Knock-off figures - general discussion

[DinoLord]

Notice how the fake has a sloppier paint application and a big ugly seam running down the middle.

@ultimatedinoking: I honestly don't understand using location as a reason for not being able to get brand name figures - the Internet pretty much negates that. Shipping does not cost very much, and is in fact free on some sites like Amazon. Fact is, this hobby is not exactly a cheap one. But I figure when I buy a dinosaur it's going to be something I look at and own for at least a while, so it should be something of quality that doesn't have quality control issues/the risk of poisoning someone.

[SBell]

I have literally $30 to my name, so please don't bring money into this

but I think there might actually have been some misunderstanding going on here, by knock-off do you mean things like Chap Mei knocking off JP? or do you mean blatant copy molds? (which is what I meant)

We are talking about blatant mold copies, like the Holy Stones dinos that started this.

Not ChapMei or Papo taking inspiration from JP designs. Because at least they do the sculpt and l=mold work themselves.

[Doug Watson]

If i owned the copyrights to the sculpture and i was producing them for sale then obviously i would care but if i was commissioned by a company like Papo to make them a figure i wouldn't really mind because they would own the copyrights to it.

I see what you're getting at here, but I've yet to meet an artist that wouldn't be insulted or at least annoyed by someone duplicating their work, even if it had no effect on their own profits. For most people who do this sort of work, it's an issue of personal pride and propriety, not a legal or financial issue. Perhaps some artists would feel the same way you do on the matter, but I don't think most would.
[/quote]

Well, speaking as an artist who has had his work stolen by these criminals I can say for sure I do care and I am ticked off. I would like to use stronger language but if I used the words I'd like to use I would probably be sanctioned. Recasting someone else's work without permission besides being morally wrong is theft under our copyright laws. Unfortunately these criminals operate in places that don't respect our laws and are near impossible to get at. I mentioned before here how recasting of model kits in the 90s actually drove some legitimate companies like Horizon out of business. These criminals do not do any of the research I do before producing a piece like acquiring the scientific papers or sometimes getting the help of the scientists themselves. Heck they don't even sculpt anything themselves. They just wait until someone does all the hard work then pull a mould from our piece and make cheap copies. I haven't even mentioned the financial risk that the legit companies take when they produce a piece for sale. You may think it is just a cheap toy but they are certainly not cheap to produce when done the right way. The companies you should support are the ones doing the extra work to bring you new dinosaurs and taking the risk. Something these crooks will never do. If you buy a knock off you are supporting criminal activity and you are certainly not supporting the hobby. Believe me I am in no way flattered when someone steals my work, I am incensed.

[SBell]

Thank you Doug. I hope a few other artists chime in as well, but from those that I know, one way or the other, I am guessing that your is the 99.99999% majority opinion of creators (always room for error!).

Of course, we can never stop people from trying to 'save money' by buying a cheap rip-off, but then, you didn't save money on the figure you wanted. You paid less for a lesser version, and told thieves that what they do is okay.

$4 for a copy of a Geoworld dinosaur that would (should) sell for about $10-$12 isn't a saving, because you didn't buy the GeoWorld dinosaur. You won't get all of the info cards, the packaging, or, really, the care that went into the entire product. You got something close, but not right, ethically or physically. Same goes for any other copied figure (the oversize CollectA figures or the recent bootleg Safari set come to mind). They might cost less, but they aren't the figure you wanted, they're a poor copy.

If we need a better example, everybody here worthy of being called a dino figure collector is aware of the Play Visions series, and not just the magnificent Prehistoric mammals, marine reptiles and amphibians.  They got so fed up with the bootlegging that they stopped producing ALL of their sets, except for a couple of their high sellers (cats, dogs, crappy dinosaurs).

So by all means, defend purchasing bootlegs and ripped off models all you like, because encouraging good companies to stop just means you'll increase the values of the collections of those of us who own the real things (by which I mean that they'll cease production and no more will be made, thus reducing their availability to nil). And those of us who own them probably really didn't pay much more than the bootlegs cost originally anyway.

[tyrantqueen]

Some companies, like Safari and CollectA, have actively reached out to us as a community and even supported our diorama contest in years past. To me, purchasing illegally made bootlegs of their toys feels like spitting in their faces.

[amargasaurus cazaui]

I can say this much about the subject...you may feel wise today saving a few bucks buying a cheaper knock off but what happens when you are ready to resell your collection someday and your potential buyer backs out with the feeling he does not wish to purchase a colllection that contains figures with questionable origins? This can and does often happen, because someone chose to cut a corner collecting stamps, coins or comic books. At the end of the day you get what you pay for...if you do not mind that your collection will be non desireable to most other collectors, ruling out any form of trades or sales, then by all means. go right ahead. My money is on authentic, approved, licensed and sold material.

[Hynerpeton]

I won't sell these anyhow. Even though i rarely sell anything. Lol

[stargatedalek]

some people collect bootlegs specifically, something about a story behind them or such
this is referring to older no longer produced bootlegs however

its an intriguing mindset, but I can't comprehend it with current bootlegs

[Takama]

Just yesterday, I Found a Carnegie Collection Brachiosaurus Ripp off being sold at my local Walgreens for $7.00, and it had buy two get one free on the box

Thankfully it was the only one they had left. I was thinking about getting it, but this thread has got me into thinking that maybe I should spend my money on something worthy. Like Supporting one of our forums artists.

[Hynerpeton]

some people collect bootlegs specifically, something about a story behind them or such
this is referring to older no longer produced bootlegs however

its an intriguing mindset, but I can't comprehend it with current bootlegs

I like to buy both a fake and the real figure.

[Hynerpeton]

Just yesterday, I Found a Carnegie Collection Brachiosaurus Ripp off being sold at my local Walgreens for $7.00, and it had buy two get one free on the box

Thankfully it was the only one they had left. I was thinking about getting it, but this thread has got me into thinking that maybe I should spend my money on something worthy. Like Supporting one of our forums artists.

I would of liked that. Should of snapped a pic of it too.

[Yutyrannus]

Some companies, like Safari and CollectA, have actively reached out to us as a community and even supported our diorama contest in years past. To me, purchasing illegally made bootlegs of their toys feels like spitting in their faces.

My thoughts exactly.

[Takama]

I Have a pic on my cellphone, however getting it online from there is a pain.

[Hynerpeton]

I Have a pic on my cellphone, however getting it online from there is a pain.

Let me pm you.

I will buy the fakes if i like the color and design of them.

[stargatedalek]

some people collect bootlegs specifically, something about a story behind them or such
this is referring to older no longer produced bootlegs however

its an intriguing mindset, but I can't comprehend it with current bootlegs

I like to buy both a fake and the real figure.

that would be kind of cool, a real novelty to have for comparing

[Ultimatedinoking]

Notice how the fake has a sloppier paint application and a big ugly seam running down the middle.

@ultimatedinoking: I honestly don't understand using location as a reason for not being able to get brand name figures - the Internet pretty much negates that. Shipping does not cost very much, and is in fact free on some sites like Amazon. Fact is, this hobby is not exactly a cheap one. But I figure when I buy a dinosaur it's going to be something I look at and own for at least a while, so it should be something of quality that doesn't have quality control issues/the risk of poisoning someone.

I don't have a 💳

[Doug Watson]

/quote]

Oh, that makes it alright then......(bangs head on wall). In the interest of not getting banned here for life I have decided not to comment further on the pro knock off posts on this subject.

[Takama]

Nuff said

[brandem]

I like that tree though, wouldn't mind more models coming with trees.

[Takama]

If the Color was not the same as the Normal Carnegie Brach, I would have bought it.   Of course there's the slight chance that they based that off of the Brachiosaur that Louis Rey Painted, and the fact that Safari already did that was a coincidence