remain the biggest issue. You can't save a species without land for it to live on and with our population growing like it is it will ultimately be the building of a dam or house that kills off the last of something, not a hunter's bullet. Look at most of the species on the United States endangered species list. They're songbirds, amphibians and reptiles, insects, mussels, fish, small mammals. Animals that aren't typically harvested rather victims of habitat loss, pollution, an invasive species etc.

Most game species are actually doing better than they were in colonial times. Here in NY the season for black bear has just opened up in my county. They're expanding and NY is a state that in the not too distant past had virtually no large game animals left. Beaver were gone, turkeys were gone, even white-tail deer were gone. The American alligator was once hunted to the point where people thought they would never recover. Now they number in the millions. Bald eagles have been removed from the endangered species list, California condors have gone from a population of 20 something in the late eighties to 400 something in modern times. Pumas have been spreading eastward since they were persecuted, wolves are being deliberately re-introduced into states where they have been wiped out. New York itself has been brought up as a possible wolf re-introduction site. Now granted, animals like wolves are having a tough time because of people like those you describe but those people aren't trophy hunters or poachers, they're usually ranchers trying to protect their investment. Pumas are running into issues to...with the human population pushing in on their remaining wilderness, not poachers.
If unscrupulous hunters are running unchecked through America's forests than how can all this be? Again, I realize there are people that break regulations and hunt out of season or take more then they are aloud but I don't think these people are a significant threat to most species in the United States.