Author Topic: Dinosaur Toy production and Slave labor  (Read 760 times)

Brocc21

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Dinosaur Toy production and Slave labor
« on: July 21, 2020, 07:37:54 PM »
https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/china-uighur-hawley-us-companies-bill (Yeah I'm sorry that I'm using Fox and I know that they defiantly have a bias but they were the best one that I could find and as of now the one of the only papers that Ive actually heard of reporting on it. The last one I linked was apparently a pretty unreliable paper that I didn't know too much about. If a different paper that has a less of a bias talks about it ill link to them but it'll do for now.)

For anyone on the forum that's invested in world politics and events, you probably understand that China has some shady practices. And they are a production power house, mainly due to their use of cheap labor. Some of the largest and most well know companies in the US (other countries included but this is more USA specific) like Nike, Apple, Google, and many more profit from the horrid treatment of workers. Recently Republican senator of Missouri Josh Hawley announced a bill to fine companies that rely, and profit off of this slave labor. Now this begs the question, will this impact and companies that we on the forum regularly buy products from? For most of us if we picked up a random figure off our shelves and turned it over, it would probably have the words MADE IN CHINA printed on it. Was this figure produced by a paid factory worker in a safe environment? Or was it made by a worker who is being seriously mistreated and works in poor conditions. I think this is an important topic that we should all probably know more about.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2020, 09:45:33 PM by Brocc21 »
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Loon

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Re: Dinosaur Toy production and Slave labor
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2020, 08:30:25 PM »
Not that slave labor and mistreatment of workers doesn't happen, but next time link a better source than literally the dumbest website on the planet.

Brocc21

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Re: Dinosaur Toy production and Slave labor
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2020, 08:58:10 PM »
Lol. Yeah I donít know to much about this paper it was just the first one I found. I didnít really want to use a source like fox because theyíre pretty partisan. Iíll get a better one when I get the chance.
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Re: Dinosaur Toy production and Slave labor
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2020, 10:51:48 PM »
Not that slave labor and mistreatment of workers doesn't happen, but next time link a better source than literally the dumbest website on the planet.
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Re: Dinosaur Toy production and Slave labor
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2020, 10:36:46 PM »
Here's a more down-the-middle source on the use of Uighur forced labor: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/19/world/asia/china-mask-forced-labor.html

I think about this a lot. There are some things where you can get a roughly equivalent product for a little bit more money, like clothing and appliances, made in a country with better labor conditions and no detention centers for ethnic and religious minorities. But there are so few toy companies that do their manufacturing outside of China (I've gotten a couple made in Vietnam, and of course Bullyland has stayed in Germany). I was thinking of dropping a line to Safari to see if they can be swayed to move some of their manufacturing. Of course, some of my favorite companies are headquartered in China (CollectA, PNSO), so then what?
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Brocc21

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Re: Dinosaur Toy production and Slave labor
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2020, 11:34:29 PM »
I actually had no idea collecta was from China. I donít know why but I always thought they were from Europe for some reason.
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Ravonium

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Re: Dinosaur Toy production and Slave labor
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2020, 11:44:09 PM »
I actually had no idea collecta was from China. I donít know why but I always thought they were from Europe for some reason.

If it makes any significant difference, they're specifically from Hong Kong (PNSO isn't).
« Last Edit: July 22, 2020, 11:44:22 PM by Ravonium »
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Brocc21

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Re: Dinosaur Toy production and Slave labor
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2020, 11:54:04 PM »
Doesnít make much of a difference anymore sadly.
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Re: Dinosaur Toy production and Slave labor
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2020, 01:56:17 AM »
I actually had no idea collecta was from China. I donít know why but I always thought they were from Europe for some reason.

CollectA tried to market themselves as a British company until Safari Ltd sued them over it.

https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-11th-circuit/1857792.html
« Last Edit: July 23, 2020, 01:56:41 AM by Pachyrhinosaurus »

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Re: Dinosaur Toy production and Slave labor
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2020, 06:57:10 AM »
I actually had no idea collecta was from China. I donít know why but I always thought they were from Europe for some reason.

CollectA tried to market themselves as a British company until Safari Ltd sued them over it.

https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-11th-circuit/1857792.html

Iím sorry but that doesnít make sense. Thatís like saying Safari is not an American company because their figures are manufactured in China.

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Re: Dinosaur Toy production and Slave labor
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2020, 07:10:45 AM »
I am aware of the fact that there is blood on many everyday items I use such as my sneakers,  clothes and my smartphone.  All have been produced by accepting abuse of people and their dignity.  Dinosaur toys make no exception.  When I buy myself a new one I sometimes say it has been made BY children FOR children.  All I can do is to tread everything well and as long as possible and buy regional products as much as possible.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2020, 07:14:19 AM by Libraraptor »

Ravonium

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Re: Dinosaur Toy production and Slave labor
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2020, 04:36:16 PM »
Doesnít make much of a difference anymore sadly.

Fair enough.


I actually had no idea collecta was from China. I donít know why but I always thought they were from Europe for some reason.

CollectA tried to market themselves as a British company until Safari Ltd sued them over it.

https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-11th-circuit/1857792.html

Iím sorry but that doesnít make sense. Thatís like saying Safari is not an American company because their figures are manufactured in China.

The difference is that the headquarters of Safari Ltd are in America (specifically in Florida), whereas CollectA's are in Hong Kong.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2020, 04:36:22 PM by Ravonium »
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Re: Dinosaur Toy production and Slave labor
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2020, 06:23:46 PM »
I think a lot about this, and worry about it (to the point it can keep me up at night) in addition to worrying if factory and other workers are being paid a living wage, paid sick leave, safe labor conditions, if they are adults or minors, etc, and that's in addition to the ramifications of climate change, habitat destruction, etc such a hobby as this may not be the most beneficial for perhaps, other then essential items such as food, etc, produced in such mass quantities that are actually needed for one's survival (assuming access and affordability).

It would truly horrify me if it came to light that any of the companies we support here made use of or supported such horrific practices, but all the same I've probably inevitably contributed to that somewhere with something (even to survive such as food or clothing), unknowingly as there unfortunately are too many businesses out there that care only about profits and not the folks they employ (assuming they aren't outright slaves like what is being done in some places in China and probably plenty elsewhere unfortunately), rather they be domestic or overseas, and it is probably inevitable I or we have purchased something from them in an attempt to survive, etc.
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Re: Dinosaur Toy production and Slave labor
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2020, 07:12:23 PM »

I actually had no idea collecta was from China. I donít know why but I always thought they were from Europe for some reason.

CollectA tried to market themselves as a British company until Safari Ltd sued them over it.

https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-11th-circuit/1857792.html

Iím sorry but that doesnít make sense. Thatís like saying Safari is not an American company because their figures are manufactured in China.

The difference is that the headquarters of Safari Ltd are in America (specifically in Florida), whereas CollectA's are in Hong Kong.

Admittedly things are fuzzy these days with globalization. Safari is based in Florida, but they commission dinosaur sculptures from a Canadian, and they get their products manufactured in China. CollectA is headquartered in Hong Kong, they commission sculptures from a German, and a British toy collector feeds them ideas and is the public face of the company in the West. If they're like any other toy company, both Safari and CollectA probably use a factory around Shenzhen/Guangzhou.

If anything the fact that it is so hard to shop ethically shows the limits of what individual consumers can do. None of this is changing without a concerted effort on the part of governments. Vote with your wallet if you like, but also vote with your ballot.
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laticauda

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Re: Dinosaur Toy production and Slave labor
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2020, 10:47:34 PM »
Here's a more down-the-middle source on the use of Uighur forced labor: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/19/world/asia/china-mask-forced-labor.html

I think about this a lot. There are some things where you can get a roughly equivalent product for a little bit more money, like clothing and appliances, made in a country with better labor conditions and no detention centers for ethnic and religious minorities. But there are so few toy companies that do their manufacturing outside of China (I've gotten a couple made in Vietnam, and of course Bullyland has stayed in Germany). I was thinking of dropping a line to Safari to see if they can be swayed to move some of their manufacturing. Of course, some of my favorite companies are headquartered in China (CollectA, PNSO), so then what?
I'll keep this simple.  Most of the news outlets in the USA are Left leaning.  Some are extremely left.  To get the best information, you cannot trust any one news outlet.  In fact many of them share the same article and use it verbatim or just change a couple of words in it.  You have to do some digging to check on the information.  New York Times by the way is not a middle source.  Recently it has turned extremely left.

This is why so many counties and companies bow to China. They are allowed to build their factories and products with the governments approval and the government doesn't care too much about the working conditions.  This lowers the production cost for the companies and we the consumers get a cheaper product. 

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Re: Dinosaur Toy production and Slave labor
« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2020, 09:19:14 AM »
Yes, but in the UK we have had the right wing party in government since 2010, with a majority of support from main stream media. Trade with China has increased exponentially in that time. Only very  recently has the Hong Kong situation and Huawei deal put any brakes on this.

I also don't think the political leanings of the mass media has too much to do with it,  some of our main newspapers such as the Daily Mail, are extremely right wing.

I too am concerned about human rights abuses in China, but it's difficult to know what to do with so much trade inter-linked with that country. I've been buying more vintage models the last few years, but still get some new ones as I also want to support our paleo-artists and distribution companies etc. This will support China too though...

I did trade my Huawei phone for a Nokia though recently, but wouldn't be surprised if some of that model was manufactured in China too!

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Re: Dinosaur Toy production and Slave labor
« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2020, 02:50:37 PM »
With social issues like this you aren't likely going to see good coverage from right or even center leaning organizations. Having multiple perspective on things is generally a good idea, and with things like economics or logistical policy hearing all sides can sometimes be important to having a clear picture of what's going on.

But that doesn't usually apply to social issues. The perspective of victims of abuse should be the one that is given precedent. Anything else is to enable or actively support the continuation of the abuse or exploitation.

And you won't get those perspectives from right wing media because they're disincentivized to mention such things.

Why would right leaning publications bother to call out the human rights abuses of the Chinese government when they likely don't or barely consider these as abuse at all? If Daily Mail doesn't believe in LGBT rights they have no reason to call out China for imprisoning LGBT persons and allies. If Fox News wants to spread their agenda that all Muslims should be forced out of America they have no reason to cover the Chinese governments endorsements of attempted genocides against them. When these companies do make statements about these things it's usually focused around the idea that these abuses serve as "unfair competition", providing the Chinese government or corporations with an advantage over "our" companies.

This goes for centrist organizations too, arguably even more directly in this particular case. If CNN's parent company is profiting off of cheap Chinese labour and trying hard to earn films deals in China, they have reason to try to downplay how bad the abuse is.

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Re: Dinosaur Toy production and Slave labor
« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2020, 07:42:01 PM »
@Halichoeres @stargatedalek I agree wholeheartedly with both of you on this. You make excellent points about how complicated and rough this situation truly is, and how tough treating the root of this will be, especially on an individual level, particularly with those that profit off of it without some real structural changes in place (but granted I also fully expect push-back to such measures. To expect and hope otherwise would be naive I think).
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Brocc21

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Re: Dinosaur Toy production and Slave labor
« Reply #18 on: July 27, 2020, 02:27:41 AM »
@stargatedalek actually Iíve seen tons of right leaning news sources talking about Chinaís treatment of workers, maybe more so than left leaning ones. But perhaps we should start this conversation away from this sort of stuff. Iíd rather not get in trouble and this discussion is already pretty political as it is.
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Re: Dinosaur Toy production and Slave labor
« Reply #19 on: July 27, 2020, 10:36:43 PM »
Literally this morning someone I know said online, "NYT is a pro-corporation, pro-capitalism rag run by millionaires." I suppose we could thread the needle and say that the editorial page is liberal leaning no social issues (gay rights, immigration), while being conservative-leaning on fiscal and tax issues. But I don't think characterizing it as 'extremely left' is accurate; I think that would better fit outlets like Jacobin or maybe The Intercept. The original link in the top post was from the very partisan Federalist; I don't think Fox Business is as extreme FWIW. As for the NYT, their non-editorial content isn't particularly partisan. Anyway, look, I don't think this issue is particularly partisan either, even as it is deeply political. John Oliver did his show about it yesterday, and as we've seen in this thread, news outlets across the spectrum are talking about it.

I don't think anyone was confused about the economics of outsourcing manufacturing. Depending on things like cost of living, that could even have upsides in both locations, at least in theory. The recent authoritarian turn of the CCP with respect to Muslims and citizens of Hong Kong is what has me questioning the ethics of continuing to source goods in China. I don't think that's a left-right issue; it's a human rights issue.
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My attempt to find the best toy of every species: http://dinotoyblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=3390.0

My trade/sale/wishlist thread: http://dinotoyblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=3299.0

Sometimes I draw pictures: http://dinotoyblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=4856.0