Teinurosaurus size?

[TheAllosaur]

Can any of the experts figure this out for me? The size of the Portugese coelurosaur Teinurosaurus. The specimen, a vertebrae, is 152mm long,  ( I think 6 in.) and I can't do math well at all, so what size is it? My current guess is 25-30 feet.

[wings]

Can any of the experts figure this out for me? The size of the Portugese coelurosaur Teinurosaurus. The specimen, a vertebrae, is 152mm long,  ( I think 6 in.) and I can't do math well at all, so what size is it? My current guess is 25-30 feet.

I'm no expert in this. So I did have a quick look at what we have from Wiki. It seems like the holotype of Teinurosaurus (MGB500) is a caudal vertebra which is 152mm long (If that is the same one that you are referring to). So to answer your question could be tricky (see http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/lost-worlds/2012/aug/29/dinosaurs-fossils, could your animal be the long or short tail version?), we just don't have enough material to tell. We are not too sure of its family either (perhaps someone would do a study on it and be able to determine this, which would be a tat difficult since the original is lost) so we can't really make comparison to other relatives. We need more materials of this animal because often depending on the "part(s)" that we have the scaling could be very different (see http://qilong.wordpress.com/2012/02/11/the-never-ending-artistic-revision-cycle-mpc-d-10042/, notice how the length of the animals are quite different on the last diagram when different parts of the animal were used for the scaling). In addition, let's say it is a coelurosaur but this term is kind of like a waste basket it includes all kinds of body proportions (it could be like alvarezsaurs, oviraptors, troodons, therizinosaurs, tyrannosaurs or dromaeosaurs). Have you seen a photo or diagram of the actual specimen and from the shape of it which kind of "coelurosaur" is it similar to?

[ZoPteryx]

Not much to go on.  Given the age, location, and size of the vertebrae, and assumming it was correctly identified as a coelurosaur, your most likely suspect would be a basal tyrannosaur with a size of 20-30 feet.  Just a shot in the dark.  If it was a primitive therizinosaur, then perhaps in the 15-25 foot range.  So you end up with an animal that was between 15-30 feet in length, a pretty big difference.

[TheAllosaur]

well, it was jurassic, so I now am assuming it's maybe more like an allosaur or megalosaur...but thanks for all the help!!

[wings]

well, it was jurassic, so I now am assuming it's maybe more like an allosaur or megalosaur...but thanks for all the help!!

So base on what you are saying, you have no idea what it is and very much as long as it is a theropod..., since allosaur or megalosaur does not belong to the coelurosaur clade at all (as described in the original message). This would probably make it almost impossible to make any estimates  .

I've tried to look into it a bit and what I find is that (Sauvage 1897) the caudal vertebra is very elongated, approximately 11cm in length, the centrum is about 3 cm high and 3.5 cm wide. Huene suggested the specimen is a "coelurosaurian" distal caudal vertebra, closely resembling Elaphrosaurus' caudals, however it has a wider centrum and stronger prezygapophyses (bony processes). Since then Norman (1990) also commented on the specimen as definitely theropod, but cannot be further classified. So (from Huene's description- if it has any truth in it) it looks like this animal could possibly be sitting within the Abelisauridae.

[TheAllosaur]

Well, let me sort this out. Not likely a coelurosaur, but was thought to be when it was discovered. Now it's more likely a Elaphrosaur or maybe even related to Bahariasaurus, or an Abelisaur. About 15-30 feet. Okay. Thaks for all the help, it is much appreciated!!!

[wings]

Well, let me sort this out. Not likely a coelurosaur, but was thought to be when it was discovered. Now it's more likely a Elaphrosaur or maybe even related to Bahariasaurus, or an Abelisaur. About 15-30 feet. Okay. Thaks for all the help, it is much appreciated!!!

Perhaps I shouldn't have said that it could possibly be sitting within the Abelisauridae. What I was meant to say is it probably is safer to assume that this animal is likely to belong to Ceratosauria which comprises a number of basal forms like "elaphrosaurs", ceratosaurids, noasaurids and abelisaurids. Due to its age and its similarity with "elaphrosaurs" (from comments above) which includes Elaphrosaurus,  Limusaurus and possibly Spinostropheus, it might be quite a slender animal. We only have a Limusaurus skull from these primitive ceratosaurs so far and it is toothless so I wonder what kind of dentition this animal would have.

BTW where did you get your info referring to the Bahariasaurus a late Cretaceous species from? Just out of curiosity.

[TheAllosaur]

Well, let me sort this out. Not likely a coelurosaur, but was thought to be when it was discovered. Now it's more likely a Elaphrosaur or maybe even related to Bahariasaurus, or an Abelisaur. About 15-30 feet. Okay. Thaks for all the help, it is much appreciated!!!

Perhaps I shouldn't have said that it could possibly be sitting within the Abelisauridae. What I was meant to say is it probably is safer to assume that this animal is likely to belong to Ceratosauria which comprises a number of basal forms like "elaphrosaurs", ceratosaurids, noasaurids and abelisaurids. Due to its age and its similarity with "elaphrosaurs" (from comments above) which includes Elaphrosaurus,  Limusaurus and possibly Spinostropheus, it might be quite a slender animal. We only have a Limusaurus skull from these primitive ceratosaurs so far and it is toothless so I wonder what kind of dentition this animal would have.

BTW where did you get your info referring to the Bahariasaurus a late Cretaceous species from? Just out of curiosity.

What exactly do you mean? About the Bahariasaurus info.-Well, from what i'm guessing, I got the info from books.

[wings]

What exactly do you mean? About the Bahariasaurus info.-Well, from what i'm guessing, I got the info from books.

The only reason I asked is because again I've only read the wiki page and it states that Bahariasaurus is one of those theropods that hasn't have a certain placement yet in "any" groups. It was assigned to multiple groups like Tyrannosauroidea, Carcharodontosauridae and could potentially be in the Noasauridae family. The specimen was destroyed during WWII. Now, assuming the author who wrote the article had read all the references listed on this page, it is clear that none of these references give a definitive answer to its affinity otherwise it would have been said in a firmer tone rather than words like "potential" and "uncertain".  The reference used on the page seems quite comprehensive (I assume that is probably most if not all the articles relating to this animal) and that is why I asked you which "book(s)" did you get the reference for it as being linked (related) to Teinurosaurus? It sounds unusual that out of all the theropods (Ceratosauria) you would put out a name of an animal that hasn't been properly classified yet and saying that it maybe related to another animal (Teinurosaurus) which also hasn't been assigned to any group either. Perhaps you've read a more recent article about this, I have no idea whether that is just your thinking, a webpage or even an actual article written on this. I'm not doubting what you said (maybe there really is a study on it) but just interested in reading about the phylogenic research hinting the relationship between Teinurosaurus and Bahariasaurus (as mentioned in your previous post).

[TheAllosaur]

Well, the book that gave me the idea Bahariasaurus is a ceratosaur is Greg Paul's Field Guide to Dinosaurs, but it gives no mention of Teinurosaurus. That was my own guess, I kind of assume some dinosaurs are Bahariasaurs, like Sigilmassasaurs, because I think Bahariasaurus and Deltadromeus is too few, there has to be more. Of course, just a guess. 

[TheAllosaur]

Once again, thanks everyone for the help and support! Even though it's size and classification is still a mystery, i have a clearer idea now, thanks to all of you! Thanks!