Knock-off figures - general discussion

[Syndicate Bias]

Exactly! Save up and build it up over time

[stargatedalek]

I feel like bootlegging companies, when they provide cheap alternatives to comparatively expensive products, and do so without significantly decreasing the quality relative to what you pay, are still providing a service. It's a service that not everyone agrees with, but it is still a service.

If a collector wishes to purchase bootlegs, that is his/her prerogative.

However, I take exception to the word you use. I would not call it a service. I don't think we should make any pretensions about what it is- it's theft.

What if I stole another artist's artwork and started printing that stolen artwork onto merchandise to profit from? Am I providing a service too? Granted, the analogy breaks down a little because a bootlegged figure is not the original piece, but I think it's a near enough one.

A better analogy would be bootlegged "designer" clothing, bags, shoes, etc. These are products that can easily be prohibitively expensive despite their production costs not really justifying it. If a company can produce the same functional product for $30 as the "designer" company that charges $500 than they are in fact providing a service. Again, not everyone has to approve of that service, but it is a service.

"An analogy is the weakest form of persuasion" - Scott Adams

I don't know where to begin. 

Do you even have any idea how expensive it is for "garage kit" resin model makers to create their models?  Or how small their profit margin is?  Or how small the pool of their potential buyers is?  It only takes a couple of "bootlegged" resin versions of their kits coming from the Orient for them to just say: "The heck with this - I'm not wasting my life and time making these kits for nothing!"

As far as "toy figures" go - they are not expensive.  Not even PNSO (with the shipping from China) was all that expensive.  If its too much for you to be able to afford at this stage of life (I know there are many students and youngsters out here), then follow the advice of another poster - save your money til you can afford them.  That's how we all did it "back in the day".

Or get a part-time job to help "finance your hobby".  You'll feel much better about "earning" the figures you collect, and you won't be helping the thieves who are robbing legitimate artists.

I would avoid quoting a misogynist and known conspiracy theorist.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Scott_Adams

I only presented an analogy in an attempt to provide a more sensible and tangible one, so there was no cause for that.

I don't know if you quoted the wrong post or if you're assuming my comment on designer clothing was intended in reference to garage kits. Designer clothing is produced by giant companies, with warehouses and underpaid factory workers just like any random piece of clothing you can buy from Walmart, the only difference is they have branding exclusivity and can jack the prices to whatever they choose because of it. Not equivalent to garage model or statue kits at all. I was responding to Tyrantqueens broader statement where she took issue with my phrasing.

For the record I've actually never seen a bootleg of a garage dinosaur kit. The only thing I can think of is the Horizon kits, and those are a different situation entirely, being no longer available and the originals actually being made of inferior materials.

Not once throughout this discussion was I intending to be specifically referencing bootlegs of dinosaur toys/figures. I've been deliberately trying to remain generalized. I've only ever acquired bootleg dinosaurs from second hand stores, I just don't hold anything against people who would want to buy them, or who feel that it's the safer decision for them to buy bootlegs.

Using profit margin as an argument is incredibly arbitrary. The products that I have purchased bootlegs of were all extremely expensive products, most $200 or over, where the bootleg version was extremely cheap (I'm recalling $10-$15). In a case where the bootleggers are charging $10 for something indistinguishable from the $200-$300 original in appearance and in quality control, you have to wonder who really has the smaller profit margin.

I am under no misconception that bootlegging isn't copying, but this community has a few members who get particularly aggressive and a few even try to strong-arm people away from purchasing within their means. Telling people to "suck it up and wait just like we did as kids" is not only incredibly condescending, but is actively discouraging and disparaging. That doesn't encourage people to save their money and purchase the original products, that makes people feel unwelcome.

A lot of people have no control over their income, and a lot of people genuinely can't enter the workforce. It's better that people buy within their means than stress over pieces of plastic that they can barely afford. People who are in low income situations should spend what they have carefully, and it should be their decision how to spend their own money.

For the most part they sell to an entirely different market. People who buy bootlegs are people who would almost certainly not have bought the original anyway.

And, for the record, do you even have any idea how incredibly insensitive most of what you're saying is? Statements like "It only takes a couple of "bootlegged" resin versions of their kits coming from the Orient" don't exactly make people feel welcome either.

[Syndicate Bias]

This went from 0-100 really fast lol.

As i stated i dont care what others do i know your response wasnt meant for me but I'm emphasising on the fact that "you do you"

[Seijun]

Here is the bootleg brass Carnegie Apato I sold recently:


It went to a buyer who grew up with the original plastic version, and they are thrilled to own this brass version. I was debating on using this piece as a doorstop, but I am really happy he got to go to a home where he is loved so much.

Just a "happy ending" bootleg story for y'all

I also have a bootleg bronze metal Carnegie Triceratops and Stegosaurus. I will admit that these metal knockoffs of plastic figures are pretty neat...

[Simon]

I feel like bootlegging companies, when they provide cheap alternatives to comparatively expensive products, and do so without significantly decreasing the quality relative to what you pay, are still providing a service. It's a service that not everyone agrees with, but it is still a service.

If a collector wishes to purchase bootlegs, that is his/her prerogative.

However, I take exception to the word you use. I would not call it a service. I don't think we should make any pretensions about what it is- it's theft.

What if I stole another artist's artwork and started printing that stolen artwork onto merchandise to profit from? Am I providing a service too? Granted, the analogy breaks down a little because a bootlegged figure is not the original piece, but I think it's a near enough one.

A better analogy would be bootlegged "designer" clothing, bags, shoes, etc. These are products that can easily be prohibitively expensive despite their production costs not really justifying it. If a company can produce the same functional product for $30 as the "designer" company that charges $500 than they are in fact providing a service. Again, not everyone has to approve of that service, but it is a service.

"An analogy is the weakest form of persuasion" - Scott Adams

I don't know where to begin. 

Do you even have any idea how expensive it is for "garage kit" resin model makers to create their models?  Or how small their profit margin is?  Or how small the pool of their potential buyers is?  It only takes a couple of "bootlegged" resin versions of their kits coming from the Orient for them to just say: "The heck with this - I'm not wasting my life and time making these kits for nothing!"

As far as "toy figures" go - they are not expensive.  Not even PNSO (with the shipping from China) was all that expensive.  If its too much for you to be able to afford at this stage of life (I know there are many students and youngsters out here), then follow the advice of another poster - save your money til you can afford them.  That's how we all did it "back in the day".

Or get a part-time job to help "finance your hobby".  You'll feel much better about "earning" the figures you collect, and you won't be helping the thieves who are robbing legitimate artists.

I would avoid quoting a misogynist and known conspiracy theorist.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Scott_Adams

I only presented an analogy in an attempt to provide a more sensible and tangible one, so there was no cause for that.

I don't know if you quoted the wrong post or if you're assuming my comment on designer clothing was intended in reference to garage kits. Designer clothing is produced by giant companies, with warehouses and underpaid factory workers just like any random piece of clothing you can buy from Walmart, the only difference is they have branding exclusivity and can jack the prices to whatever they choose because of it. Not equivalent to garage model or statue kits at all. I was responding to Tyrantqueens broader statement where she took issue with my phrasing.

For the record I've actually never seen a bootleg of a garage dinosaur kit. The only thing I can think of is the Horizon kits, and those are a different situation entirely, being no longer available and the originals actually being made of inferior materials.

Not once throughout this discussion was I intending to be specifically referencing bootlegs of dinosaur toys/figures. I've been deliberately trying to remain generalized. I've only ever acquired bootleg dinosaurs from second hand stores, I just don't hold anything against people who would want to buy them, or who feel that it's the safer decision for them to buy bootlegs.

Using profit margin as an argument is incredibly arbitrary. The products that I have purchased bootlegs of were all extremely expensive products, most $200 or over, where the bootleg version was extremely cheap (I'm recalling $10-$15). In a case where the bootleggers are charging $10 for something indistinguishable from the $200-$300 original in appearance and in quality control, you have to wonder who really has the smaller profit margin.

I am under no misconception that bootlegging isn't copying, but this community has a few members who get particularly aggressive and a few even try to strong-arm people away from purchasing within their means. Telling people to "suck it up and wait just like we did as kids" is not only incredibly condescending, but is actively discouraging and disparaging. That doesn't encourage people to save their money and purchase the original products, that makes people feel unwelcome.

A lot of people have no control over their income, and a lot of people genuinely can't enter the workforce. It's better that people buy within their means than stress over pieces of plastic that they can barely afford. People who are in low income situations should spend what they have carefully, and it should be their decision how to spend their own money.

For the most part they sell to an entirely different market. People who buy bootlegs are people who would almost certainly not have bought the original anyway.

And, for the record, do you even have any idea how incredibly insensitive most of what you're saying is? Statements like "It only takes a couple of "bootlegged" resin versions of their kits coming from the Orient" don't exactly make people feel welcome either.

Your efforts to justify what is common theft are not admirable. 

Neither is your (repeated) practice of dragging in politics into your posts (here's a life lesson for you:  Life is 99% NOT political.  Unless you just want to annoy people).  Let's stick to the topic at hand, shall we?  You are trying to justify theft.  That is what is "wrong".  And I don't need some ridiculous entry from the Internet to inform my opinion about that.

[Simon]

One more factoid for the inquisitive.  Virtually 100% of bootlegged garage resin kits and other toys are bootlegged in China or Thailand. 

The reason is that those countries do not respect, or enforce artists rights from "across the sea".  If you tried to do that in the US, you'd get sued.  Over there they don't have to worry about that, so they set up shop there.

Garage kit makers routinely refuse to sell to anyone in those countries, and have for a couple of decades, for that very reason.  They have all been burned selling a kit to someone who seems legit "over there", only to find a few months later that ebay is suddenly flooded with cheaper bootleged copies of their work.  I have numerous friends who are garage kit makers, and they will readily confirm to you what I just wrote.

Go on ebay and see where the stores are located that sell all kinds of bootlegged figures - you'll see that, once again, they are in those two countries, or nearby in the same region.  Hence my comment about bootlegged kits coming from "The Orient" is grounded in simple fact (not in 'feelings').

If and when the geographic center of this scourge of The Hobby shifts, so will my descriptive geography. 

[stargatedalek]

One more factoid for the inquisitive.  Virtually 100% of bootlegged garage resin kits and other toys are bootlegged in China or Thailand. 

The reason is that those countries do not respect, or enforce artists rights from "across the sea".  If you tried to do that in the US, you'd get sued.  Over there they don't have to worry about that, so they set up shop there.

Garage kit makers routinely refuse to sell to anyone in those countries, and have for a couple of decades, for that very reason.  They have all been burned selling a kit to someone who seems legit "over there", only to find a few months later that ebay is suddenly flooded with cheaper bootleged copies of their work.  I have numerous friends who are garage kit makers, and they will readily confirm to you what I just wrote.

Go on ebay and see where the stores are located that sell all kinds of bootlegged figures - you'll see that, once again, they are in those two countries, or nearby in the same region.  Hence my comment about bootlegged kits coming from "The Orient" is grounded in simple fact (not in 'feelings').

If and when the geographic center of this scourge of The Hobby shifts, so will my descriptive geography. 

You're geographical claims are not the issue, it is your offensive terminology.

And for the record, plenty of "Great American Institutions" slap their name on bootleg products, National geographic and the Smithsonian come to mind on short notice.

There is also a reason that so many Chinese companies own farms operating on American soil, some countries have more regulations than others don't they?

Spoiler

"An analogy is the weakest form of persuasion" - Scott Adams

I don't know where to begin. 

Do you even have any idea how expensive it is for "garage kit" resin model makers to create their models?  Or how small their profit margin is?  Or how small the pool of their potential buyers is?  It only takes a couple of "bootlegged" resin versions of their kits coming from the Orient for them to just say: "The heck with this - I'm not wasting my life and time making these kits for nothing!"

As far as "toy figures" go - they are not expensive.  Not even PNSO (with the shipping from China) was all that expensive.  If its too much for you to be able to afford at this stage of life (I know there are many students and youngsters out here), then follow the advice of another poster - save your money til you can afford them.  That's how we all did it "back in the day".

Or get a part-time job to help "finance your hobby".  You'll feel much better about "earning" the figures you collect, and you won't be helping the thieves who are robbing legitimate artists.

I would avoid quoting a misogynist and known conspiracy theorist.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Scott_Adams

I only presented an analogy in an attempt to provide a more sensible and tangible one, so there was no cause for that.

I don't know if you quoted the wrong post or if you're assuming my comment on designer clothing was intended in reference to garage kits. Designer clothing is produced by giant companies, with warehouses and underpaid factory workers just like any random piece of clothing you can buy from Walmart, the only difference is they have branding exclusivity and can jack the prices to whatever they choose because of it. Not equivalent to garage model or statue kits at all. I was responding to Tyrantqueens broader statement where she took issue with my phrasing.

For the record I've actually never seen a bootleg of a garage dinosaur kit. The only thing I can think of is the Horizon kits, and those are a different situation entirely, being no longer available and the originals actually being made of inferior materials.

Not once throughout this discussion was I intending to be specifically referencing bootlegs of dinosaur toys/figures. I've been deliberately trying to remain generalized. I've only ever acquired bootleg dinosaurs from second hand stores, I just don't hold anything against people who would want to buy them, or who feel that it's the safer decision for them to buy bootlegs.

Using profit margin as an argument is incredibly arbitrary. The products that I have purchased bootlegs of were all extremely expensive products, most $200 or over, where the bootleg version was extremely cheap (I'm recalling $10-$15). In a case where the bootleggers are charging $10 for something indistinguishable from the $200-$300 original in appearance and in quality control, you have to wonder who really has the smaller profit margin.

I am under no misconception that bootlegging isn't copying, but this community has a few members who get particularly aggressive and a few even try to strong-arm people away from purchasing within their means. Telling people to "suck it up and wait just like we did as kids" is not only incredibly condescending, but is actively discouraging and disparaging. That doesn't encourage people to save their money and purchase the original products, that makes people feel unwelcome.

A lot of people have no control over their income, and a lot of people genuinely can't enter the workforce. It's better that people buy within their means than stress over pieces of plastic that they can barely afford. People who are in low income situations should spend what they have carefully, and it should be their decision how to spend their own money.

For the most part they sell to an entirely different market. People who buy bootlegs are people who would almost certainly not have bought the original anyway.

And, for the record, do you even have any idea how incredibly insensitive most of what you're saying is? Statements like "It only takes a couple of "bootlegged" resin versions of their kits coming from the Orient" don't exactly make people feel welcome either.

[close]

Your efforts to justify what is common theft are not admirable. 

Neither is your (repeated) practice of dragging in politics into your posts (here's a life lesson for you:  Life is 99% NOT political.  Unless you just want to annoy people).  Let's stick to the topic at hand, shall we?  You are trying to justify theft.  That is what is "wrong".  And I don't need some ridiculous entry from the Internet to inform my opinion about that.

If you don't want things to become political than you should not make politically charged, uninformed, or provocative statements, and you should not force quotes from politically charged people into conversation. And that will be my final response to you Simon.

I felt like I should also post this publicly, as it is undeniably his true feelings on this discussion, and Simon felt it was better to try and hide it from public eye.

This is the PM Simon sent me, can screenshot to confirm if needed.

I would avoid showing off your "SJW"  and "virtue-signalling" cultural Marxist bona fides for the world to see young lady.

Some older, better educated people with more life experience (and IQ) might draw some adverse conclusions about it.

Personally, I have long ago come to the conclusion that everyone that has adopted that world view is a de facto enemy of every single living breathing human being on this planet - including the one you see in the mirror every day.

You have been sold a "life philosophy" that is measurably FALSE. (Hint: Google "Victims of communism" to see where the path that you have been brainwashed into following ultimately leads. I would say that would qualify it as "False" with an almost mathematical certainty.

Back to the matters at hand - political comments like the one you posted don't belong on a Board discussin dinosaur toys.

Just in case that went over anyone's head as I assure you it initially did mine:
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism

To everyone else; I understand that I can come across as overconfident, or even dogmatic, but this is not my intention. I am not in general a particularly emotive person, and coupled with a text format that only serves to emphasize that, what I say can often sound cold and detached, or even self-important. And I understand that I myself am often not the most welcoming person, simply by means of being so generally cold and unemotive in my vocabulary. I do genuinely try to avoid this, but often not to the desired effect.

And to anyone about to write me off for "constantly bringing up politics", please go back and re-read this entire event, piece by piece, and keep in mind this is not the first PM of more or less this exact nature (or the first from Simon). I get egged on more than certain members here seem to realize, and I do feel like a good amount of it is targeted.

As I said earlier, I don't typically buy bootlegs, and I'm never fully comfortable buying them when I do, but I still don't believe that people should be shamed for purchasing bootleg products. Especially not people who don't have the income to feel comfortable spending what might otherwise be several days worth of amenities on a toy. It's easy to forget that what seems like nothing to you could be a lot to someone else, and you can say "just save up for them!" all you want but that won't make someone more comfortable spending more than what they want to for something.

You can disapprove of the fact that bootlegs exist and still not behave aggressively towards people who buy them. Heck, you can disapprove of the fact that bootlegs exist and yet buy bootlegs when you feel like buying the original would be an unhealthily expensive purchase (that's me).

I do genuinely feel like a lot of the discussion here is shaming people for purchasing bootlegs, some of it intentionally and some not, and that's not ok. I am not "trying to justify theft", I am saying that this community has certain members who tend to behave incredibly aggressively when this topic is broached, and a lot of other members without realizing tend to back those few people up and it can end up looking very intimidating.

[Simon]

I believe that posting PM's in the open forum without the other party's permission is a no-no around here.  You were free to respond to the PM, or you could have forwarded it to the Mods with any concerns.  But I don't think that violating the PM privacy principles was a valid option.  We will soon find out one way or another.

Ironically you have - through your action - helped to further illustrate my earlier point:  Politics (or charged "political buzzwords") have no place on the DTF.  You seem to think that there's nothing wrong in sprinkling your posts with such terms (not to mention being condescending to other members some of whom are old enough to be your parents - or older).  Hence you should not be surprised that someone was offended.  The difference is that I took my political comments to PM, instead of posting them here.  I may have been a bit gratuitously over the top in my PM to you - but again - I expressed my displeasure the right way - via PM. 

[stargatedalek]

I believe that posting PM's in the open forum without the other party's permission is a no-no around here.  You were free to respond to the PM, or you could have forwarded it to the Mods with any concerns.  But I don't think that violating the PM privacy principles was a valid option.  We will soon find out one way or another.

This originally read:

I believe that posting PM's in the open forum is a no-no around here.  We shall soon find out, won't we?

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/426494287086092298/429084600338481164/unknown.png

*edit*
Only noting this because I perceive this as a threat.

*edit*
And again, for another edit.

I believe that posting PM's in the open forum without the other party's permission is a no-no around here.  You were free to respond to the PM, or you could have forwarded it to the Mods with any concerns.  But I don't think that violating the PM privacy principles was a valid option.  We will soon find out one way or another.

Ironically you have - through your action - helped to further illustrate my earlier point:  Politics (or charged "political buzzwords") have no place on the DTF.  You seem to think that there's nothing wrong in sprinkling your posts with such terms (not to mention being condescending to other members some of whom are old enough to be your parents - or older).  Hence you should not be surprised that someone was offended.  The difference is that I took my political comments to PM, instead of posting them here.  I may have been a bit gratuitously over the top in my PM to you - but again - I expressed my displeasure the right way - via PM. 

I am willing to tolerate a lot of complaints about my character, mannerisms, etc., but I will not tolerate bigotry or slurs towards myself or someone else.

[Simon]

I believe that posting PM's in the open forum without the other party's permission is a no-no around here.  You were free to respond to the PM, or you could have forwarded it to the Mods with any concerns.  But I don't think that violating the PM privacy principles was a valid option.  We will soon find out one way or another.

This originally read:

I believe that posting PM's in the open forum is a no-no around here.  We shall soon find out, won't we?

*edit*
Only noting this because I perceive this as a threat.

If you are referring to the quote above - I was referring to the fact that I forwarded your inappropriate post (with my PM inside it that I did not give you permission to post in open forum) - to the mods.  No threat.  I did it. My guess is that they'll agree with my point that what you did in posting a PM in open forum is a violation of the rules.  If they think the same of my PM to you, well, I've explained it already. I think that there should be a lot more leeway in terms of being disagreeable in  private exchanges.

[stargatedalek]

I believe that posting PM's in the open forum without the other party's permission is a no-no around here.  You were free to respond to the PM, or you could have forwarded it to the Mods with any concerns.  But I don't think that violating the PM privacy principles was a valid option.  We will soon find out one way or another.

This originally read:

I believe that posting PM's in the open forum is a no-no around here.  We shall soon find out, won't we?

*edit*
Only noting this because I perceive this as a threat.

? Interpreting it as a snarky talk-down from an old curmudgeonly fellow - that I can see.  A threat to what - your "world view"?  *LOL*

I was referring to the post you edited, which was a threat. You threatened me.

I believe that posting PM's in the open forum is a no-no around here.  We shall soon find out, won't we?

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/426494287086092298/429084600338481164/unknown.png

[Simon]

I believe that posting PM's in the open forum without the other party's permission is a no-no around here.  You were free to respond to the PM, or you could have forwarded it to the Mods with any concerns.  But I don't think that violating the PM privacy principles was a valid option.  We will soon find out one way or another.

This originally read:

I believe that posting PM's in the open forum is a no-no around here.  We shall soon find out, won't we?

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/426494287086092298/429084600338481164/unknown.png

*edit*
Only noting this because I perceive this as a threat.

*edit*
And again, for another edit.

I believe that posting PM's in the open forum without the other party's permission is a no-no around here.  You were free to respond to the PM, or you could have forwarded it to the Mods with any concerns.  But I don't think that violating the PM privacy principles was a valid option.  We will soon find out one way or another.

Ironically you have - through your action - helped to further illustrate my earlier point:  Politics (or charged "political buzzwords") have no place on the DTF.  You seem to think that there's nothing wrong in sprinkling your posts with such terms (not to mention being condescending to other members some of whom are old enough to be your parents - or older).  Hence you should not be surprised that someone was offended.  The difference is that I took my political comments to PM, instead of posting them here.  I may have been a bit gratuitously over the top in my PM to you - but again - I expressed my displeasure the right way - via PM. 

I am willing to tolerate a lot of complaints about my character, mannerisms, etc., but I will not tolerate bigotry or slurs towards myself or someone else.

What are you talking about?  Telling you not to clutter posts with political references is now "bigotry"?  Good Lord!

[stargatedalek]

Spoiler

I believe that posting PM's in the open forum without the other party's permission is a no-no around here.  You were free to respond to the PM, or you could have forwarded it to the Mods with any concerns.  But I don't think that violating the PM privacy principles was a valid option.  We will soon find out one way or another.

This originally read:

I believe that posting PM's in the open forum is a no-no around here.  We shall soon find out, won't we?

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/426494287086092298/429084600338481164/unknown.png

*edit*
Only noting this because I perceive this as a threat.

*edit*
And again, for another edit.

I believe that posting PM's in the open forum without the other party's permission is a no-no around here.  You were free to respond to the PM, or you could have forwarded it to the Mods with any concerns.  But I don't think that violating the PM privacy principles was a valid option.  We will soon find out one way or another.

Ironically you have - through your action - helped to further illustrate my earlier point:  Politics (or charged "political buzzwords") have no place on the DTF.  You seem to think that there's nothing wrong in sprinkling your posts with such terms (not to mention being condescending to other members some of whom are old enough to be your parents - or older).  Hence you should not be surprised that someone was offended.  The difference is that I took my political comments to PM, instead of posting them here.  I may have been a bit gratuitously over the top in my PM to you - but again - I expressed my displeasure the right way - via PM. 

I am willing to tolerate a lot of complaints about my character, mannerisms, etc., but I will not tolerate bigotry or slurs towards myself or someone else.

[close]

What are you talking about?  Telling you not to clutter posts with political references is now "bigotry"?  Good Lord!

Using racial slurs is bigotry, which you have done several times in public and several more in that PM you sent me.

I believe that posting PM's in the open forum without the other party's permission is a no-no around here.  You were free to respond to the PM, or you could have forwarded it to the Mods with any concerns.  But I don't think that violating the PM privacy principles was a valid option.  We will soon find out one way or another.

This originally read:

I believe that posting PM's in the open forum is a no-no around here.  We shall soon find out, won't we?

*edit*
Only noting this because I perceive this as a threat.

If you are referring to the quote above - I was referring to the fact that I forwarded your inappropriate post (with my PM inside it that I did not give you permission to post in open forum) - to the mods.  No threat.  I did it. My guess is that they'll agree with my point that what you did in posting a PM in open forum is a violation of the rules.  If they think the same of my PM to you, well, I've explained it already. I think that there should be a lot more leeway in terms of being disagreeable in  private exchanges.

That is exactly why I posted your PM. Because you think you can get away with saying whatever you want so long as people don't get the chance to look at it. I made no attempt to engage you in discussion of any kind, let alone through PM, your PM was unsolicited, you attacked me, and you did it through a PM in the hopes that it would get brushed aside.

[Simon]

Spoiler

I believe that posting PM's in the open forum without the other party's permission is a no-no around here.  You were free to respond to the PM, or you could have forwarded it to the Mods with any concerns.  But I don't think that violating the PM privacy principles was a valid option.  We will soon find out one way or another.

This originally read:

I believe that posting PM's in the open forum is a no-no around here.  We shall soon find out, won't we?

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/426494287086092298/429084600338481164/unknown.png

*edit*
Only noting this because I perceive this as a threat.

*edit*
And again, for another edit.

I believe that posting PM's in the open forum without the other party's permission is a no-no around here.  You were free to respond to the PM, or you could have forwarded it to the Mods with any concerns.  But I don't think that violating the PM privacy principles was a valid option.  We will soon find out one way or another.

Ironically you have - through your action - helped to further illustrate my earlier point:  Politics (or charged "political buzzwords") have no place on the DTF.  You seem to think that there's nothing wrong in sprinkling your posts with such terms (not to mention being condescending to other members some of whom are old enough to be your parents - or older).  Hence you should not be surprised that someone was offended.  The difference is that I took my political comments to PM, instead of posting them here.  I may have been a bit gratuitously over the top in my PM to you - but again - I expressed my displeasure the right way - via PM. 

I am willing to tolerate a lot of complaints about my character, mannerisms, etc., but I will not tolerate bigotry or slurs towards myself or someone else.

[close]

What are you talking about?  Telling you not to clutter posts with political references is now "bigotry"?  Good Lord!

Using racial slurs is bigotry, which you have done several times in public and several more in that PM you sent me.

I believe that posting PM's in the open forum without the other party's permission is a no-no around here.  You were free to respond to the PM, or you could have forwarded it to the Mods with any concerns.  But I don't think that violating the PM privacy principles was a valid option.  We will soon find out one way or another.

This originally read:

I believe that posting PM's in the open forum is a no-no around here.  We shall soon find out, won't we?

*edit*
Only noting this because I perceive this as a threat.

If you are referring to the quote above - I was referring to the fact that I forwarded your inappropriate post (with my PM inside it that I did not give you permission to post in open forum) - to the mods.  No threat.  I did it. My guess is that they'll agree with my point that what you did in posting a PM in open forum is a violation of the rules.  If they think the same of my PM to you, well, I've explained it already. I think that there should be a lot more leeway in terms of being disagreeable in  private exchanges.

That is exactly why I posted your PM. Because you think you can get away with saying whatever you want so long as people don't get the chance to look at it. I made no attempt to engage you in discussion of any kind, let alone through PM, your PM was unsolicited, you attacked me, and you did it through a PM in the hopes that it would get brushed aside.

Lets assume for the sake of argument that your characterisations above were true. (Although your assertion that I used "racial slurs" is not only false, but slanderously false). 

THAT. IS. WHY. WE. HAVE. MODS.

You should have addressed them with your concerns. 

[stargatedalek]

Spoiler

I believe that posting PM's in the open forum without the other party's permission is a no-no around here.  You were free to respond to the PM, or you could have forwarded it to the Mods with any concerns.  But I don't think that violating the PM privacy principles was a valid option.  We will soon find out one way or another.

This originally read:

I believe that posting PM's in the open forum is a no-no around here.  We shall soon find out, won't we?

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/426494287086092298/429084600338481164/unknown.png

*edit*
Only noting this because I perceive this as a threat.

*edit*
And again, for another edit.

I believe that posting PM's in the open forum without the other party's permission is a no-no around here.  You were free to respond to the PM, or you could have forwarded it to the Mods with any concerns.  But I don't think that violating the PM privacy principles was a valid option.  We will soon find out one way or another.

Ironically you have - through your action - helped to further illustrate my earlier point:  Politics (or charged "political buzzwords") have no place on the DTF.  You seem to think that there's nothing wrong in sprinkling your posts with such terms (not to mention being condescending to other members some of whom are old enough to be your parents - or older).  Hence you should not be surprised that someone was offended.  The difference is that I took my political comments to PM, instead of posting them here.  I may have been a bit gratuitously over the top in my PM to you - but again - I expressed my displeasure the right way - via PM. 

I am willing to tolerate a lot of complaints about my character, mannerisms, etc., but I will not tolerate bigotry or slurs towards myself or someone else.

What are you talking about?  Telling you not to clutter posts with political references is now "bigotry"?  Good Lord!

Using racial slurs is bigotry, which you have done several times in public and several more in that PM you sent me.

I believe that posting PM's in the open forum without the other party's permission is a no-no around here.  You were free to respond to the PM, or you could have forwarded it to the Mods with any concerns.  But I don't think that violating the PM privacy principles was a valid option.  We will soon find out one way or another.

This originally read:

I believe that posting PM's in the open forum is a no-no around here.  We shall soon find out, won't we?

*edit*
Only noting this because I perceive this as a threat.

If you are referring to the quote above - I was referring to the fact that I forwarded your inappropriate post (with my PM inside it that I did not give you permission to post in open forum) - to the mods.  No threat.  I did it. My guess is that they'll agree with my point that what you did in posting a PM in open forum is a violation of the rules.  If they think the same of my PM to you, well, I've explained it already. I think that there should be a lot more leeway in terms of being disagreeable in  private exchanges.

That is exactly why I posted your PM. Because you think you can get away with saying whatever you want so long as people don't get the chance to look at it. I made no attempt to engage you in discussion of any kind, let alone through PM, your PM was unsolicited, you attacked me, and you did it through a PM in the hopes that it would get brushed aside.

[close]

Lets assume for the sake of argument that your characterisations above were true. (Although your assertion that I used "racial slurs" is not only false, but slanderously false). 

THAT. IS. WHY. WE. HAVE. MODS.

You should have addressed them with your concerns.

I did. And then I also made an attempt to address this to others who were involved in this discussion, since your PM was in actuality part of your response to what I said.

Which I will reiterate all I said at that point up until I received that PM was that Simon should avoid quoting politically associated people, and avoid using offensive phrases such as "the Orient".
*edit* Added spoiler.

[Simon]

Please fix your quote marks above so that my post isn't intermingled with yours.  Thank you.

[stargatedalek]

Please fix your quote marks above so that my post isn't intermingled with yours.  Thank you.

Using the spoiler code twice did that, I'd already fixed it. No need to act quite so disgusted.


For those who still care about this discussion; what are your thoughts on doujin or "unofficial" products? And do you consider a difference between things using pre-existing characters or IP's that are made from scratch, and things made partially using pre-existing assets like fan-games or mods?

[Simon]

For what its worth, Stargatedalek, (since you have chosen to post my PM for the world to see), I apologize for the tone of the PM.  I momentarily lost my temper and made it gratuitously, over-the-top, offensive.  That was not appropriate. Please accept my apology.  Thank you.

[Syndicate Bias]

Im deeply insulted by the hot weather, its racist against Vitae Giganotosaurinis i tell you!

Its gonna melt it away, my poor snowflake dinosaur!

[postsaurischian]

- I'm strictly against any form of copying, duplicating and selling art without the artist's permission.
  Yes, to me Dinosaur figures also belong into the art section .

- Buying such duplicates is not a crime. Selling them is.
  So there's no reason to blame anybody who buys them.

....... here's a life lesson for you:  Life is 99% NOT political.  .......

- This is of course not true. Hundreds of thousands of political prisoners worldwide could tell you about it.

- Because of the subject of this thread it's almost inpossible to keep it unpolitical. Therefore it shoul be closed.

This is the PM Simon sent me, can screenshot to confirm if needed.

....... You have been sold a "life philosophy" that is measurably FALSE. (Hint: Google "Victims of communism" to see where the path that you have been brainwashed into following ultimately leads. I would say that would qualify it as "False" with an almost mathematical certainty.

- To believe that there is any type of society or religion in this world that does not use brainwashing, testifies brainwashing.

- This discussion is leading nowhere. Therefore the thread should be closed!