Re-issue of Battat former Museum of Science Boston Series

[loru1588]

This question has been raised in numerous fields of art 7 modeling over the years About 15 years or more ago there was the question on whether aircraft companies could sue model companies over making replicas of there product. Then it came down to whether or not a particular paint scheme on a car, train,  aircraft whatever was copyright protected. If you did a 2 dimensional painting and I copied it as a 2 dimensional painting and sold it I would be in violation of copyright. The fact that I used someones painting as inspiration on a 3 dimensional model is NOT infringing copyright. In fact I would be happy to mention anyones 2D work I used as inspiration in the hopes that someone might be interested in purchasing THEIR work because they saw my to. My $5.00 toy is NOT causing anyone of the artists I gathered ideas from to lose money.

The toy itself is $5 each but how much was the commission Battat paid you to come up with the new paint scheme? If they wanted a design created by somebody else that job could have gone to them, which indirectly effects the money making opportunities for that artist.

Again, not that this is something as egregious as directly ripping off a whole piece, but being hired to produce a design and then turning in somebody else's design is a little questionable. I'd feel better knowing how CM Studios / Charlie McGrady is cool with this.

Here's a complete copy of Charlie McGrady's email in response to my request.  From: [email protected] [Edit Address Book]
To: Daniel LoRusso <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Hello Charlie!
Date: Feb 15, 2015 4:43 PM

Dan, Hi.Yeah, sure, go ahead. Charlie

-----Original Message-----
From: "Daniel LoRusso" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2015 7:18am
To: [email protected]
Subject: Hello Charlie!

Dan LoRusso here.

I have a question for you. Battat has asked me to repaint the formerMOS series of dinosaur toys I took part in in the mid 90s. I found you paint scheme of your Styracosaurs inspiring and used it to repaint the Battat toy. Do you have problem with this? Here is a pic of my repainted 1/40th scale toy. I got a flat fee $200 for repainting it and I will receive no commission. I will be more than happy to give CM Studios a credit line on the tag if this works for you. The toy is 1:40th scale and is  about 5" long and will retail for under $8 dollars as far as I can tell.

Please let me know as soon as you can.

Thanks in advance and keep up the fine work!!

Dan LoRusso

[Blade-of-the-Moon]

Dan..you ARE the MAN!!!!

[Sim]

There's an update to a reissue I'd like to ask about, which I don't think has been mentioned on this forum...

In 1971 Walter Coombs synonymized a number of genuses with Euoplocephalus, which was followed for a long time, but more recent re-examination and studies of the fossils found these purported synonyms to be valid genuses of animals different from Euoplocephalus.  So, specimens assigned to Euoplocephalus are now separated into Euoplocephalus, Scolosaurus, Dyoplosaurus and Anodontosaurus.  Oohkotokia too, but there's disagreement on whether Oohkotokia is a junior synonym of Scolosaurus.  Unfortunately, many ankylosaurid reconstructions are actually a hybrid of these!

(Removed comparisons of the 4 ankylosaurids to avoid confusion, there's a better one in my next post)

I found this very helpful, it compares the skulls of Euoplocephalus, Anodontosaurus and Scolosaurus: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ankylosauridae#mediaviewer/File:Ankylosaur_skulls.png  Another distinguishing feature of Scolosaurus is its squamosal horns are proportionately longer, are backswept, and have distinct apices (unlike Anodontosaurus and Euoplocephalus).

Whew!  That took a while to type!  Maybe you already knew all of this, and I should've asked in a more simple way...

Now finally the question!  Are there any plans for the reissued Battat Euoplocephalus to be renamed and/or retooled so it's an accurate reconstruction of ONE ankylosaurid?  Hehe!  At the moment it looks like its mostly Scolosaurus.  While I'd really like any improvements/corrections to the reissues, I feel the Stegosaurus needs it most, followed by the Utahraptor and Gallimimus, so I'm happy you mentioned those three are priorities.

[postsaurischian]

Mr. LoRusso, I don't mean to sound disrespectful but could you tone down the use of curse words? We have young children on here (as young as six years old)

Thank you

None taken. I hate to say it but that IS toned down for me!! .......

....... correcting/improving the masters for the re-released series. The Stegosaurus is 1st on the list 4 spikes and a couple of more plates. ( I may enlarge the plates a bit also if that's they way Battat decides to go). ....... I also want to feather Utahraptor & Gallimimus.

I'm very, VERY pleased to read this!! Finally I can add the Stegosaurus to the collection.
I will surely buy some of the species again with their new colours. Feathering the Utahraptor & Gallimimus (resculpting the originals) makes it easier to do so .

[Simon]

[On a completely unrelated note, I must say that it is a real JOY to be able to hit the 'recent posts' button and to be able to read about something OTHER than that other toy line - yes, it is just a toy line and nothing more, whose name I will not type nor discuss ever again.  It was getting to be seriously boring reading around here the past few months.]

Yes, seriously BORing...if you know what I mean

Okay, ignore me, I'm just having fun

A finer collection of STOOGES, PLANTS and SHILLS has never, I believe, been seen on these pages before.  (And hopefully will never be seen again.)  BTW, you might need to crack open an old American slang dictionary to "get" that last line. 

[loru1588]

SIM. I'll pass this by Jim Kirkland. He's my go to guy when it comes to ankylosaurs and see what he has to say. The info I used back in 1993 was from a skeletal drawing of Greg Pauls as well as other info available at the time.

[ltokuda]

I showed my 6 year old son the picutres of the upcoming Battat MOS dinos.  He said, "I want all of them!".  Great job, Dan!

[tyrantqueen]

[On a completely unrelated note, I must say that it is a real JOY to be able to hit the 'recent posts' button and to be able to read about something OTHER than that other toy line - yes, it is just a toy line and nothing more, whose name I will not type nor discuss ever again.  It was getting to be seriously boring reading around here the past few months.]

Yes, seriously BORing...if you know what I mean

Okay, ignore me, I'm just having fun

A finer collection of STOOGES, PLANTS and SHILLS has never, I believe, been seen on these pages before.  (And hopefully will never be seen again.)  BTW, you might need to crack open an old American slang dictionary to "get" that last line. 

Don't worry, I listen to enough Alex Jones to know what a shill is

Now I've said too much

[Simon]

[On a completely unrelated note, I must say that it is a real JOY to be able to hit the 'recent posts' button and to be able to read about something OTHER than that other toy line - yes, it is just a toy line and nothing more, whose name I will not type nor discuss ever again.  It was getting to be seriously boring reading around here the past few months.]

Yes, seriously BORing...if you know what I mean

Okay, ignore me, I'm just having fun

A finer collection of STOOGES, PLANTS and SHILLS has never, I believe, been seen on these pages before.  (And hopefully will never be seen again.)  BTW, you might need to crack open an old American slang dictionary to "get" that last line. 

Don't worry, I listen to enough Alex Jones to know what a shill is

Now I've said too much

I was more worried about PLANT (hint- not the green variety)  If you listen to Alex Jones then you also know what a KOOK is *LOL*

[dutchdinolover]

I feel like i'm 7 year's old again. I want them all...

[tanystropheus]

wow, all these inside jokes are distracting me from the REissues at hand.

[Dinoguy2]

This question has been raised in numerous fields of art 7 modeling over the years About 15 years or more ago there was the question on whether aircraft companies could sue model companies over making replicas of there product. Then it came down to whether or not a particular paint scheme on a car, train,  aircraft whatever was copyright protected. If you did a 2 dimensional painting and I copied it as a 2 dimensional painting and sold it I would be in violation of copyright. The fact that I used someones painting as inspiration on a 3 dimensional model is NOT infringing copyright. In fact I would be happy to mention anyones 2D work I used as inspiration in the hopes that someone might be interested in purchasing THEIR work because they saw my to. My $5.00 toy is NOT causing anyone of the artists I gathered ideas from to lose money.

The toy itself is $5 each but how much was the commission Battat paid you to come up with the new paint scheme? If they wanted a design created by somebody else that job could have gone to them, which indirectly effects the money making opportunities for that artist.

Again, not that this is something as egregious as directly ripping off a whole piece, but being hired to produce a design and then turning in somebody else's design is a little questionable. I'd feel better knowing how CM Studios / Charlie McGrady is cool with this.

Here's a complete copy of Charlie McGrady's email in response to my request.  From: [email protected] [Edit Address Book]
To: Daniel LoRusso <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Hello Charlie!
Date: Feb 15, 2015 4:43 PM

Dan, Hi.Yeah, sure, go ahead. Charlie

-----Original Message-----
From: "Daniel LoRusso" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2015 7:18am
To: [email protected]
Subject: Hello Charlie!

Dan LoRusso here.

I have a question for you. Battat has asked me to repaint the formerMOS series of dinosaur toys I took part in in the mid 90s. I found you paint scheme of your Styracosaurs inspiring and used it to repaint the Battat toy. Do you have problem with this? Here is a pic of my repainted 1/40th scale toy. I got a flat fee $200 for repainting it and I will receive no commission. I will be more than happy to give CM Studios a credit line on the tag if this works for you. The toy is 1:40th scale and is  about 5" long and will retail for under $8 dollars as far as I can tell.

Please let me know as soon as you can.

Thanks in advance and keep up the fine work!!

Dan LoRusso

Well that settles that! Nice to know, because I'm a big fan of the CM designs (I also notice some inspiration rom his Brachylophosaurus, one of my favorite hadrosaurid recons ever, for the new Maiasaura).

Re: Euoplocephalus...

Yeah, the splitting up of Euoplocephalus has pretty much wreaked havoc on all previous reconstructions. I don't know of any published images that incorporate all the new data or aren't some kind of chimera. The biggest difference is the famous "double-headed" tail club is unique to Anodontosaurus. If this could be re-tooled into a flat,r rounder, Ankylosaurus-like club, the large Scolosaurus neck spines could easily be written off as due to extra keratin or something.

[Sim]

I've done some more reading, and apparently Euoplocephalus's tail club is known.  I must have missed this before.  Another distinguishing feature is the shape of the osteoderms on the lateral sides of the anterior portion of the tail - Dyoplosaurus's are triangular, while Scolosaurus's are conical.  This is the paper that describes the differences between Euoplocephalus, Scolosaurus, Dyoplosaurus and Anodontosaurus: http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0062421

I'll remove the comparisons I made in my previous post to avoid confusion, as this is better:
Anodontosaurus has pointed major osteoderms on its tail club and its tail club is wider than it is long.
Dyoplosaurus has a tail club with an elongated shape that's longer than it is wide.  It also has triangular osteoderms on the lateral sides of the anterior portion of the tail.
Euoplocephalus has a round tail club.
Scolosaurus has a round tail club.  Unlike Euoplocephalus and Anodontosaurus it has large, half-moon shaped osteoderms on its neck.  It also has conical osteoderms on the lateral sides of the anterior portion of the tail.

There are some other less obvious differences, like the head horns I mentioned in my previous post, which are explained in detail in the paper I linked to in the "Discussion" section.

Looking at the toys again...
The Favorite soft model series 1 Ankylosaurus has what looks like Euoplocephalus's head, Scolosaurus's body, Dyoplosaurus's tail and Anodontosaurus's tail club.  Hehe, it combines all 4!
The Carnegie Euoplocephalus is Scolosaurus with an Anodontosaurus tail club.
The oldest Schleich Saichania is Scolosaurus with an Anodontosaurus tail club.  I don't have it, so I had to look at photos of it and I'm not sure if it's tail is Scolosaurus's or Dyoplosaurus's.
The Papo Ankylosaurus has what looks like Euoplocephalus's head, Scolosaurus's body and Anodontosaurus's tail club.  I don't have this one either and I'm not sure if it's tail is Scolosaurus's or Dyoplosaurus's.

The Battat Euoplocephalus looks like it's head and body are Scolosaurus's, its tail is Dyoplosaurus's and its tail club is Anodontosaurus's.

SIM. I'll pass this by Jim Kirkland. He's my go to guy when it comes to ankylosaurs and see what he has to say. The info I used back in 1993 was from a skeletal drawing of Greg Pauls as well as other info available at the time.

Let us know the outcome, when you can.

Re: Euoplocephalus...

Yeah, the splitting up of Euoplocephalus has pretty much wreaked havoc on all previous reconstructions. I don't know of any published images that incorporate all the new data or aren't some kind of chimera. The biggest difference is the famous "double-headed" tail club is unique to Anodontosaurus. If this could be re-tooled into a flat,r rounder, Ankylosaurus-like club, the large Scolosaurus neck spines could easily be written off as due to extra keratin or something.

Hi Dinoguy2, your recent post on the Dino Toy Blog, as well as a post by Victoria (who I get the feeling is one of the authors of the paper I linked to in this post) on the Favorite soft model series 1 Ankylosaurus review I read a while back encouraged me to look into the differences between these ankylosaurids!  It's funny how many hybrid ankylosaurid reconstructions there are!  My understanding is the large Scolosaurus neck spines are something Euoplocephalus and Anodontosaurus didn't have, which is why in the paper it says Scolosaurus differs from Anodontosaurus and Euoplocephalus in having compressed, half-moon shaped lateral/distal osteoderms on the cervical half rings.

I find the separation of these 4 ankylosaurids has made them all feel new, in a way.  It would be really nice to have an accurate representation of one of them in the reissued Battat Euoplocephalus.  Or is it Scolosaurus?  Or Anodontosaurus?  Or Dyoplosaurus?   I really like its new colour scheme!

[tyrantqueen]

wow, all these inside jokes are distracting me from the REissues at hand.

Hehehehe

[SBell]

I will finally chime in here, to say that I am pleased that adding some of the original Battat sculpts in now possible. I will be less pleased if they turn out to also be Target exclusives, as the two-year, two-billion-dollar experiment that is Target in Canada has come to an end.

[loru1588]

I will finally chime in here, to say that I am pleased that adding some of the original Battat sculpts in now possible. I will be less pleased if they turn out to also be Target exclusives, as the two-year, two-billion-dollar experiment that is Target in Canada has come to an end.

Only the Terra Series is a Target exclusive

[SBell]

I will finally chime in here, to say that I am pleased that adding some of the original Battat sculpts in now possible. I will be less pleased if they turn out to also be Target exclusives, as the two-year, two-billion-dollar experiment that is Target in Canada has come to an end.

Only the Terra Series is a Target exclusive

Then I am back to simply being pleased. Assuming that someone, somewhere near here, in Canada, carries them. Or I can find a distributor and do it myself at my store.

[Appalachiosaurus]

I will finally chime in here, to say that I am pleased that adding some of the original Battat sculpts in now possible. I will be less pleased if they turn out to also be Target exclusives, as the two-year, two-billion-dollar experiment that is Target in Canada has come to an end.

Only the Terra Series is a Target exclusive

That's great to hear, but may I ask, will the repaints be sold at target? That's the only store I have around here! 

[EmperorDinobot]

Scolosaurus, Euoplocephalus and Anodontosaurus should be split.

[Dobber]

What happened to the pictures of the rereleases??

Chris