Psittacosaurus Reborn project

[amargasaurus cazaui]

When I first joined this forum it was in hopes of finding an image I had seen online. I found the image belonged to Helge, and depicted a Copper paint up of Aaron Doyle's old style Psittacosaurus. I came hoping just to find who owned the picture and see if I could print it to accompany my skeleton display. The reason was simple really, in the image, the psittacosaur was posed identically to my skeleton, and later I learned that is precisely because it was that image the lab used to mount my own piece.  As most things in life do, it became much more complicated than I had originally planned....I was able to learn who painted the model, who sculpted it, and even have one printed for myself and painted quite similar by the same artist even. Copper made me a lovely twin to the original done for Helge.
  Over time Aaron chose to revisit his sculpt of Psittacosaurus and attend some accuracy issues...ie, in particular the hands and number of digits. He asked me for shots of my own dinosaur as he had questions and touched up the old sculpt and removed the base it had been attached to. Upon finishing the digital model we selected some poses and I had each of them printed.
The accompanying images of course are from this work.













So why a new thread and why mention this all? Recently I discovered a paper that demonstrates the color and scale patterning for psittacosaurus based on a fossil specimen. I was eventually able to secure the full paper and this is where it gets fun and moves into the never never world of Paleontology and things that are seldom done.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20354675?report=abstract

I have asked Aaron to take this new information and using a few poses from his updated model to further fineline the detail to match the linked paper. The formal version of the paper describes three types of scales, and how they are patterned on the Pssitacosaurus specimen as well as describing the actual colors. In addition he has agreed to upscale the models we choose, to 1/6 size, rather than the 1/12 mode they are currently offered in. This should provide a basic model of a psittacosaurus, based on actual skeletal material, that is also accurate in color, and scale pattern as well as scale size.
  Once done with the model itself, the next move will be to provide Martin the coloration necessary to recreate this dinosaur just as it would have looked. How many of you would love to have a model of your favorite dinosaur and be able to prove the colors and sculpting right down the scales is accurate?
   Why is this particularly unique? We might know the colors of a handful of dinosaurs at best, however this is only the second non-theropod we have color for , let alone actual scale shape and patterning. The fossils themselves are just not known at this point for so many others, and the few we do know are mostly from the theropod family.
   I was unsure wether to post this in Paleontology or under models, or perhaps dinosaur art, and admins feel free to shuffle how you see fit. Thoughts? I found this idea fascinating to say the least, and I hope you enjoy watching as we progress. Special thanks of course to Aaron Doyle, Copper, Helge, Martin and Marilyn and of course the wonderful Psittacosaurus for such a fun journey.

[amargasaurus cazaui]

So the first stage of this begins, with having given both Martin and Aaron copies of the paper regarding the psittacosaurus fossil with coloration and actual scales, not just impressions, preserved. Aaron will digest the information and then revisit his sculpt, to modify the detailing to fit the known scale size , shape and patterning for this find. He will be striving for three sizes and types of scale , to make the fine detail as accurate as possible. I am excited to see the results. If anyone is wanting the paper regarding this find, message me for a link. To verify, it is free, and no charge if you want it.

[Gwangi]

You may very well have the most accurate depiction of Psittacosaurus right there, congrats. I really admire your dedication to the  Psittacosaurus genus, you got the skeleton and sought out to learn as much about it as you could. Very admirable indeed.

[DinoLord]

I second Gwangi's comment: your dedication to Psittacosaurus is very respectable. If only it were as practical for those of us who like sauropods... 

[amargasaurus cazaui]

Very kind words, from both of you. I always ask if I am dedicated or obsessed, or for that matter if it makes any difference. I think everyone in the forum should have a dinosaur they push to its total limits...could you imagine what kind of place this would be? For me the choice was rather basic...this was the only dinosaur I could afford and have space for , if I wanted a real skeleton to call mine. Everyone always asks why Psittacosaurus.....and it was really just that simple. Money, space and availibility. But I do think if you are going to do something, do it with a passion and fierceness that makes people know you are sincere and perhaps they too will follow that model.Of course most people dont spend over two thousand dollars on one central piece in their collection.
    I call my dinosaur Genghis Nim. He has become my muse and is my voice on Facebook. Some of you already know him and enjoy his friendship. Interesting thing about Nim...he has 125 friends on his page and on mine , well less than a hundred. Nim has Julius Cstonyi, Paul Sereno, Dan Larosso, Forest Rogers, Holtz, Tanke, and a small who's who of paleo luminaries. Nim has helped our local museum re-see how they have displayed their own psittacosaurus. Nim has been featured in an article for my local mineral society that was published. Nim has been a constant at mineral shows, and also speaking engagements we have done. I swear sometimes this dinosaur talks to me in my sleep and gives me new ideas.....somehowe we just keep moving forward and doing more and better things. I once explained it as ...love the one you are with. Nim is the dinosaur I wound up with....but I wouldnt change that for anything now. What a wonderful journey to take.....We all should have a muse, that feeds us creative ideas and the mental addrenalin to pursue them .

[amargasaurus cazaui]

I second Gwangi's comment: your dedication to Psittacosaurus is very respectable. If only it were as practical for those of us who like sauropods... 

Oddly enough, my first love is sauropods. Note the name I chose for the forum. My first thread here under collections was  Team Sauropod. I still love them and have a massive shelf of them....but yeah that concept gave me an instant headache. Imagine collecting sauropods like I have psittacosaurus? uh yeah that wont work. I guess as time changes we all change too.

[amargasaurus cazaui]

Aaron and Martin both have the paper and while that is being studied and waiting to move forward I thought I would post the road I have traveled the past few years trying to find the correct colors and patterns for this dinosaur. Most of you have already seen these models , but many new members have joined so I am going to go ahead and do this , despite reposting many of them here.I am also going to throw you a few curveballs so watch out !!


Coppers rendtion of the original Aaron Doyle sculpt. Note the hands are pronated and would have an extra digit if Copper had not filed them off for me.




This is the first Carnegie repaint I had done, and it was done by Copper. Notice the face and how lifelike this one looks. I almost expect it to blink sometimes.




This repaint was done by Bob Morales who chose this pattern and colors.


This image is A revised Aaron Doyle model , painted to match a Carnegie factory version



The next image is two that were painted by Martin. The ligher colored one Martin chose the colors and pattern and the green and red one, was directly swiped from a Julius Cstonyi picture, at my request.


I asked Martin to redo a Collecta model.




The next picture is another view of the psittacosaur family group that Martin did for me. Make note of the almost black heads, and the large dark scales surrounded by lighter ones...this is quite similar to what the paper suggests in many ways.


Since I found this color pattern especially interesting I requested Martin do a Carnegie in the same colors.





And finally this little wonder.....martin sculpted the quills himself, and chose this paint pattern and set of colors. It is quite similar to what the paper suggests in many ways . Darker Dorsally and lightening ventrally....with larger dark scales surrounded by rings of smaller lighter scales, especiallly in the shoulder areas.It is not a perfect match to the paper but is quite similar in many ways, enough to be impressed for me at least since it was done long before we ever got this information.


Finally a parting shot for those who have seen the paper and can now compare the pictures to this......when I first realized this it really struck me . This picture is the scale impressions from Triceratops Lane. Compare with the images in the paper....larger scales, surrounded by rings of smaller differently shaped scales. It is seemingly almost an identical match in pattern. Yet seperated by how many millions of years in time......

[amargasaurus cazaui]

Credit for these models goes to DinoRaul on Renderosity, Tyrannt Queen for rendering them from the digital files for me, and finally Martin Garrat for his talented paintbrush and inate ability to always redefine the word amazing. (The Shapeways prints also lacked quills, before Martin added them in)The large adult was painted using the published paper providing coloration for psittacosaurus. Consider this an upgrade of the Dinosaur Expo model for certain !!!

[tyrantqueen]

I like the idea of having them emerge from a burrow. I don't think I've ever seen that in a diorama before. They look fantastic, glad they turned out so well.

[Arul]

Thats inspiring, awesome 

[amargasaurus cazaui]

I chose this area to post the model in for a particular reason, that being the paper I have linked above that demonstrates coloring and the patterns for this dinosaur. I sent the paper to Martin prior to sending these models. I did not attempt to tell Martin how to paint or base this one and give the credit entirely to him, I had never even thought of them emerging from a burrow like this.Martin also sculpted in the quills for me.  The adult is painted according to the paper and its ideas and I think Martin did a stunning job. The model garnered something like 36 likes on Facebook on his page in three hours if you can read a thing into that.
     So a moment for everyones thoughts here....you can glance through all of the psittacosaurus models ive brought to this thread, and then these. The body styles are very different for this model versus the Doyle Model or the Carnegie for instance....what do you like best or what seems most realistic to you?
   I do need to repeat that I would not have had these without Tyrannt Queen and her efforts to help me, so I am going to mention that again. I had no idea how to take the file and render it printable.

[amargasaurus cazaui]

I would like to stir the pot a bit here and provoke some discussion about these models. What I am hoping to see is people's ideas about the posture, and how the dinosaur is sculpted...too thin, too fat, walking on all four vs, walking on its legs only, etc. I have presented numerous models here, but I am not so concerned with the bases they have or the coloring as the body design, shape, general " Feel" and " look" of the animal. I know some of you have to have some thoughts about it, wether the Dino-Raul renderosity style almost racoon like style of the dinosaur, recently added here, or the retired and bulky looking Carnegie model. Should they be presented as entirely bi-pedal or quadrapeds? There is no right or wrong here, I would like opinions and ideas here. Gwangi, Patrx, Tyrannt Queen, Dinolord, HD Man, I am looking at you all. You guys are not this shy, chime in on this. Some civil debate and commentary please....

[DinoLord]

I don't know ornithischians too well but I think you've amassed a nice group of figures. I find pretty much all of them except for the CollectA one visually appealing. I've always found the Carnegie sculpt to be one of my favorites out of their old ones. The Shapeways are great too, but much more expensive!

Weren't there something like a bit under a dozen species of Psittacosaurus? I'm sure in life some of these would have looked and lived quite differently from each other, and I think the variety of appearances in your model is a nice reflection of that.

[amargasaurus cazaui]

I don't know ornithischians too well but I think you've amassed a nice group of figures. I find pretty much all of them except for the CollectA one visually appealing. I've always found the Carnegie sculpt to be one of my favorites out of their old ones. The Shapeways are great too, but much more expensive!

Weren't there something like a bit under a dozen species of Psittacosaurus? I'm sure in life some of these would have looked and lived quite differently from each other, and I think the variety of appearances in your model is a nice reflection of that.

Some very good ideas there Dinolord. In fact depending what day of the week and who you ask you get as many as sixteen or as few as nine species of Psittacosaurus, but indeed one of the most heavily speciated families of dinosaurs known. When you also put into play another idea I tend to consider alot it makes you wonder. Given the number of modern species of birds, who only vary in color, or perhaps behavior, and do not leave those indicators as part of the fossil record, it would seem likely some future paleontologist would underestimate the number of species of birds we have today. I wonder often if we are getting that with some types of dinosaur as well. Adding to this , it is guessed many species might exist five million years give or take and vanish, however psittacosaurus seems to have existed for something like thirty million years, during which time I am sure there were numerous changes and alternate types appearing.
  You in fact did tag right into what I have tried to portray into the collection...as vast wide area where this dinosaur existed, over as much time as it did, i think there had to be dozens of types and color schemes and what not

[tyrantqueen]

It's interesting that when you compare Dinoraul's and Aaron Doyle's psittacosaurs, they're almost polar opposites. I personally see the Doyle Psittaco as gracile and fast moving, whereas Dinoraul's is heavier set and bulkier. I really like them both.

Also, a question. Since we know that Psittacosaurus were able to pronate their hands, isn't the original Aaron Doyle Psittacosaurus sculpt still accurate? I know that they moved quadrupedally more when they were young, but I don't think they would lose the ability the pronate their hands once they reached adulthood. That would seem strange to me. Hope I'm making sense here.

[amargasaurus cazaui]

It's interesting that when you compare Dinoraul's and Aaron Doyle's psittacosaurs, they're almost polar opposites. I personally see the Doyle Psittaco as gracile and fast moving, whereas Dinoraul's is heavier set and bulkier. I really like them both.

Also, a question. Since we know that Psittacosaurus were able to pronate their hands, isn't the original Aaron Doyle Psittacosaurus sculpt still accurate? I know that they moved quadrupedally more when they were young, but I don't think they would lose the ability the pronate their hands once they reached adulthood. That would seem strange to me. Hope I'm making sense here.

You noticed just what I have in that the Doyle model vs. the DinoRaul piece, are almost exact opposites in body shape and design.This is somewhat why I wished to start a discussion on the topic, they both appear plausible or natural for a dinosaur of this type.
Regarding Aaron's original Psittacosaurus sculpt...if you allow the hands as being correctly oriented, it is quite possibly accurate, however the hands still demonstrate an extra digit that was removed in the update.
Regarding the science behind Psittacosaurus and its hand posture and wether bi-pedal or quadrapedal, there has been alot of uncertainty and discussion. The lab I purchased my specimen insisted the hands should be pronated.....

Sentner in 2007 in his paper concluded..........Forelimb morphology and range of
motion indicate that Psittacosaurus was an obligate biped and that Leptoceratops
and Protoceratops were capable of quadrupedal locomotion. Forelimb mobility
was too limited in Psittacosaurus for the hands to reach the mouth.

In response to the second part of your question I would infer most people remember a rather heated debate a bit back in Shane's thread where he introduced the Psittacosaurus model with front hands which are pronated, and the ensuing discussion. I had cautioned the idea the hands were indeed incorrect based on the model representing a fully mature adult in size. It was and remains my theory that psittacosaurs as a species were somewhat quadrapedal at birth and as they matured they become more and more Bi-pedal in nature.
Here is an excerpt from another paper, regarding one species of psittacosaurus....

A few dinosaurs are inferred to have undergone an ontogenetic shift from quadrupedal-tobipedal
posture, or vice versa, based on skeletal allometry. The basal ceratopsian
Psittacosaurus lujiatunensis is considered to have been mainly bipedal as an adult. Here we
infer a postural shift in this species based on a novel combination of limb measurements and
histological data. The forelimb is strongly negatively allometric relative to the hindlimb, and
patterns of vascular canal orientation provide evidence that growth of the hindlimb was
particularly rapid during the middle part of ontogeny. Histology also makes it possible to
determine the ontogenetic ages of individual specimens, showing that the forelimb-tohindlimb
ratio changed rapidly during the first or second year of life and thereafter decreased
gradually. Occurrence of an ontogenetic shift from quadrupedality to bipedality was evidently
widespread in dinosaurs, and may even represent the ancestral condition for the entire group.



Qi Zhao1,2, Michael J. Benton1, Corwin Sullivan2, P. Martin Sander3 & Xing Xu2


It is this paper for me which is highly suggestive of the psittacosaurus and how it moved. I do accept a dinosaur with neutral hands can walk on all fours however.