You can support the Dinosaur Toy Forum by making dino-purchases through these links to Ebay and Amazon. Disclaimer: these and other links to Ebay.com and Amazon.com on the Dinosaur Toy Forum are often affiliate links, so when you make purchases through them we may make a commission.

Wing Feathers

Started by Seijun, November 23, 2012, 04:32:26 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Seijun

Many theropod dinos are restored nowadays with feathers. Often they are given very complex and very bird-like flight feathers on their arms, particularly raptors, even when the species could not fly and did not evolve from anything that could fly. I admit the more bird-like wings LOOK very cool, but realistically was it very likely? Would flight feathers, or feathers resembling modern flight feathers, have had any reason to evolve in a species that could not fly or even glide? Was it more likely that the "wings" of most feathered theropods would have looked more like the wings of an ostrich or emu?
My living room smells like old plastic dinosaur toys... Better than air freshener!


Jetoar

It is a good question Seijun. I think that no avian theropods have ornamental feathers in his arms likes as Concavenator but not kind of wings. It is posible that big and gigants Theropods have feathers likes as emus  or not depend their habitats and raptors have featheres in their arms like as true wings, from my point of view  ^-^.
[Off Nick and Eddie's reactions to the dinosaurs] Oh yeah "Ooh, aah", that's how it always starts. But then there's running and screaming.



{about the T-Rex) When he sees us with his kid isn't he gonna be like "you"!?

My website: Paleo-Creatures
My website's facebook: Paleo-Creatures

Dinoguy2

#2
Given the fact that bird-like wings evolved in things like ornithomimids and oviraptorids long before anything that could conceivably fly or glide, they must have evolved for reasons other than flight at first, such as display or covering nests/eggs. Caudipteryx, for example, had tiny wings and was way too large to fly, glide, or even climb, yet it had basically bird-like wing feathers. It probably evolved these for display.

Also, there are other functional reasons for large predators like Deinonychus to keep or evolve normal wings:
http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0028964
(Flapping the stabilize themselves on top of struggling prey, also known as the "ripper" hypothesis). Emu-like wing feathers wouldn't be as effective for this. We know for a fact Velociraptor had large wing feathers, but you're right that we don't know if they were vaned like those of flying birds or loose and ostrich-like.

Interestingly, in juvenile Sinornithosaurus (Dave specimen) the wing feathers are vaned and bird-like, but in adults they appear to be loose and emu-like (unless they degraded after death). It's theoretically possible that some dromaeosaurs could fly as juveniles and became flightless as adults, and the wing feathers changed accordingly. And anyway...

Quote from: Seijun on November 23, 2012, 04:32:26 AM
the species could not fly and did not evolve from anything that could fly.
That's very debatable. It's entirely possible that dromies evolved from flying ancestors. At least two of the most primitive known dromaeosaurs (Rahonavis and micro raptor) could probably fly at least a little. Not that this has much bearing on the wings of advanced dromies--emus also evolved from flying ancestors, but they don't have well-developed wing feathers. Presence of those requires a functional reason to keep them.
The Carnegie Collection Dinosaur Archive - http://www.dinosaurmountain.net

Seijun

Thanks for the info. In the case of ornithomimids, oviraptorids, velociraptor, etc, do we actually have fossil impressions of the wing feathers, or just evidence that feathers existed, like having quill knobs?
My living room smells like old plastic dinosaur toys... Better than air freshener!

Jetoar

From my point of view, This collecta T-rex is a combination of Raul Martín and Jurassic Park T-Rex  ^-^.
[Off Nick and Eddie's reactions to the dinosaurs] Oh yeah "Ooh, aah", that's how it always starts. But then there's running and screaming.



{about the T-Rex) When he sees us with his kid isn't he gonna be like "you"!?

My website: Paleo-Creatures
My website's facebook: Paleo-Creatures

ZoPteryx

Quote from: Seijun on November 23, 2012, 08:37:43 PM
Thanks for the info. In the case of ornithomimids, oviraptorids, velociraptor, etc, do we actually have fossil impressions of the wing feathers, or just evidence that feathers existed, like having quill knobs?

There are "wing feather" impressions for ornithomimids and oviraptorids.  Velociraptor is known to have quill knobs which are nearly identical to those of known winged raptors (like Sinornithosaurus), so it probably had a very similar feather arrangement.  Seeing as it's now been proven that sandstone can hold soft tissue impressions, I suspect lots more dinos will soon be getting their wings. ;)

You can support the Dinosaur Toy Forum by making dino-purchases through these links to Ebay and Amazon. Disclaimer: these and other links to Ebay.com and Amazon.com on the Dinosaur Toy Forum are often affiliate links, so when you make purchases through them we may make a commission.