Reconstructing soft anatomy

[amargasaurus cazaui]

I have been staying out of this fray mostly because I dont really have a dog in the race, but I would like to offer this concept at least from my own viewpoint. Often the inability or refusal to accept more updated reconstructions is based on cynicism and an understanding of how real science works.There is nothing we understand or know about dinosaurs that is set in stone, and as we find new evidence we have to constantly keep re-evaluating our thoughts and ideas based on that. Many of the ideas and theories that todays dinosaur fans are so totally certain of will be proven wrong given time and the right fossil discoveries. This is how paleontology as a science works. So many of us older people are reluctant to part with our ideas about dinosaurs for new and often not well proven ones that will in turn be cast aside with enough time and new discovery.
   A solid example of this would be many of the ideas that were presented in the "Dinosaur Heresies" which have since proven to be unlikely. While the concepts and ideas at the time had nearly every dinosaur fan chanting them from every blog and web site, once the actual science was given a thorough test it failed to meet the burden of proof.
   Naturally many people will say.....like what? What theories? The idea that all dinosaurs had to be warm blooded is a perfect example. We now know that approach creates as many problems as it solves. Were some dinosaurs warm blooded? That is almost a certainty, but not all were likely to have employed the same warm blooded stratgey as was initially considered likely. The science does not back the argument, however in the early nineties the idea was as popular as everyone trying to place feathers on everything from fish to ferns, today.
  I have had many people ask why Jurassic Park as a franchise annoys me so badly. i went to the first movie with high expectations and thinking I would see a dinosaur movie with incredibly accurate dinosaurs. Halfway through the film it began to be obvious the film was propaganda designed to support the warm blooded argument entirely in almost every scene. We were served up Tyrannosaurs hunting at night, and in pouring rain no less to underline the argument. We were given mist breathing, nose scenting raptors to further underline the argument. And if you still do not understand the point being driven home time after time, we are then served up rearing sneezing Brachiosaurus. In at least half the scenes of the first movie there is a double entendre being delivered to underline that argument. When I watch the film today it comes off very snarky and silly because of that ...given the place where we have taken the science since.
  A year or so ago i was part of a thread questioning how Stromer had reconstructed spinosaurus and I offered quite a few arguments against his reconstruction, and suggested he got it wrong. I was basically tarred and feathered for even suggesting that .
Sometimes it is good to question the evidence and gain a better understanding of what is and is not accurate. For myself anymore, rather than accept every cladogram or implied relationship, I try to find information within the fossils and the papers that supports the science or makes any other argument unlikely.

So, basically, your saying that tyrannosaurus shouldn't be shown as warm blooded? That it should move in slow motion out of its nest to bask in the sun, and never hunt in cool weather? That raptors having nasal spray is inaccurate, because they shouldn't be warm blooded?

Your saying that the whole point of jp is to drive home the idea that dinosaurs are warm blooded?

Lol....you seem rather good at telling me what I am saying without reading what I said. I did NOT say Tyrannosaurus should not be shown as warm blooded, that they should be shown in slow motion, etc. This kind of placing words in someones mouth is both annoying and insulting. Lets stick with what I did say instead.
As I previously stated, The original Jurassic park movie spent more than a moderate or necessary amount of time attempting to hammer home that dinosaurs were all warm blooded. To do so, many of the scenes were far too contrived and silly. In that context, the nighttime hunting in the rain by the Tyrannosaurus, the misting raptors that scented using their noses, and the sneezing brachiosaurus all as a total effect come off as being overkill and overloaded the film with this type of scene. That was what I said, and it is true. In this context, the movie did focus far more effort than necessary making this single point its agenda, yes. And the reason I stated why this makes the movie annoying for myself at least is because we now know much of it is speculative and that not all dinosaurs, (like Brachiosaurus) were likely warm blooded.

[Yutyrannus]

So, basically, your saying that tyrannosaurus shouldn't be shown as warm blooded? That it should move in slow motion out of its nest to bask in the sun, and never hunt in cool weather? That raptors having nasal spray is inaccurate, because they shouldn't be warm blooded?

Did you actually read what he wrote? He didn't say that at all.

He says that some dinosaurs arnt warm blooded, then goes on about the jp tyrant hunting at night.

Okay. Yeah someone please move this argument to another thread, the Jurassic World one perhaps?

[Yutyrannus]

Nostrils in wrong place, Giraffititan head, and elephant feet. It is better as not being shrink-wrapped though.

NOTE: You should not trust Jurassic Park's depictions of any species.

What's wrong with jps T. rex?

Bald, pronated hands, and of course "his vision is based on movement", oh and you know the fact that it is permanently eating.

[Ultimatedinoking]

I have been staying out of this fray mostly because I dont really have a dog in the race, but I would like to offer this concept at least from my own viewpoint. Often the inability or refusal to accept more updated reconstructions is based on cynicism and an understanding of how real science works.There is nothing we understand or know about dinosaurs that is set in stone, and as we find new evidence we have to constantly keep re-evaluating our thoughts and ideas based on that. Many of the ideas and theories that todays dinosaur fans are so totally certain of will be proven wrong given time and the right fossil discoveries. This is how paleontology as a science works. So many of us older people are reluctant to part with our ideas about dinosaurs for new and often not well proven ones that will in turn be cast aside with enough time and new discovery.
   A solid example of this would be many of the ideas that were presented in the "Dinosaur Heresies" which have since proven to be unlikely. While the concepts and ideas at the time had nearly every dinosaur fan chanting them from every blog and web site, once the actual science was given a thorough test it failed to meet the burden of proof.
   Naturally many people will say.....like what? What theories? The idea that all dinosaurs had to be warm blooded is a perfect example. We now know that approach creates as many problems as it solves. Were some dinosaurs warm blooded? That is almost a certainty, but not all were likely to have employed the same warm blooded stratgey as was initially considered likely. The science does not back the argument, however in the early nineties the idea was as popular as everyone trying to place feathers on everything from fish to ferns, today.
  I have had many people ask why Jurassic Park as a franchise annoys me so badly. i went to the first movie with high expectations and thinking I would see a dinosaur movie with incredibly accurate dinosaurs. Halfway through the film it began to be obvious the film was propaganda designed to support the warm blooded argument entirely in almost every scene. We were served up Tyrannosaurs hunting at night, and in pouring rain no less to underline the argument. We were given mist breathing, nose scenting raptors to further underline the argument. And if you still do not understand the point being driven home time after time, we are then served up rearing sneezing Brachiosaurus. In at least half the scenes of the first movie there is a double entendre being delivered to underline that argument. When I watch the film today it comes off very snarky and silly because of that ...given the place where we have taken the science since.
  A year or so ago i was part of a thread questioning how Stromer had reconstructed spinosaurus and I offered quite a few arguments against his reconstruction, and suggested he got it wrong. I was basically tarred and feathered for even suggesting that .
Sometimes it is good to question the evidence and gain a better understanding of what is and is not accurate. For myself anymore, rather than accept every cladogram or implied relationship, I try to find information within the fossils and the papers that supports the science or makes any other argument unlikely.

So, basically, your saying that tyrannosaurus shouldn't be shown as warm blooded? That it should move in slow motion out of its nest to bask in the sun, and never hunt in cool weather? That raptors having nasal spray is inaccurate, because they shouldn't be warm blooded?

Your saying that the whole point of jp is to drive home the idea that dinosaurs are warm blooded?

Lol....you seem rather good at telling me what I am saying without reading what I said. I did NOT say Tyrannosaurus should not be shown as warm blooded, that they should be shown in slow motion, etc. This kind of placing words in someones mouth is both annoying and insulting. Lets stick with what I did say instead.
As I previously stated, The original Jurassic park movie spent more than a moderate or necessary amount of time attempting to hammer home that dinosaurs were all warm blooded. To do so, many of the scenes were far too contrived and silly. In that context, the nighttime hunting in the rain by the Tyrannosaurus, the misting raptors that scented using their noses, and the sneezing brachiosaurus all as a total effect come off as being overkill and overloaded the film with this type of scene. That was what I said, and it is true. In this context, the movie did focus far more effort than necessary making this single point its agenda, yes. And the reason I stated why this makes the movie annoying for myself at least is because we now know much of it is speculative and that not all dinosaurs, (like Brachiosaurus) were likely warm blooded.

Sometimes you just have to hammer science into people's heads, i once spent forever telling someone that harvestmen are not spiders, and are not "the most toxic spider". He got all mad and left.

P.s. Brach was most likely warm blooded.

[Ultimatedinoking]

Nostrils in wrong place, Giraffititan head, and elephant feet. It is better as not being shrink-wrapped though.

NOTE: You should not trust Jurassic Park's depictions of any species.

What's wrong with jps T. rex?

Bald, pronated hands, and of course "his vision is based on movement", oh and you know the fact that it is permanently eating.

No proof T. rex was feathered as an adult. I'm sick of hearing the whole theropods couldn't dribble stuff. That I agree with (frog vision). T. rex has a big body to fuel.

[Yutyrannus]

Nostrils in wrong place, Giraffititan head, and elephant feet. It is better as not being shrink-wrapped though.

NOTE: You should not trust Jurassic Park's depictions of any species.

What's wrong with jps T. rex?

Bald, pronated hands, and of course "his vision is based on movement", oh and you know the fact that it is permanently eating.

No proof T. rex was feathered as an adult. I'm sick of hearing the whole theropods couldn't dribble stuff. That I agree with (frog vision). T. rex has a big body to fuel.

Yeah, don't even get into that. Anyone the permanent eating is still a huge issue, I mean what predator kills something, sees another creature, drops its already dead meal, and chases something else ! Besides, Tyrannosaurus and other large theropods likely spent most of their time sleeping.

[Ultimatedinoking]

Nostrils in wrong place, Giraffititan head, and elephant feet. It is better as not being shrink-wrapped though.

NOTE: You should not trust Jurassic Park's depictions of any species.

What's wrong with jps T. rex?

Bald, pronated hands, and of course "his vision is based on movement", oh and you know the fact that it is permanently eating.

No proof T. rex was feathered as an adult. I'm sick of hearing the whole theropods couldn't dribble stuff. That I agree with (frog vision). T. rex has a big body to fuel.

Yeah, don't even get into that. Anyone the permanent eating is still a huge issue, I mean what predator kills something, sees another creature, drops its already dead meal, and chases something else ! Besides, Tyrannosaurus and other large theropods likely spent most of their time sleeping.

Many animals go on killing sprees, foxes will kill every chicken if it gets into a "coop". Hyenas have been reported to kill large amounts of antelope, more than they could eat.  Don't go all yesterdays on me!

Besides, she ate the goat and the man. Those were just snacks, the jeeps the main course.

[Yutyrannus]

Nostrils in wrong place, Giraffititan head, and elephant feet. It is better as not being shrink-wrapped though.

NOTE: You should not trust Jurassic Park's depictions of any species.

What's wrong with jps T. rex?

Bald, pronated hands, and of course "his vision is based on movement", oh and you know the fact that it is permanently eating.

No proof T. rex was feathered as an adult. I'm sick of hearing the whole theropods couldn't dribble stuff. That I agree with (frog vision). T. rex has a big body to fuel.

Yeah, don't even get into that. Anyone the permanent eating is still a huge issue, I mean what predator kills something, sees another creature, drops its already dead meal, and chases something else ! Besides, Tyrannosaurus and other large theropods likely spent most of their time sleeping.

Many animals go on killing sprees, foxes will kill every chicken if it gets into a "coop". Hyenas have been reported to kill large amounts of antelope, more than they could eat.  Don't go all yesterdays on me!

Besides, she ate the goat and the man. Those were just snacks, the jeeps the main course.

What was All Yesterdays about what I said?

[Ultimatedinoking]

Nostrils in wrong place, Giraffititan head, and elephant feet. It is better as not being shrink-wrapped though.

NOTE: You should not trust Jurassic Park's depictions of any species.

What's wrong with jps T. rex?

Bald, pronated hands, and of course "his vision is based on movement", oh and you know the fact that it is permanently eating.

No proof T. rex was feathered as an adult. I'm sick of hearing the whole theropods couldn't dribble stuff. That I agree with (frog vision). T. rex has a big body to fuel.

Yeah, don't even get into that. Anyone the permanent eating is still a huge issue, I mean what predator kills something, sees another creature, drops its already dead meal, and chases something else ! Besides, Tyrannosaurus and other large theropods likely spent most of their time sleeping.

Many animals go on killing sprees, foxes will kill every chicken if it gets into a "coop". Hyenas have been reported to kill large amounts of antelope, more than they could eat.  Don't go all yesterdays on me!

Besides, she ate the goat and the man. Those were just snacks, the jeeps the main course.

What was All Yesterdays about what I said?

That after a small meal, theropods took naps.

[Yutyrannus]

Nostrils in wrong place, Giraffititan head, and elephant feet. It is better as not being shrink-wrapped though.

NOTE: You should not trust Jurassic Park's depictions of any species.

What's wrong with jps T. rex?

Bald, pronated hands, and of course "his vision is based on movement", oh and you know the fact that it is permanently eating.

No proof T. rex was feathered as an adult. I'm sick of hearing the whole theropods couldn't dribble stuff. That I agree with (frog vision). T. rex has a big body to fuel.

Yeah, don't even get into that. Anyone the permanent eating is still a huge issue, I mean what predator kills something, sees another creature, drops its already dead meal, and chases something else ! Besides, Tyrannosaurus and other large theropods likely spent most of their time sleeping.

Many animals go on killing sprees, foxes will kill every chicken if it gets into a "coop". Hyenas have been reported to kill large amounts of antelope, more than they could eat.  Don't go all yesterdays on me!

Besides, she ate the goat and the man. Those were just snacks, the jeeps the main course.

What was All Yesterdays about what I said?

That after a small meal, theropods took naps.

Uh, of course they did, have you seen lions and other big cats?

[tyrantqueen]

Many animals go on killing sprees, foxes will kill every chicken if it gets into a "coop". Hyenas have been reported to kill large amounts of antelope, more than they could eat.  Don't go all yesterdays on me!

Besides, she ate the goat and the man. Those were just snacks, the jeeps the main course.

That's true. It's called surplus killing, it's been observed in many species. Animals have been known to kill for fun as well. For example when a housecat kills a bird and takes it into the house. The idea that humans are the only ones who hunt for amusement is just wrong.

[Ultimatedinoking]

Many animals go on killing sprees, foxes will kill every chicken if it gets into a "coop". Hyenas have been reported to kill large amounts of antelope, more than they could eat.  Don't go all yesterdays on me!

Besides, she ate the goat and the man. Those were just snacks, the jeeps the main course.

That's true. It's called surplus killing, it's been observed in many species. Animals have been known to kill for fun as well. For example when a housecat kills a bird and takes it into the house. The idea that humans are the only ones who hunt for amusement is just wrong.

Thank you.

[Yutyrannus]

Many animals go on killing sprees, foxes will kill every chicken if it gets into a "coop". Hyenas have been reported to kill large amounts of antelope, more than they could eat.  Don't go all yesterdays on me!

Besides, she ate the goat and the man. Those were just snacks, the jeeps the main course.

That's true. It's called surplus killing, it's been observed in many species. Animals have been known to kill for fun as well. For example when a housecat kills a bird and takes it into the house. The idea that humans are the only ones who hunt for amusement is just wrong.

I know other animals kill more than they eat, but they don't hunt endlessly. Seriously, the JP Rex never stops eating.

[Ultimatedinoking]

Many animals go on killing sprees, foxes will kill every chicken if it gets into a "coop". Hyenas have been reported to kill large amounts of antelope, more than they could eat.  Don't go all yesterdays on me!

Besides, she ate the goat and the man. Those were just snacks, the jeeps the main course.

That's true. It's called surplus killing, it's been observed in many species. Animals have been known to kill for fun as well. For example when a housecat kills a bird and takes it into the house. The idea that humans are the only ones who hunt for amusement is just wrong.

I know other animals kill more than they eat, but they don't hunt endlessly. Seriously, the JP Rex never stops eating.

All she got to eat was a goat, man, and raptor. That's no roast triceratops.

[Yutyrannus]

Many animals go on killing sprees, foxes will kill every chicken if it gets into a "coop". Hyenas have been reported to kill large amounts of antelope, more than they could eat.  Don't go all yesterdays on me!

Besides, she ate the goat and the man. Those were just snacks, the jeeps the main course.

That's true. It's called surplus killing, it's been observed in many species. Animals have been known to kill for fun as well. For example when a housecat kills a bird and takes it into the house. The idea that humans are the only ones who hunt for amusement is just wrong.

I know other animals kill more than they eat, but they don't hunt endlessly. Seriously, the JP Rex never stops eating.

All she got to eat was a goat, man, and raptor. That's no roast triceratops.

Which leads me to another issue, why the Tyrannosaurus always after people.

[Ultimatedinoking]

Many animals go on killing sprees, foxes will kill every chicken if it gets into a "coop". Hyenas have been reported to kill large amounts of antelope, more than they could eat.  Don't go all yesterdays on me!

Besides, she ate the goat and the man. Those were just snacks, the jeeps the main course.

That's true. It's called surplus killing, it's been observed in many species. Animals have been known to kill for fun as well. For example when a housecat kills a bird and takes it into the house. The idea that humans are the only ones who hunt for amusement is just wrong.

I know other animals kill more than they eat, but they don't hunt endlessly. Seriously, the JP Rex never stops eating.

All she got to eat was a goat, man, and raptor. That's no roast triceratops.

Which leads me to another issue, why the Tyrannosaurus always after people.

Maybe she liked the taste of man? But then again, I've read that lions don't really like human. But who knows, she might have though they were tasty.

[DinoToyForum]

Sometimes you just have to hammer science into people's heads... He got all mad and left.

See, you just proved to yourself why you should never "hammer science into people's heads". A respectful, patient, communicative approach is always more likely to lead to understanding and compromise, for both parties.

---

BTW, everyone, please keep on topic.

[Yutyrannus]

Sometimes you just have to hammer science into people's heads... He got all mad and left.

See, you just proved to yourself why you should never "hammer science into people's heads". A respectful, patient, communicative approach is always more likely to lead to understanding and compromise, for both parties.

---

BTW, everyone, please keep on topic.

Thank you .

[Ultimatedinoking]

Hadrosaur nose balloons?

[DinoToyForum]

Sometimes you just have to hammer science into people's heads... He got all mad and left.

See, you just proved to yourself why you should never "hammer science into people's heads". A respectful, patient, communicative approach is always more likely to lead to understanding and compromise, for both parties.

---

BTW, everyone, please keep on topic.

Thank you .

You should all know by now! It is a forum rule. When the rule is broken it creates unwanted work for us mods and makes the forum extremely messy.