Super Glue for Model Construction

[Derek Sohoza]

I've read in several places that the best super glue to use for model construction is cyanoacrylate. I've purchased this brand called Duro Super Glue, and it says it contains cyanoacrylate, but I'm wondering if it's strong enough to hold together my larger models I haven't put together yet (Shane Foulkes's allosaurus & Tony McVey's deinonychus). Has anyone used this kind of glue, and is there a glue that might have a greater concentration of cyanoacrylate?

[amargasaurus cazaui]

I often use a glue called "Hot Stuff" that is a super glue concentrate. It is designed for more industrial purposes and bonds within twenty seconds . It can be used to glue rocks together or seal cracks in lapidary applications. This glue is strong enough that if you were to construct a model, allow to dry an hour then slam it on the floor, it would break in new places rather than the glued joints.Do not ask me how I know that ...it was not pretty.
  Generally can find it on ebay for something like six or seven dollars for a 2 ounce bottle. The other nice quality about this material is you can use it as a gap bridger and seam eraser.

[Derek Sohoza]

That sounds like exactly what I'm looking for, thank you. I will definitely look into getting some.

[paleoferroequine]

   Here's more about it. In addition to "Hot Stuff" there are many other brands such as Mercury Adhesives(the one I use), Jet and Zap. All of these brands have several grades. There are thin watery types and gap filling and gels. I prefer the gap filling for resin and vinyl models. The thin sets up the fastest but runs all over if you're not careful. Cyanoacrylate isn't a concentration but a type of adhesive full name either Methyl or Ethyl 2-cyanoacrylate commonly called CA. There are also rubberized(for flexibility) and foam safe versions used in R/C airplanes. So make sure what you are buying. You can also buy accelerators which will cause the thicker types to set up instantly.
   CA's work by bonding to a molecular layer of water present on most surfaces, the main reason it bonds so well to skin. Be careful.You and the Allosaurus may become one!  CA's have poor shear strength but it's not a problem with models.

[tyrantqueen]

I use both cyanoacylate and epoxy glue. I like Loctite, which comes in a bottle with a brush attached to the lid for easy application. I use gorilla epoxy glue.  Epoxy glue is said to be stronger than cyanoacrylate, but takes longer to bond.

However, nowadays, if you're trying to attach something like a leg that is going to be supporting the model's weight, I would not recommend relying on glue alone. I use a drill and pinning to enhance the joint. I have used many many brands of cyano (Gorilla, Hot Stuff, Loctite, etc) and they all behave pretty similarly. Some might have a slightly better bond than others, but despite what the manufacturer says, they pretty much do the same thing.

Only for stuff that is small and light (for example a Tyrannosaurus arm on a Krentz kit) I would rely on glue alone.

I've assembled many model kits and I've experienced disappointment and frustration of having an expensive model fall apart because the glue wasn't enough to hold it together. That's why I pin my models nowadays.

[amargasaurus cazaui]

Never had "Hot Stuff " fail to bond and hold anything. The dinosaur bone spheres in my signature for instance , sometimes suffer from pitting or cracking and were sealed with Hot stuff, then ground on diamond wheels until smooth and then polished. It sets water proof, and can be sanded and ground just as if it were stone. I somewhat doubt it would fail to hold a resin model part, since I have used it to make cabachons, spheres and even to lace rock together for various purposes mostly Intarsia. I have also used it in paleo-prep work to bond two sections of dinosaur bone together tightly, or pieces of bone to a cradle or mounting. If it is not holding a model part of resin or plastic, there was something done incorrectly in the process.

[tyrantqueen]

Never had "Hot Stuff " fail to bond and hold anything. The dinosaur bone spheres in my signature for instance , sometimes suffer from pitting or cracking and were sealed with Hot stuff, then ground on diamond wheels until smooth and then polished. It sets water proof, and can be sanded and ground just as if it were stone. I somewhat doubt it would fail to hold a resin model part, since I have used it to make cabachons, spheres and even to lace rock together for various purposes mostly Intarsia. I have also used it in paleo-prep work to bond two sections of dinosaur bone together tightly, or pieces of bone to a cradle or mounting. If it is not holding a model part of resin or plastic, there was something done incorrectly in the process.

I don't use cyanoacrylate for plastic kits, plastic cement is a better option.

Sorry if it sounds like I'm bashing your favourite glue product, but Hot Stuff didn't work well for me at all, and did everything I was supposed to do (washing the resin beforehand, clamping, etc). The bond was brittle and broke with a light touch. Maybe the glue was out of date? I ended up throwing it away. I doubt I'll be buying Satellite City glue products again any time in future.

[Derek Sohoza]

Thank you, paleoferroequine, tyrantqueen, and amargasaurus. I always enjoy hearing everyone's position on a given subject.

I am curious about this pinning method though, tyrantqueen. Could you go into detail?

[tyrantqueen]

Thank you, paleoferroequine, tyrantqueen, and amargasaurus. I always enjoy hearing everyone's position on a given subject.

I am curious about this pinning method though, tyrantqueen. Could you go into detail?

It's a technique used by most model kit builders. It involves drilling holes into the resin parts and inserting metal rods/wires to reinforce a joint, and take some of the weight away from the glue thus reinforcing the bond. It's not as scary as it sounds, in fact it's very easy You don't even have to use an electric drill, I use a pin vice and drill bit attached which forms a simple hand drill.

If you wanna know more, here's an a step-by-step guide- http://www.ghostofzeon.com/diy/building/pinning_resin.html

A good tutorial site, which also covers pinning- http://www.gremlins.com/jim_bertges/first.html

Here's a video tutorial
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPzSzCU9X5Q

Some people might just be tempted to glue their models and leave it at that. I personally feel that pinning is a good idea, because it help protect your expensive investment

I enjoy building model kits too, btw

[radman]

Pinning is a must, especially for theropods balanced on one leg or a sauropod's neck.  You can't trust that to glue alone!

[Derek Sohoza]

Thank you, Tyrantqueen. Both the video and links are very helpful and informative! 
Always a pleasure finding others who enjoy model building as well. Although I'm a novice at this point, I'm hoping to learn more and master the skill.

[Derek Sohoza]

So while I'm waiting on more money to buy what I need to pin my models, I noticed a few things about one of my models that might make it harder to pin. So I'm not too sure what would be the best way to handle it.

My Shane Foulkes allosaurus model has a hollow torso, but solid limbs, neck, and tail. I realize this was done to alleviate how much weight was being put on the one leg, but that means drilling into the torso could mean breaking through to the hollow inside.

The leg it stands on is also at a bit more of an extreme angle than some other models. I don't know how other people attached it to the base, but I'm thinking if I'm going to pin it, it'll have to be diagonally straight up through the leg. But this means the pin would be exposed at the base of the foot.

Any suggestions?

[tyrantqueen]

I don't think you need to drill into the torso, all the model build ups I've seen of this kit did not have any rods or any supports attached to their stomachs.
Here is Steve Rioja's build up



In Ray Rimell's book, he suggests hiding the pin join with a rock or piece of terrain that would be attached to the base.

I would suggest that you PM some of our more experienced resin builders, who have had in experience with building Shane Foulkes kits- Martin Garrett and 0onarrcisto0 for example. Shane Foulkes himself could also be of help. All of the following members have accounts on here. That is what I would do, if I was unsure (I would be unsure in your situation too, considering this is such an expensive and beautiful kit)

I have never worked on such a big scale before, and I don't generally pin my models to bases (I only pin body parts to each other) so I can't offer much advice.

Personally I would drill very deep into the leg (the deeper the hole, the stronger the join will be)

[Derek Sohoza]

Excuse my ignorance, but what does PM stand for?

It is indeed a beautiful and expensive kit, and that's exactly why I'm unsure and want to take precaution before doing something that would be unnecessary or could ruin it.

I don't know how I would accomplish it, but I wish I could drill into the leg and base in a rounded "L" method instead of straight into either one.

[tyrantqueen]

Excuse my ignorance, but what does PM stand for?

It is indeed a beautiful and expensive kit, and that's exactly why I'm unsure and want to take precaution before doing something that would be unnecessary or could ruin it.

I don't know how I would accomplish it, but I wish I could drill into the leg and base in a rounded "L" method instead of straight into either one.

PM means private message. It's a message you can send to members of this forum, and can be accessed via a member's profile.

[Derek Sohoza]

I thought that's what you meant, but I wanted to make sure. Thank you. 

[bigbear]

For solid resin and white metal kits, I always pin large bits together. If I break into a hollow body, etc., I back fill the pin in the cavity with car filler or Milliput.

Vinyl figures that are on 2 legs get a filling of runny plaster of paris in the legs and the upper torso is stuffed with acid free tissue to avoid future collapse or warping. When set, you can pin the plaster filled parts as for resin, etc. and it lowers the centre of gravity to help it stand up. I only ever CA vinyl kit detail, as it seems to fix pretty permanently if painted. Sunlight weakens the join as with most substances in UV light.

Plastic kits are all done with a solvent 'glue'.

Vacform kits which are very large - over 3 feet sometimes - I usually build up in two halves, tape them together tightly with masking tape and fill the whole thing with fill'n'fix foam. Drill a small hole in one end, a slightly larger one in the other and spray the interior with water from a plant mister. Pump in the foam, allow it to ooze out of the holes and trim it after it is set. Don't try to remove it when wet, as it will go everywhere, stick to everything and make a huge mess! The foam reacts with moisture to expand, so a good humid atmosphere helps a lot. Once set, I saw the beast in two and then reposition the two halves more exactly together, gluing with a thick CA. This makes a light, but solid base to work with. To remove soft foam, use acetone - nail varnish remover.

Hope this helps someone!

[tyrantqueen]

Hey guys, if there is anyone out there looking for advice on glue brands for model kits, I have a product I can recommend: an epoxy glue called JB Weld. This stuff comes in two parts, and doesn't set instantly like cyanoacrylates do...but boy is this stuff strong. It has a tensile strength of  3960 PSI and withstands temperatures of over 550ºF. It's stronger than any cyanoacrylate I've tried. I like to use this glue in tandem with CA glues and pinning.

[fleshanthos]

We make Cyanoacrylate at the lab. You can order the beads, just google online, then add to some car-shop acetone in weights by volume that you like. I found out that 100g added to 200mls made for a pretty thick glue that dried pretty fast - classic Krazy Glue is waaaay to thin for neat jobs; I go with the thicker one for sure at all times.

The thick mix I made at the lab has bonded and held significant weights of Ordovician fossil shales. It just takes several hours to dry to full strength. All cyano bonds I have ever tried can fail with a strong shearing force.