I think the term 'Chinasaur' is misleading.

[DinoToyForum]

I had an interesting discussion with my friend Wang Qi (who is Chinese) about this. In summary, the word is open to confusion, so we sort of ended up back where we started.

Dinotoyforum: Hi, dinosaur toy collectors use the term 'Chinasaur' to describe unbranded toys marked only "Made in China" or without marks at all. What do you think of the word Chinasaur in this context? Some of my forum members are saying it is Chinaphobic. I would be glad to hear your opinion, especially as we used it as a hashtag in our exhibition.

WQ: It has a certain root. I won't deny there is a logical reason for people to use it as almost all unbranded toys are made in China, but it is also hostile to me. There is nothing we can do except to actively change and improve the Chinese brand. PNSO apparently is a milestone. But I also think this term is versatile, like Made in China, not necessarily to be taken sensitively by people. It only will make sense to a small group of people who are serious in this industry circle or serious collectors, so I don't worry too much about using it in our exhibition. I also think the people who are using this term are knowledgeable in this field, so they should have a sharp observation to notice changes in China's dinosaur toy line.

Dinotoyforum: I don't think dinosaur toy collectors are intending to be hostile, but if Chinese people find it offensive we should stop using it. The implication is not that unbranded toys are bad, just that they are unbranded. Like the ones we bought in IVPP. Not cheap, but actually good quality, they just don't have a brand name. In some ways it might be considered something to be proud of – to own the market for unbranded toys?

WQ: It is an interesting topic. I think it relates to copyright and how Chinese companies don't understand too much about plastic toys having copyright. The country only realises recently that accuracy matters.

Dinotoyforum: No, many Chinasaurs are original (not copies). Like the ones produced in the 80s and 90s, such as the one you gave me as a gift. They are often cute toys, original sculpts, but without a brand. This is a 'typical' Chinasaur toy. The modern copies and knock-offs are also Chinasaurs, but these are the questionable ones because of copyright.

WQ: I see, so Chinasaur has dual meanings.

Dinotoyforum: Well, if a collector called your childhood figure a Chinasaur, it just means it was made in China and has no brand name. There are many kinds of Chinasaur, the only thing they have in common is the country they were manufactured.

WQ: That makes it more interesting. Apparently now more Chinese companies realise the importance of paleoart, they (including IVPP), start to build branding, like PNSO.

Dinotoyforum: Yes, and Recur, another new Chinese toy company. But these (PNSO and Recur) are not 'Chinasaurs' because they have brand names. Does this change how you feel about the use of the word?

WQ: Yes, it changes my opinion. My original feeling was that the traditional elite is laughing at copyright thieves with an arrogant attitude. I don't think those small businesses who made these cheap little dinosaurs many years ago would believe that they were creating an interesting phenomenon. My opinion is to use the word with a proper definition. I reckon Chinese paleo-hobbyists will embrace this idea.

Dinotoyforum: The trouble is that people might not know the definition and might make assumptions about the meaning of the word.

WQ: Indeed, so it might be good to put it in the forum for a further discussion.

Dinotoyforum: Maybe as a community we can agree on a definition of the word and then post that on the blog or forum for reference.

WQ: Yes, after wide consultations and discussions on forum.

[Crackington]

Thanks for posting this @dinotoyforum , it's very illuminating to hear Wang Qi's views on this.

I can see that the original use of the term "Chinasaur" was innocent, just referring to those models labelled "China",. However, as your post and Wang note, it does depend on usage and context.

I'm afraid in my opinion, the stable doors have been left wide open and the term is never really going to go back to just being seen as a descriptor for these types of models.

The Forum does not exist in a vacumn and people will interpret the term differently, many will see it as racist and be offended. I think Wang's initial reaction shows this.

The wider context is that racism is being exposed and challenged (rightly) in a massive way since the murder of George Floyd in the US.  Hence I don't think we should be using a term which has racist connotations now, no matter what it's origin.

It's also not difficult to see that sino-phobia is a real thing with some powerful global politicians trying to use it to deflect criticism for their handling of the virus. The Chinese state itself also doesn't help to quell this with its own draconian treatment of it's citizens, minorities (Uighurs and Tibetans) and Hong Kong.

This is a toxic mix which I fear is going to play out ugly in world politics as the virus and global recession goes on.

For our little corner of the internet, I thus think it's time to drop the term. We have a great international forum here, with friendship, respect and trust shown every day as people share their hobby. Let's keep to that spirit.

PS - sorry if I've strayed into politics, but I don't see how we can talk about this without acknowledging the wider context.

[ceratopsian]

I think that in the current climate "Chinasaurs" is problematic, especially in the context of a public exhibition.  The term carries such a broad range of undercurrents and inflections which are accessible to different users of the term, everything from a rather affectionate tone right across the spectrum to derogatory.  And of course, the same user can access several of those tones simultaneously.  While I don't think this is the time and place to tease out all those potential meanings within the term, we need to be aware of them.  It's feasible to define how we use the term here in the forum, where the members share the same interests and are familiar with this sub-set of the collecting world and its specialist vocabulary.  I think it would be a great deal less easy to define it for the general public who lacks that background to supply a context for the term.

[Stegotyranno420]

Dont want to be controversial or rude, but the word chinasaur is like the N-word. Used to be normal to describe a type of something, but now can be considered offensive.



P.S. Dont kill me

[Ravonium]

Dont want to be controversial or rude, but the word chinasaur is like the N-word. Used to be normal to describe a type of something, but now can be considered offensive.



P.S. Dont kill me

While not being considered offensive by wider society until comparitively recently, the N-word has always been used with the implication that black people are inferior - that's not really been the case with the use of 'chinasaur' and its relation to perceptions of Chinese-manufactured dinosaur toys (even when major Western companies outsourced manufacturing to China and brands like PNSO emerged to positive reception, the term was still generally accepted in this community).

That being said, I do agree with the general sentiment in this thread that the term is dated and offensive; I just think comparing it to the N-word is at best a massive stretch and at worst itself offensive.

EDIT: Guess I should also point out that this discussion has been much more civil and in good faith than it would have been a few years ago.

[Libraraptor]

This whole discussion meanwhile annoys me beyond belief. 
It touches so many  political issues that make my rage grow.
But all I´d have to say about this would be against practically every forum rule.
So I keep my mouth shut.
Let´s simply decide not to use the term Chinasaurs anymore.