REBOR general discussion

[CityRaptor]

It would be nice if this forum could retain representatives from the industry.
We've lost Anthony Beeson, and we've lost the good folks from Mojo, as well.

Well, Mojö is not our fault. they simply lost interest in making accurate Dinosaurs. In case of Beeson I think he is busy.

[Tallin]

Actually I see this as a shame. I think it's wonderful to be able to share suggestions and opinions directly with the creators of the products, and it looks like that's not going to happen again. I find myself asking why people cannot just apologise, accept that they caused a problem and offence, and then move on? There seems to be a reluctance to admit error on both sides of this argument. I believe that Rebor were indeed enthusiastic fans of this hobby, and you can see that in their work. They were still quite new to the forum though and in time once they had settled into the industry and taken a firm hold of their place in the market, they may have contributed more to other areas of the forum.

One can see by the sheer number of fans of their FB page that we are indeed not the majority, so they weren't doing anything wrong producing models that straddled the gap between aweseombro and accurate.

But that's just one member's opinion.

[Shonisaurus]

From my humble point of view what I observe that there are some companies that normally go dinosaurs quite favored in forums, such as Papo and obviously Safari / Carnegie.

Whatever they are excellent companies, also they have their mistakes, as has been seen in recent years with the company Carnegie.

Moreover I understand it is logical that Rebor have faults, is a company that has started from scratch, but if successful as a company, may be perhaps the most important or one of the most important companies in dinosaurs, rather than collecting that toy , time to time.

Moreover what I want from Rebor as I said sometimes dinosaurs that realizen independent of time that are in production are dinosaurs and prehistoric animals for adult collectors and most importantly are reference for décadsa, ie other than Typical dinosaurs to last in the mind of the buyer is a collector or not for five years but are educational models that serve to every fan in the world of prehistory for decades.

Moreover as Takama says it would be interesting Rebor would make one Masiakasaurus is an interesting animal, and also has not yet been realized in the toy market.

Moreover regardless of the criticisms made in the forum on the tyrannosaurus I was unable to access the facebook page to links where indicate that elsewhere the tyrannosaurus rex is the first figure of last year 2014, well ahead of mosasaurus and the arsinoitherium the second and third places are awarded. It may be the cause for Rebor be hurt against the forum.

But then what I do not like the tyrannosaurus is Rebor not hold autonomously and have to be forced to rely on the artificial rock.

[Arul]

Changed, im sorry guys yes there is no haters there is only argument. But, it just feels like rebor never doing a right thing in here for some member...so sad rebor leaving i hope they still visit this forum so they know that some of member here love them. Some of us are very happy (come on, not only me right ?) we have someone from our favorite company to communicate with us, but then this happen...

[suspsy]

Wow, I go to sleep and this is what I wake up to.

In one sense, it is indeed unfortunate that REBOR Studios has chosen to leave. There were (and are) a lot of fans who were really excited and happy about all the sneak previews and the insight into how the process works. And as I've mentioned before, there can be no question that the REBOR artists have genuine talent.

That said, REBOR Studios' behaviour here was wanting at best and disgraceful at worst. They took nearly every bit of constructive criticism as a personal affront. They traded insults with people. They openly attacked other companies and artists. They had to be persuaded to apologize (sloppily) to Doug Watson. They made unprovable accusations of ratings based purely on spite. They encouraged their FB fans to berate the DTB. And they constantly played the victim. Nothing was ever their fault. Even their farewell post was nothing more than a mean-spirited attempt at creating division.

If REBOR Studios hopes to expand and grow as a company, then they need to grow a thicker skin, deflate their ego some more, and act more maturely and professionally. Again, I'm sad for the fans who were so enthusiastic about upcoming products, but aside from that, this outcome is for the best.

[suspsy]

I have to admit too, I'd have been curious to know more about REBOR's "detailed and reliable marketing research results which indicate that the majority care more about the overall appearance than scientific accuracy." What kind of research did they conduct? How big was their sampling pool?

Because if scientific accuracy really isn't that big a deal in our circles, then why are Battat, CollectA, Kaiyodo, and Safari so hugely popular?

And as tanystropheus pointed out, there's no reason why accurate dinosaur models can't also be 'awesomebro' (gads, I despise that term).

[CityRaptor]

One of the comments at the Facebook post, some guy named Jeffrey Shine, who is apparently a designer, pointed out that we would only care about accurate models, which is why he no longer posts here. Quite the opposite of the ones who claimed that we only cared about the other models because they were old...

Anyways, REBOR's claims regarding the Awesomebro-ness of their models remind me of this clip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kltVPhhza7U

I guess one can say that in this case:
Claire = REBOR
Owen = DTF

[Manatee]

Actually I see this as a shame. I think it's wonderful to be able to share suggestions and opinions directly with the creators of the products, and it looks like that's not going to happen again. I find myself asking why people cannot just apologise, accept that they caused a problem and offence, and then move on? There seems to be a reluctance to admit error on both sides of this argument. I believe that Rebor were indeed enthusiastic fans of this hobby, and you can see that in their work. They were still quite new to the forum though and in time once they had settled into the industry and taken a firm hold of their place in the market, they may have contributed more to other areas of the forum.

One can see by the sheer number of fans of their FB page that we are indeed not the majority, so they weren't doing anything wrong producing models that straddled the gap between aweseombro and accurate.

But that's just one member's opinion.

Very true. Although I too am disappointed by REBOR's leaving the forum, I think it was likely for the best, as it seemed all their presence did here was stir things up and cause arguments. As for their "research," I suppose they're likely correct; by the looks of their Facebook profile and then here, it certainly gives the impression that the people who don't quite care as much about scientific accuracy comprise most of our collecting community, whether we like it or not. Obviously that's not conclusive, but still.

Also, I was thinking of that exact clip from JW when reading over all the stuff that's been going on for the past couple days. It just fits so well.

[Shonisaurus]

It's a shame that Rebor has left the forum. But we must point out two things.

They should not impose their views, because votes have been unfavorable as regards the tyrannosaurus and ceratosaurus. People are free to decide when. Obviously not going to pretend that people vote what they want.

Also for instance I am a supporter that Safari would make one Xiphactinus as prehistoric marine animal and the most votes is the Nothosaurus. The vote is free and in my case as is logical and natural not going to impose metaphorically with a machine gun to get people to accept my tastes, I recognize that from a commercial point of view has more departures on Nothosaurus. Moreover this company apart from Safari, as usual, according to their commercial and business criteria which prehistoric creatures will elect in 2016. Each vote what he pleases. Just missing a business or user pretendiesen impose their will on the people or the best pretendiesen influence the votes of the members of the forum.

I understand that Rebor should have more professional maturity and understand that not everyone can to like his figures, such as there will be many people who have a negative perception about dinosaurs and prehistoric animals diametrically opposed to our tastes, and so happens in all aspects of life.

We must be more open to dialogue and compromisers. Leaving the forum for a tantrum is not the smart way to go.

[Shadowknight1]

Well, if Rebor has chosen to leave, then it is up to the fans to find the news to report here. 

Rebor was asked on FB iff they had plans for Allosaurus fragilis.  They said that they considered A. fragilis too small and were going bigger.  I don't know as much about the genus as I'd like, but a bit of cursory research leads me to believe that they might mean Saurophagonax maximus.

[Tyrannosauron]

Wow, I go to sleep and this is what I wake up to.

In one sense, it is indeed unfortunate that REBOR Studios has chosen to leave. There were (and are) a lot of fans who were really excited and happy about all the sneak previews and the insight into how the process works. And as I've mentioned before, there can be no question that the REBOR artists have genuine talent.

That said, REBOR Studios' behaviour here was wanting at best and disgraceful at worst. They took nearly every bit of constructive criticism as a personal affront. They traded insults with people. They openly attacked other companies and artists. They had to be persuaded to apologize (sloppily) to Doug Watson. They made unprovable accusations of ratings based purely on spite. They encouraged their FB fans to berate the DTB. And they constantly played the victim. Nothing was ever their fault. Even their farewell post was nothing more than a mean-spirited attempt at creating division.

If REBOR Studios hopes to expand and grow as a company, then they need to grow a thicker skin, deflate their ego some more, and act more maturely and professionally. Again, I'm sad for the fans who were so enthusiastic about upcoming products, but aside from that, this outcome is for the best.

Agreed. It's a shame to see them go, but not as much of a shame that the representative just couldn't get the "don't be insulting" message. For all the lamentation about how critical these boards can be, the reason that the representative left was not because of a debate over scientific accuracy, nor because of an effort to "impose" any views on anything; it was because (s)he was asked not to be disrespectful or spiteful and that was apparently too much.

[stargatedalek]

I have to admit too, I'd have been curious to know more about REBOR's "detailed and reliable marketing research results which indicate that the majority care more about the overall appearance than scientific accuracy." What kind of research did they conduct? How big was their sampling pool?

What I'm curious of is if scientific accuracy sells so poorly than why would they knowingly lie about their products and pretend they were accurate? Something has definitely not been adding up here with their claims.

I've said it before and I will say it again, I have no beef with inaccurate models, my initial distaste of Rebor came from misleading or outright deceitful marketing, and later for their behavior and attacks against this community.

[tyrantqueen]

It's too bad that they left. It's no big loss to me because I don't buy and don't like their products, but I have nothing against them personally and I hope things work out well for them. I'm sure they'll do well without us.

[Simon]

I have to admit too, I'd have been curious to know more about REBOR's "detailed and reliable marketing research results which indicate that the majority care more about the overall appearance than scientific accuracy." What kind of research did they conduct? How big was their sampling pool?

What I'm curious of is if scientific accuracy sells so poorly than why would they knowingly lie about their products and pretend they were accurate? Something has definitely not been adding up here with their claims.

I've said it before and I will say it again, I have no beef with inaccurate models, my initial distaste of Rebor came from misleading or outright deceitful marketing, and later for their behavior and attacks against this community.

All good points.  The simple fact is that the manufacturer decides what the dinosaur looks like.  And that is what drives the buyers' expectations. 

For example, the King TRex was an obvious attempt at making a hyper realistic and accurate figure.  However, the width of the head was also pretty clearly a major slip-up by the sculptor.  So instead of admitting that fact, we were treated to endless arguments about how the dino wasn't supposed to look like the "real thing".  But a cursory look shows that every inch of the rest of that sculpt was indeed anatomically accurate. 

Hence the "we were just making awesomebro not accuracybro" argument was nothing but a thinly veiled attempt to duck responsibility for having poor quality/accuracy control over the making of that particular sculpture. Why?  Your guess is as good as mine.  I will just make the general observation, without getting into too much pop psychology, that the person(s) posting here on their behalf were a little bit too "sensitive to criticism" for their own good.

I am glad that they have left because now there can (hopefully) be calm discussions about these figures without having the manufacturer jumping in to defend every single perceived slight, insult, or observation.  And then getting their allies engaged in making new accounts to serve as their "amen corner".

[As an aside - you think that if they invested as much time in accuracy/quality control as they did in defending and dissembling on this board some of the problems with the figures might have been avoided?]

The problem with the representative(s) of this manufacturer on this board from DAY 1 was their attitude, not their figures (which are worthwhile buying and show every sign of improving). 

On an entirely different level, looking at the time and effort they put into trying to woo/bully/take over this forum, you'd think that the DTF has some sort of make-or-break power over the sales statistics for their figures.  Which - no disrespect to the DTF meant here - is comical.  The DTF is a board for a teeny, tiny group of folks interested in the subject, not some mass-opinion-swaying "800-lb gorilla".

Whether they ever joined here or not would probably have had a net ZERO effect on the number of their sales.

[tanystropheus]

I have to admit too, I'd have been curious to know more about REBOR's "detailed and reliable marketing research results which indicate that the majority care more about the overall appearance than scientific accuracy." What kind of research did they conduct? How big was their sampling pool?

What I'm curious of is if scientific accuracy sells so poorly than why would they knowingly lie about their products and pretend they were accurate? Something has definitely not been adding up here with their claims.

I've said it before and I will say it again, I have no beef with inaccurate models, my initial distaste of Rebor came from misleading or outright deceitful marketing, and later for their behavior and attacks against this community.

For example, the King TRex was an obvious attempt at making a hyper realistic and accurate figure.  However, the width of the head was also pretty clearly a major slip-up by the sculptor.  So instead of admitting that fact, we were treated to endless arguments about how the dino wasn't supposed to look like the "real thing".  But a cursory look shows that every inch of the rest of that sculpt was indeed anatomically accurate. 

The body was accurate, but the head sculpt was inspired by JP. This poses an issue with respect to labeling.
The same can be said about the LE "Lock", "Stock" and "Barrel". The egg shell encasings are accurate, but the raptors are inspired by JP. Fortunately, it is not being marketing as an accurate piece.

[tanystropheus]

It's too bad that they left. It's no big loss to me because I don't buy and don't like their products, but I have nothing against them personally and I hope things work out well for them. I'm sure they'll do well without us.

As a new company that rapidly gained momentum, I think they have tremendous potential to expand (even more so than Papo or CollectA), and therefore offer something for everyone. However, they need to stay focused and not get sidetracked. I think fans and collectors of model kits and Sideshow will also embrace REBOR over time, assuming that they offer (1) smaller (2) obscure and (3) accurate species. I also believe that they will really start to shine when they introduce non-theropod core models.

[tanystropheus]

I have to admit too, I'd have been curious to know more about REBOR's "detailed and reliable marketing research results which indicate that the majority care more about the overall appearance than scientific accuracy." What kind of research did they conduct? How big was their sampling pool?

Because if scientific accuracy really isn't that big a deal in our circles, then why are Battat, CollectA, Kaiyodo, and Safari so hugely popular?

REBOR's most recent FB post suggests a grander vision and plan. They want to slowly but methodically introduce the world to the the notion of feathered dinosaurs, namely, that feathered dinosaur models can maintain accuracy while concurrently being 'awesomebro'. If REBOR succeeds, they might be one of the first mainstream companies to have done so. As of now, Papo only has the Archeopteryx. The WS Guanlong and Carnegie Velociraptor's feathers are a bit lacking. Favorite seems to lack faith altogether in their obscure models (including their incredibly well-made feathered dinosaur, the Pelecanimimus) as they relegate them to the status of limited, local release.

[tanystropheus]

It would be nice if this forum could retain representatives from the industry.
We've lost Anthony Beeson, and we've lost the good folks from Mojo, as well.

Well, Mojö is not our fault. they simply lost interest in making accurate Dinosaurs. In case of Beeson I think he is busy.

Yeah, I don't understand Mojo. They made an amazing tetrad of prehistoric mammals and then they fled the scene, inexplicably.

I wish REBOR well and I hope that they perfect their formula for manufacturing dinosaurs. 5 years ago, I created a thread on the old DTF called, "Papo-like dinosaur toys":

http://dinotoyforum.proboards.com/thread/3234

I was disappointed that there were only about a handful of dinosaur models that approached the textural, and aesthetic (life-like) quality of Papo at the time. Never in my wildest dreams did I imagine a newer company to triumphantly eclipse Papo.

REBOR is the answer to that thread that I 'published' in 2010.

[suspsy]

I have to admit too, I'd have been curious to know more about REBOR's "detailed and reliable marketing research results which indicate that the majority care more about the overall appearance than scientific accuracy." What kind of research did they conduct? How big was their sampling pool?

Because if scientific accuracy really isn't that big a deal in our circles, then why are Battat, CollectA, Kaiyodo, and Safari so hugely popular?

REBOR's most recent FB post suggests a grander vision and plan. They want to slowly but methodically introduce the world to the the notion of feathered dinosaurs, namely, that feathered dinosaur models can maintain accuracy while concurrently being 'awesomebro'. If REBOR succeeds, they might be one of the first mainstream companies to have done so. As of now, Papo only has the Archeopteryx.

There was a recent revelation from the Korean Papo sculptor that he's working on a feathered Velociraptor. Papo is slowly coming around.

The WS Guanlong and Carnegie Velociraptor's feathers are a bit lacking. [/quote]

But the WS Yutyrannus puts the so-called "Y-Rex" to complete and utter shame. And don't forget the Carnegie Oviraptor, Microraptor, Dilong, Beipeiosaurus, and Caudipteryx.

And then there's all the feathered dinosaurs from CollectA. The Feathered T. rex is due to ship next month.

If REBOR really does have this grand plan in store, great. I wish them the best. But as I've stated before, actions speak louder than words. We'll just have to wait and see what develops.

[tanystropheus]

I have to admit too, I'd have been curious to know more about REBOR's "detailed and reliable marketing research results which indicate that the majority care more about the overall appearance than scientific accuracy." What kind of research did they conduct? How big was their sampling pool?

Because if scientific accuracy really isn't that big a deal in our circles, then why are Battat, CollectA, Kaiyodo, and Safari so hugely popular?

REBOR's most recent FB post suggests a grander vision and plan. They want to slowly but methodically introduce the world to the the notion of feathered dinosaurs, namely, that feathered dinosaur models can maintain accuracy while concurrently being 'awesomebro'. If REBOR succeeds, they might be one of the first mainstream companies to have done so. As of now, Papo only has the Archeopteryx.

There was a recent revelation from the Korean Papo sculptor that he's working on a feathered Velociraptor. Papo is slowly coming around.

The WS Guanlong and Carnegie Velociraptor's feathers are a bit lacking.

But the WS Yutyrannus puts the so-called "Y-Rex" to complete and utter shame. And don't forget the Carnegie Oviraptor, Microraptor, Dilong, Beipeiosaurus, and Caudipteryx.

And then there's all the feathered dinosaurs from CollectA. The Feathered T. rex is due to ship next month.

If REBOR really does have this grand plan in store, great. I wish them the best. But as I've stated before, actions speak louder than words. We'll just have to wait and see what develops.
[/quote]

Commentary:

Yes, Safari Ltd. does have a good selection of feathered dinosaurs (although, some need to be updated), but with the possible exception of the Beipeiosaurus, only a few of these feathered dinosaurs have an, for a lack of a better word,  'awesomebro' presence. Personally, I like the Caudipteryx , but others might find the expression/demeanor somewhat comical.  CollectA's upcoming T-rex looks great, solid proportions and nice figure all around...the only problem is that it resembles a macaw in terms of colors.  I think we need to find a balance between aesthetics and accuracy as it relates to feathered dinosaur models. That would contribute towards wider public acceptance of feathered dinosaurs.