Prehistoric Turtles

[stemturtle]

PREHISTORIC TURTLES

Many paleontologists now consider turtles to be diapsids rather than anapsids.  Lack of resolution of the origin mystery is motivation to collect figures of lepidosauromorphs, sauropterygians, and archosauromorphs.  Can you guess which shell will reveal the pea?

Format: Geological Period / Genus (Manufacturer)
Dinosaur Train is by Learning Curve. Kaiyodo is Dinotales. Yowie is Lost Kingdoms. Gone Extinct is by Innovative Kids.

TRIASSIC

Odontochelys (Razh00 on Shapeways), Proganochelys (Schleich), dark & yellow, Proganochleys (Dinosaur Train), standard & customized

CRETACEOUS

Sinemys gamera (Kaiyodo), Cratochelone berneyi (Yowie), Archelon (Gone Extinct), Archelon (Kaiyodo), Archelon (Starlux)

CENOZOIC

Adocus beatus, syn. A. punctatus (Dinosaur Train), Murgonemys braithwaitei (Yowie), Meiolania (Kaiyodo), Ninjemys oweni (Yowie)

Comments
Schleich Proganochelys is stamped Panzersauier; Stegochelys is an older name.
The Triassic species are stem turtles.  The rest are all cryptodires.

Sinemys was Jurassic to Cretaceous.
Adocus was Cretaceous to Eocene.
Murgonemys, Eocene.
Meiolania, Oligocene to Holocene.
Ninjemys, Pleistocene.
Fun fact: Adocus is an example of the family (link =) Dermatemydidae.
Classification update: Adocus is in family Adocidae rather than Dermatemydidae. Species has been corrected to A. beatus.

Please post additional figures.  Thanks.

[brontodocus]

Wonderful, stemturtle! Actually these Dinosaur Train figures are better than I thought! There are no more figures I have than the ones you posted, except for the alternate colour version of the Dinotales Sinemys gamera.

[SBell]

Wonderful, stemturtle! Actually these Dinosaur Train figures are better than I thought! There are no more figures I have than the ones you posted, except for the alternate colour version of the Dinotales Sinemys gamera.

Have to agree--there won't be much else in this subject.  Unless you start including modern turtles with their geologic lineage. Or anapsids overall (there must be, like, 5 paraiesaurs out there).

[stemturtle]

There are no more figures I have than the ones you posted, except for the alternate colour version of the Dinotales Sinemys gamera.

Brontodocus, how about posting a photo of the alternate colour version of the Dinotales Sinemys gamera? These threads are more fun if they are a group effort.

[stemturtle]

Have to agree--there won't be much else in this subject.  Unless you start including modern turtles with their geologic lineage. Or anapsids overall (there must be, like, 5 paraiesaurs out there).

SBell, I have trouble getting into pareiasaurs because of the strong molecular evidence favoring a diapsid lineage for turtles.  Would you care to share photos of your figures?

[brontodocus]

  Here's the Kaiyodo Dinotales Series 1.2 Sinemys gamera:

[stemturtle]

Here's the Kaiyodo Dinotales Series 1.2 Sinemys gamera:

Beautiful photo, brontodocus.  Nice of you to share.  Thanks.

[stemturtle]

PAREIASAURS

Scutosaurus (COG Ltd.) and (Wild Safari)

SBell suggested that anapsids could be reported with turtles.  Some paleontologists defend the hypothesis that turtles evolved from Pareiasauria or from another anapsid ancestor. Molecular studies cannot rule out this idea since there are no survivors of parareptiles to provide genetic samples for comparison with turtles.  The photo shows the 2 figures in my collection.

Please help out here by posting photos to this thread of any of the following figures, or other pareiasaurs:
Bradysaurus (Starlux),
Scutosaurus (Starlux),
Scutosaurus (Hasbro, Jurassic Park).
Thanks.

[SBell]

Well here goes:

Starlux Bradysaurus:


Starlux Scutosaurus:


JP Scutosaurus:


And that appears to be all.

[stemturtle]

Hylonomus (Razh00 on Shapeways)

Thank you, SBell, for the beautiful photos to complete the pareiasaur checklist. Hylonomus was previously considered an example of an anapsid.  Opinion has reclassified Hylonomus as a eureptile, closer to being a stem diapsid than previously thought. I think this is a wrap.

[SBell]

Thank you, SBell, for the beautiful photos to complete the pareiasaur checklist. Hylonomus was previously considered an example of an anapsid.  Opinion has reclassified  Hylonomus as a eureptile, closer to being a stem diapsid than previously thought. I think this is a wrap.

Yeah, I considered Hylonomus (there is the Razh00 one after all) but it appears to have been moved out of the Anapsida.  I seem to recall a reference in my database to a Captorhinus, but I don't have it here now, and am not sure which figure it is supposed to be (I know that the little rhynchosaur figure is labelled 'Captorhinus' in an early set, but it probably isn't one).

[stemturtle]

I seem to recall a reference in my database to a Captorhinus, but I don't have it here now, and am not sure which figure it is supposed to be (I know that the little rhynchosaur figure is labelled 'Captorhinus' in an early set, but it probably isn't one).

Quacks Like a Rhynchosaur

This is a repost from DTF v.1:

A Chinasaur similar to this photo is named Captorhinus on a printed label, as faithfully reported by rsknol and franchesca. However, the legs configure a posture that is more semi-erect than sprawling, resembling Hyperodapedon. Highly knowledgeable collectors, including sbell and Darren Naish, have called it a rhynchosaur. I cry, "Uncle." Let's say that this is an example of incorrect identification by the manufacturer, like the Starlux Placochelys and the Battat CRES Snapping Turtle.

Meanwhile, Captorhinus has been reclassified as a eureptile and out of Anapsida.

[CityRaptor]

This is a nice collection of Turtles! Did not know there were so many.
Didn't know that the Dinosaur Train toyline has such realistic pieces, thought they were all cartoony.
Panzersaurier is rather misleading, given that it is a Turtle. One also rarely reads Panzersaurier, usually it is gepanzerte Saurier/Dinosaurier and then it usually refers to Ankylosauria. Also Panzerechsen, which refers to Crocs.

Sadly I don't own any prehistoric turtles. Unless we count Gamera and this guy:

which is claimed to be the result of mixing 67% Triassochelys DNA with  33% Suchomimus DNA. Still looks more like a "Suchomimus" wearing a turtle shell, if you ask me...
Triassochelys as we know, is another name for Proganochelys. So yes, he is also a Panzersaurier.

As for Anapsids, I only have the Jurassic Park Scutosaurus.

[stemturtle]

CityRaptor, your photos of the Japanese monsters make me think that it is a good thing that turtles lost their teeth.  Those are new to me. Thanks. 

[CityRaptor]

Actually the fellow is not a japanese Monster. He is from the Predators DNA Fusion toyline made by Simba. Obviously far from realistic, but I kinda like these guys. They are also fairly well made.

[stemturtle]

To update this thread, here is a link to a photo posted by postsaurischian of Archelon ischyros as part of the Marine Reptiles set by Kaiyodo - CapsuleQ Museum.

So far, I have not seen the new Favorite Co. Ltd. Softmodel Archelon offered on eBay.

[stemturtle]

Proganochelys quenstedti (Nayab)

At long last we have a more realistic model of Proganochelys. The beginning of this thread shows other figures of Proganochelys by Schleich and Dinosaur Train. Total length is 4.5 inches or 11.5 cm., carapace 3 inches or 7.5 cm., scale about 1:8. The seller on eBay did not know the name of the manufacturer. The material is soft, hollow plastic, similar to the Softmodels by Favorite Co. Ltd.

 

 

The new toy has characteristics that help to identify this stem turtle. This species has only 4 vertebral scutes instead of the usual 5 centrals found in nearly all other testudines. Supramarginals are a secondary row of small scutes along the edge of the carapace. It has large spikes on its tail.

Next are a few changes needed to correct inaccuracies:
Neck - longer with spikes for protection, head not retractable.
Carapace - flattened curvature, scutes less pyramided, shape more square than oval with a jagged rear edge.
Tail - longer and more robust, ending in a club.
Color - brown is the typical color of terrestrial chelonians rather than green and yellow, although this Triassic species may have been semi-aquatic. The blue eyes need repainting.


Comparison of the shape of the carapace with a model made of Sculpey by my daughter.

There is still no consensus for the placement of Testudinata on the phylogenetic tree. Competing hypotheses propose descent from parareptiles, lepidosaurs, or archosaurs. It is hard to reconcile how turtles might have shared a common ancestor with Eunotosaurus africanus, while their genomes most closely match with crocodilians and birds. The debate continues over conflicting morphological and molecular evidence.

Edit: name of maker changed from unknown to Nayab.

[SBell]

That's pretty cool--does the seller have others?

[stemturtle]

The seller has one more. Sent you an email.

[stemturtle]

Now available on eBay.


Archelon ischyros (Favorite Co. Ltd., Soft Model)
Approximately 5.3 inches or 13.5 cm long, scale about 1:35

This Cretaceous species has been represented several times as a model. See 3 examples at the beginning of this thread.
While not detailed, this sculpture gives the feeling that the turtle is flying through the water. Only a central longitudinal ridge
is present, but 3 keels are sculpted on the Kaiyodo figure, more similar to the leatherback sea turtle.


Comparison with Archelon by Kaiyodo - CapsuleQ Museum


Archelon displayed at Reptile Gardens, Rapid City, South Dakota

This specimen is the largest sea turtle ever discovered. This cast has total length of 15 ft. or 4.6 m.
The original fossil was sold to the National Natural History Museum in Vienna, Austria.