Dinosaur scale thread

[Dinoguy2]

I think Dinoguy2 mentioned that the life position of the bones of dinosaurs couldn't be fully known, particularly for example the position of the neck.  So the length would be measured as if the animal's bones were in a straight line on the ground.  It would be increasing the length of the animal from the length when it was alive, but it would be consistent with the length estimates I tend to see for dinosaurs compared to size charts with rigorous reconstructions of the animal.  The length estimates tend to be longer than the reconstructed animals.

Yeah, the 'length' will be seriously inflated if measured that way. There's a big difference between the length of the animal from front to back, and the length of the vertebral column + skull. Here's a diagram I created to compare three different ways of measuring the 'length' of a familiar modern animal.



A is the length of the animal from front to back.
B is the length of the spine + skull, as measured in a straight line.
C is the length of the spine + skull, as measured along the dorsoventral curvature.

The numbers in black give the significantly different lengths of the lines (in pixels): C > B > A.

I understand the reason for calculating C for a scientific description, but we have to be careful not to conflate that measurement with the front to back length of the animal (A). It might work out for some groups, but it will be way off for others. In the giraffe, C is a whopping 40% longer than A. So, if length estimates for dinosaurs (on, say, Wikipedia) are uniformly calculated by method C, we need to treat the measurements with caution, and measure our toys using the same metric (if that's even possible, since the 'spine' measurement is inside the toy). The best we can measure accurately would be B. If they are not uniformly calculated by method C or the method is not made explicit, then we need to treat our scale calculations with caution.

As I've often said, the solution to this problem is to not measure length at all. Length is an estimate. Whenever possible we should measure a rigid element to calculate scale. The trunk length suggestion above is a decent one, though complicated by differing guesses about shoulder girdle placement. I usually use skull length if available. That has it's own complications about how exactly to measure the skull, but the error margin is much less significant for toy-sized things. For me, subjectively, the head is also the "personality" of the figure. If I put a human for scale next to a model, and the model is mis-scaled, it will seem "wrong" if the head size looks significantly different from known skulls. Failing skull length, I usually try to estimate femur length on the model as best I can. Not usually too hard to figure where the hip socket would be and measure to the knee.

[Stunt_Kitty_Films]

Some of my recent work determining the scale of the Invicta Plastics Ltd Iguanodon figure.

[Totoro]

Is there a table anywhere on the forum/blog that collects (or begins to collect) the scales of some/most/all of the figures and models?  I have found scales for some of these in various blog reviews but it'd be great to have a table that collects them and slowly fills in the gaps. 

[GnastyGnorc]

Is there a table anywhere on the forum/blog that collects (or begins to collect) the scales of some/most/all of the figures and models?  I have found scales for some of these in various blog reviews but it'd be great to have a table that collects them and slowly fills in the gaps. 

I have actually been working on an excel sheet that is meant to show how each figure works in different scales. Right now I mostly only have HLG and PNSO figures, and a few random Collecta. I hope to start adding more. I also have to rely on other reviewer's measurements since I don't actually own many figures myself. I am open to sharing this if people are interested.

[Totoro]

Is there a table anywhere on the forum/blog that collects (or begins to collect) the scales of some/most/all of the figures and models?  I have found scales for some of these in various blog reviews but it'd be great to have a table that collects them and slowly fills in the gaps. 

I have actually been working on an excel sheet that is meant to show how each figure works in different scales. Right now I mostly only have HLG and PNSO figures, and a few random Collecta. I hope to start adding more. I also have to rely on other reviewer's measurements since I don't actually own many figures myself. I am open to sharing this if people are interested.

I was wondering whether this might be somthing we could tackle together as a community, if in fact the table doesn't exist.  We might list reported or estimated scales for figures and then report them as confirmed once checked by folks and verified.  Just a thought, but I'm always wanting to know which figures I can display together. 

Maybe @DinoToyForum has an idea about how to do this allowing all members to contribute?  Then again, maybe that would be chaos and it has to be just a select # of folks entering the data. 

[GnastyGnorc]

Paleo Figure Size Reference

Here is the google sheets I have been working on. I have listed out scales by increments of 5. If a scale is highlighted in blue it is either within the current size estimates or just barely outside. if its green it is close to the size estimates with an error percentage of 2.5-5%. Yellow is if the size is close to the current size estimate with an error percentage of 5-10%.

I did it like this to show how certain figures could potentially work for different scales.

Potential pitfalls of this are making sure the size of the figure is accurate as well as making sure the estimates of certain genera and species are accurate. (I had to rely on size estimates from Wikipedia or other reviewers but for ones I was less sure on I tried to do more thorough research.)

I am curious to know everyone's thoughts on it and if there are suggestions for improvement.

I am hesitant to open it up for edit to everyone but perhaps it could have its own thread and people could submit new rows with the necessary data. (figure information, figure size, genera, species if applicable, specimen if applicable), size range)

[GnastyGnorc]

Removed

[Totoro]

Wow, great work, G @GnastyGnorc!  I'd be very happy to see something like your table expanded and would be happy to add measurements from my modest collection to add to it if the forum goes that direction. 

[Quiversaurus]

Paleo Figure Size Reference

Here is the google sheets I have been working on. I have listed out scales by increments of 5. If a scale is highlighted in blue it is either within the current size estimates or just barely outside. if its green it is close to the size estimates with an error percentage of 2.5-5%. Yellow is if the size is close to the current size estimate with an error percentage of 5-10%.

I did it like this to show how certain figures could potentially work for different scales.

Potential pitfalls of this are making sure the size of the figure is accurate as well as making sure the estimates of certain genera and species are accurate. (I had to rely on size estimates from Wikipedia or other reviewers but for ones I was less sure on I tried to do more thorough research.)

I am curious to know everyone's thoughts on it and if there are suggestions for improvement.

I am hesitant to open it up for edit to everyone but perhaps it could have its own thread and people could submit new rows with the necessary data. (figure information, figure size, genera, species if applicable, specimen if applicable), size range)

Wow this is great work G @GnastyGnorc ! Very useful indeed. I imagine, if coupled with the graph that @Stunt_Kitty_Films did, we would be well-armed on the scale front.

[Sim]

Forum member S @suchomimus created a spreadsheet where scales can be listed, that can be found here: https://dinotoyblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=2752.msg75285#msg75285

Also, D @Dinoguy2 made a thread for PNSO figure scales that can be found here: https://dinotoyblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=9204.msg277235#msg277235

[Samrukia]

this is very very great work you done there G @GnastyGnorc
i like your approach with error margins

and formations info is so useful.
if only such database would become paired up with dinotoycollector, for example, - wow, a dream