REBOR general discussion

[tanystropheus]

I think something I notice here....The idea of defensiveness and Rebors actions , does bring something into the fore that is perhaps the crux of the problem and why so much has gone down the bad side here. When someone mentioned the lack of feathering on one of Dan's sculpts he gave his reasonings, wether right wrong or indifferent and did his best. What he did not do , was blame Doug Watson, call his work out as horrible etc, and then start a flame internet war on Facebook directed at the forum, because he disagreed with the review his piece was given. He further did not sit and posture that the model was correct but was a transitional stage, and then that it was molting and so on...constantly manufacturing excuses, and easily discarded pretenses for that error. He did not sit and attempt to use the awesomebro movie monster cliche..he did not attempt to state , oh dear the public isnt ready for feathered dinosaurs and I have spent a fortune in research proving it. He did not sit and whine he was barely making any money in his efforts and may have to quit because ..yada yada yada.....you have to honestly look at the history of drama and silliness here . If people seem hostile perhaps yes they get that way after being fed a constant menu of lies, denial and outright idiocy. It wears thin......I have no horse in Rebor's race as seem so far to have released only theropods, but just watching the series of issues, quality control responses, and efforts to do damage control it becomes.....numbing and overwhelming. Someone needs to take the wheel at that company and repair the damage, start honeslty answering for the problems with standing and shipping the models suffer from, attempt to lower the pricing and do a far better job of public relations.

Yeah, there's a bit of a roller coaster involved in REBOR's responses. However, I was mentioning my overall reluctance for joining the 'accuracybro' crowd. I just felt that at some point, people should have just stopped bugging Dan about the Nanshiungosaurus. He had his reasons for making the model in that form and the accuracybros should have accepted it and moved on. Awesomebros might be naive, or they might be looking at the bigger picture and not really sweating the trivials...whatever it is, they are generally more tolerant (and approachable) in my opinion.

As far as REBORs pricing is concerned, I think it is fine, but I would like to see more pricing options. Smaller pieces for $20-29. Heck, even larger pieces are okay, a 1/35 scale but exceptionally well made Titanosaur for $99 would be fine.  They need to step up their quality control game, and I'm sure they are - The Acro will come with a tray placed between the legs.

[Dinoguy2]

I never said the accuracybros were bad. ^_^ Between two equally-detailed figures, I'd choose the more accurate one, but sometimes the accurate ones are really quite blandly executed or painted, like the new Carnegie T.rex. ^_^

I have no problem with accuracybro or awesomebro ideologies. The issue I have is that individuals that regard themselves as accuracy proponents tend to hold on to their inaccurate retros dearly; these models are excused because they were accurate eons ago. That's not a consistent framework, imo. There is also an element of brand loyalty (fanboyism?) where CollectA and/or Lindberg loyalists will lump entire dinosaur lines into the 'movie monster' category, out of pure convenience.

How do you figure? An outdated model that was once accurate cannot be compared to a modern model that is intentionally inaccurate or inaccurate due to laziness. The old models that adhere to the accuracy of the time not only show us what the scientific mindset of the time was but still show a level of care and craftsmanship in the product. Not to mention the nostalgia attached to a lot of these older models. New models that ignore scientific progress offer no insight into our scientific understanding, nor do they provide any nostalgia. So even though I love the tail-dragging Invicta Apatosaurus from decades ago that does not mean I have to love the Schleich Apatosaurus. The former was an honest attempt at a good model, not just a lazily produced toy. And no, I don't consider myself an "accuracybro" (please don't let that term catch on, it makes no sense). When Carnegie released their new T. rex and Papo their running version I ultimately ended up with the Papo, it's a better made model. I'm just saying that I get why collectors focused on accuracy would still collect models that were once accurate but no longer are.

Seconded. I really admire Papo and Rebor when it comes to aesthetics, but at least those old Tyco figures were original. Papo makes a better JP T. rex than anybody else, but there's no way I'd display an iconic movie creature next to a naturalistic Safari that looks like a living animal. Even though the a collecta T. rex is equally awesomebro (EXTREME pose! Big roar! Badass haircut!) and looks less natural because of it, it wouldn't look nearly as out of place because it's an original design. The Rebor and Papo rexes, being recognizably JP or JP inspired, would look about as good in a diorama as a figure of Jack Sparrow in a museum pirate diorama. I'm sure there are some very well made Jack Sparrow figures out there, but it's still a figure of a celebrity, not a realistic feeling representation of history.

Note that I'm not saying this about the whole line. The Rebor Ceratosaurus is as original as it gets and they should be proud of it. Safari has made some obvious JP celebrity likenesses (like Truceratops and older T. rex). Papo would do well to make keep making cheap knock-- re, sorry, versions of Sideshow figures that people can actually afford

[tanystropheus]

I never said the accuracybros were bad. ^_^ Between two equally-detailed figures, I'd choose the more accurate one, but sometimes the accurate ones are really quite blandly executed or painted, like the new Carnegie T.rex. ^_^

I have no problem with accuracybro or awesomebro ideologies. The issue I have is that individuals that regard themselves as accuracy proponents tend to hold on to their inaccurate retros dearly; these models are excused because they were accurate eons ago. That's not a consistent framework, imo. There is also an element of brand loyalty (fanboyism?) where CollectA and/or Lindberg loyalists will lump entire dinosaur lines into the 'movie monster' category, out of pure convenience.

How do you figure? An outdated model that was once accurate cannot be compared to a modern model that is intentionally inaccurate or inaccurate due to laziness. The old models that adhere to the accuracy of the time not only show us what the scientific mindset of the time was but still show a level of care and craftsmanship in the product. Not to mention the nostalgia attached to a lot of these older models. New models that ignore scientific progress offer no insight into our scientific understanding, nor do they provide any nostalgia. So even though I love the tail-dragging Invicta Apatosaurus from decades ago that does not mean I have to love the Schleich Apatosaurus. The former was an honest attempt at a good model, not just a lazily produced toy. And no, I don't consider myself an "accuracybro" (please don't let that term catch on, it makes no sense). When Carnegie released their new T. rex and Papo their running version I ultimately ended up with the Papo, it's a better made model. I'm just saying that I get why collectors focused on accuracy would still collect models that were once accurate but no longer are.

Seconded. I really admire Papo and Rebor when it comes to aesthetics, but at least those old Tyco figures were original. Papo makes a better JP T. rex than anybody else, but there's no way I'd display an iconic movie creature next to a naturalistic Safari that looks like a living animal. Even though the a collecta T. rex is equally awesomebro (EXTREME pose! Big roar! Badass haircut!) and looks less natural because of it, it wouldn't look nearly as out of place because it's an original design. The Rebor and Papo rexes, being recognizably JP or JP inspired, would look about as good in a diorama as a figure of Jack Sparrow in a museum pirate diorama. I'm sure there are some very well made Jack Sparrow figures out there, but it's still a figure of a celebrity, not a realistic feeling representation of history.

Note that I'm not saying this about the whole line. The Rebor Ceratosaurus is as original as it gets and they should be proud of it. Safari has made some obvious JP celebrity likenesses (like Truceratops and older T. rex). Papo would do well to make keep making cheap knock-- re, sorry, versions of Sideshow figures that people can actually afford

I'm still looking for that definitive T-rex figure. I have 6 JP style Rexes and that's overkill 
I wish Safari Ltd. would release a T-rex with the 'lifelike' quality of their Postosuchus. I would also be very content with a miniaturized 'version' of the Sideshow Tyrant King statue. CollectA's upcoming T-rex is a step in the right direction.

[Gwangi]

I never said the accuracybros were bad. ^_^ Between two equally-detailed figures, I'd choose the more accurate one, but sometimes the accurate ones are really quite blandly executed or painted, like the new Carnegie T.rex. ^_^

I have no problem with accuracybro or awesomebro ideologies. The issue I have is that individuals that regard themselves as accuracy proponents tend to hold on to their inaccurate retros dearly; these models are excused because they were accurate eons ago. That's not a consistent framework, imo. There is also an element of brand loyalty (fanboyism?) where CollectA and/or Lindberg loyalists will lump entire dinosaur lines into the 'movie monster' category, out of pure convenience.

How do you figure? An outdated model that was once accurate cannot be compared to a modern model that is intentionally inaccurate or inaccurate due to laziness. The old models that adhere to the accuracy of the time not only show us what the scientific mindset of the time was but still show a level of care and craftsmanship in the product. Not to mention the nostalgia attached to a lot of these older models. New models that ignore scientific progress offer no insight into our scientific understanding, nor do they provide any nostalgia. So even though I love the tail-dragging Invicta Apatosaurus from decades ago that does not mean I have to love the Schleich Apatosaurus. The former was an honest attempt at a good model, not just a lazily produced toy. And no, I don't consider myself an "accuracybro" (please don't let that term catch on, it makes no sense). When Carnegie released their new T. rex and Papo their running version I ultimately ended up with the Papo, it's a better made model. I'm just saying that I get why collectors focused on accuracy would still collect models that were once accurate but no longer are.

Seconded. I really admire Papo and Rebor when it comes to aesthetics, but at least those old Tyco figures were original. Papo makes a better JP T. rex than anybody else, but there's no way I'd display an iconic movie creature next to a naturalistic Safari that looks like a living animal. Even though the a collecta T. rex is equally awesomebro (EXTREME pose! Big roar! Badass haircut!) and looks less natural because of it, it wouldn't look nearly as out of place because it's an original design. The Rebor and Papo rexes, being recognizably JP or JP inspired, would look about as good in a diorama as a figure of Jack Sparrow in a museum pirate diorama. I'm sure there are some very well made Jack Sparrow figures out there, but it's still a figure of a celebrity, not a realistic feeling representation of history.

Note that I'm not saying this about the whole line. The Rebor Ceratosaurus is as original as it gets and they should be proud of it. Safari has made some obvious JP celebrity likenesses (like Truceratops and older T. rex). Papo would do well to make keep making cheap knock-- re, sorry, versions of Sideshow figures that people can actually afford

I'm still looking for that definitive T-rex figure. I have 6 JP style Rexes and that's overkill 
I wish Safari Ltd. would release a T-rex with the 'lifelike' quality of their Postosuchus. I would also be very content with a miniaturized 'version' of the Sideshow Tyrant King statue. CollectA's upcoming T-rex is a step in the right direction.

I can agree with that. For being the most popular of dinosaurs, T. rex is seldom made well.

[suspsy]

I think something I notice here....The idea of defensiveness and Rebors actions , does bring something into the fore that is perhaps the crux of the problem and why so much has gone down the bad side here. When someone mentioned the lack of feathering on one of Dan's sculpts he gave his reasonings, wether right wrong or indifferent and did his best. What he did not do , was blame Doug Watson, call his work out as horrible etc, and then start a flame internet war on Facebook directed at the forum, because he disagreed with the review his piece was given. He further did not sit and posture that the model was correct but was a transitional stage, and then that it was molting and so on...constantly manufacturing excuses, and easily discarded pretenses for that error. He did not sit and attempt to use the awesomebro movie monster cliche..he did not attempt to state , oh dear the public isnt ready for feathered dinosaurs and I have spent a fortune in research proving it. He did not sit and whine he was barely making any money in his efforts and may have to quit because ..yada yada yada.....you have to honestly look at the history of drama and silliness here . If people seem hostile perhaps yes they get that way after being fed a constant menu of lies, denial and outright idiocy. It wears thin......I have no horse in Rebor's race as seem so far to have released only theropods, but just watching the series of issues, quality control responses, and efforts to do damage control it becomes.....numbing and overwhelming. Someone needs to take the wheel at that company and repair the damage, start honeslty answering for the problems with standing and shipping the models suffer from, attempt to lower the pricing and do a far better job of public relations.

I'm with you, 100%.

Gotta say too, I seriously HATE the term 'awesomebro' and now this new 'accuracybro' nonsense that's getting tossed around. They sound idiotic, they're unfair and inaccurate, and they only serve to stir up animosity among fans who shouldn't be in conflict to begin with. I love feathered dinosaurs. Love 'em to bits. That's one of the main reasons why CollectA is my favourite toy company. I even have photos of the Feathered T. rex on my phone (I'm sure I'm not the only one who does). But I also really enjoy Papo models. And I love classic dinosaur art like the works of Charles A. Knight. So I really don't appreciate being painted with either brush. Not by REBOR, not by anyone.

[tanystropheus]

Between Megathingy, Deinothingy and Accuracybro, our forum definitely has a knack for exotic lingo...

[Simon]

Gotta say too, I seriously HATE the term 'awesomebro' and now this new 'accuracybro' nonsense that's getting tossed around. They sound idiotic, they're unfair and inaccurate, and they only serve to stir up animosity among fans who shouldn't be in conflict to begin with. I love feathered dinosaurs. Love 'em to bits. That's one of the main reasons why CollectA is my favourite toy company. I even have photos of the Feathered T. rex on my phone (I'm sure I'm not the only one who does). But I also really enjoy Papo models. And I love classic dinosaur art like the works of Charles A. Knight. So I really don't appreciate being painted with either brush. Not by REBOR, not by anyone.

Suspsy, may I chime in?

I am the fellow who "coined" the new term "accuracybro".  I did it because I absolutely, positively, (like you) HATE the term "awesomebro".

Since I could do nothing about other people's use of the latter, I decided to coin the former (yesterday).

[stargatedalek]

I'm indifferent on the term "awesomebro", some people don't like it, but a lot of other people like it and don't take it to mean anything negative. However, the term "accuracybro" sounds incredibly dumb, the entire point of adding the "bro" slang is to emphasize that its meant to appear "cool" or scary or metal. If anything "accuracybro" should refer to things like when a dinosaur is accurate but still made to appear incredibly menacing. Using "accuracybro" to describe people who believe dinosaurs should look like real animals, animals that rest and sleep and play, and not continually roar everywhere seems incredibly erroneous.

@Simon, no offense personally, but creating/using a term in that way isn't going to help anything. Its just being spiteful, and as I said there are people who like to use the term "awesomebro" in a positive way.

[Simon]

*chuckle*  OK.  I won't use it again.  "awesome...." just aggravated me so much that I wanted some way to react to it.

The first term sounds incredibly dumb to me.  I do not really think that there is anyone who prefers inaccurate dinosaurs.

Its just that some people believe that inaccurate versions of dinosaurs are accurate because they do not know any better.

So, let's educate them, instead of stigmatizing them or insulting them by using a silly term that is not "awesome" in any way shape or form, shall we?

I think we can probably all agree on that.

[suspsy]

Gotta say too, I seriously HATE the term 'awesomebro' and now this new 'accuracybro' nonsense that's getting tossed around. They sound idiotic, they're unfair and inaccurate, and they only serve to stir up animosity among fans who shouldn't be in conflict to begin with. I love feathered dinosaurs. Love 'em to bits. That's one of the main reasons why CollectA is my favourite toy company. I even have photos of the Feathered T. rex on my phone (I'm sure I'm not the only one who does). But I also really enjoy Papo models. And I love classic dinosaur art like the works of Charles A. Knight. So I really don't appreciate being painted with either brush. Not by REBOR, not by anyone.

Suspsy, may I chime in?

I am the fellow who "coined" the new term "accuracybro".  I did it because I absolutely, positively, (like you) HATE the term "awesomebro".

Since I could do nothing about other people's use of the latter, I decided to coin the former (yesterday).

My intention is to use this new term as the antidote every single time I post about something that someone has called "awesomebro".

Ah, I see.

While we're on the subject, how exactly does one define 'awesomebro' anyway? Is it necessary for a model to be grossly inaccurate like the REBOR Yutyrannus, or can it be applied to any model that looks exaggerated and overly ferocious?

[tanystropheus]

This is an example of awesomebro but still accurate enough (I think ):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bg2YX0i3WMU

[Simon]

 

[tyrantqueen]

Yeah, there's a bit of a roller coaster involved in REBOR's responses. However, I was mentioning my overall reluctance for joining the 'accuracybro' crowd. I just felt that at some point, people should have just stopped bugging Dan about the Nanshiungosaurus. He had his reasons for making the model in that form and the accuracybros should have accepted it and moved on. Awesomebros might be naive, or they might be looking at the bigger picture and not really sweating the trivials...whatever it is, they are generally more tolerant (and approachable) in my opinion.

How many times have awesomebro fans made fun of feathered dinosaurs, calling them "gay" or "lame"? If they had made the velociraptors in JW feathered, can you imagine the complaining from the fanboys?

In my opinion both extremes should be avoided.

[tanystropheus]

Yeah, there's a bit of a roller coaster involved in REBOR's responses. However, I was mentioning my overall reluctance for joining the 'accuracybro' crowd. I just felt that at some point, people should have just stopped bugging Dan about the Nanshiungosaurus. He had his reasons for making the model in that form and the accuracybros should have accepted it and moved on. Awesomebros might be naive, or they might be looking at the bigger picture and not really sweating the trivials...whatever it is, they are generally more tolerant (and approachable) in my opinion.

How many times have awesomebro fans made fun of feathered dinosaurs, calling them "gay" or "lame"? If they had made the velociraptors in JW feathered, can you imagine the complaining from the fanboys?

In my opinion both extremes should be avoided.

That's another reason why I wanted JW to feature feathered dinosaurs. JP/JW has the stamp of approval from the awesomebros. They could have changed the perception of another generation of fans positively.

By the way, why does Sideshow's Dinosauria line avoid feathered dinosaurs?

[tanystropheus]

I used to think that those pics were photoshopped. I've been lied to   

[Blade-of-the-Moon]

Yeah, there's a bit of a roller coaster involved in REBOR's responses. However, I was mentioning my overall reluctance for joining the 'accuracybro' crowd. I just felt that at some point, people should have just stopped bugging Dan about the Nanshiungosaurus. He had his reasons for making the model in that form and the accuracybros should have accepted it and moved on. Awesomebros might be naive, or they might be looking at the bigger picture and not really sweating the trivials...whatever it is, they are generally more tolerant (and approachable) in my opinion.

How many times have awesomebro fans made fun of feathered dinosaurs, calling them "gay" or "lame"? If they had made the velociraptors in JW feathered, can you imagine the complaining from the fanboys?

In my opinion both extremes should be avoided.

That's another reason why I wanted JW to feature feathered dinosaurs. JP/JW has the stamp of approval from the awesomebros. They could have changed the perception of another generation of fans positively.

By the way, why does Sideshow's Dinosauria line avoid feathered dinosaurs?

They don't totally avoid them, the Velociraptor VS Protoceratops piece had a feathered Velociraptor..however from what I understand that is one of their least popular pieces. :/

[tanystropheus]

Yeah, there's a bit of a roller coaster involved in REBOR's responses. However, I was mentioning my overall reluctance for joining the 'accuracybro' crowd. I just felt that at some point, people should have just stopped bugging Dan about the Nanshiungosaurus. He had his reasons for making the model in that form and the accuracybros should have accepted it and moved on. Awesomebros might be naive, or they might be looking at the bigger picture and not really sweating the trivials...whatever it is, they are generally more tolerant (and approachable) in my opinion.

How many times have awesomebro fans made fun of feathered dinosaurs, calling them "gay" or "lame"? If they had made the velociraptors in JW feathered, can you imagine the complaining from the fanboys?

In my opinion both extremes should be avoided.

That's another reason why I wanted JW to feature feathered dinosaurs. JP/JW has the stamp of approval from the awesomebros. They could have changed the perception of another generation of fans positively.

By the way, why does Sideshow's Dinosauria line avoid feathered dinosaurs?

They don't totally avoid them, the Velociraptor VS Protoceratops piece had a feathered Velociraptor..however from what I understand that is one of their least popular pieces. :/

Hey, you're right...I didn't notice it before...Is the Protoceratops eating the Velociraptor? It looks that way in the pic:

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7234/7187559154_838ddfb9b9_b.jpg

I'm surprised that it isn't one of their popular pieces, especially since the Velociraptor v.s Protoceratops is a part of such a dynamic, vivid scene.

[DinoLord]

Well the fossil specimen showed the Protoceratops biting the Velociraptor in retaliation. Personally I held off on that one due to not really liking the color scheme. With pricier statues like that or even pricier models like Rebor's, little things like that make me a lot more hesitant to hold off from purchase than they would for a lower price-point figure. Personally that is how I feel about the current Rebor products - they're beautifully done artistically, but little issues like the leg warping or the color schemes not being to my personal taste have made me hold off from acquiring any of the current offerings.

[Tyrannosauron]

Regarding the Rebor T. rex: whether or not the head is accurate--in either the scientific or the cinematic sense--is an empirical question. In this case the facts say no.











This isn't a matter of picture angle; it's a matter of error, however major or minor that error may be (for my part, I'd say it's relatively minor). In any event, I'd say their model looks great anyway, and if you're going to make a mistake (as everyone does eventually) then it's better from a business perspective to make it on the product that's going to sell oodles and oodles anyway.

And the point that I think it's important to reinforce is that this debate misses the point that was originally in question, which was whether or not their representative was treated fairly. And that might not be an empirical question, but there are facts that can be brought to bear: first, that the criticism (s)he initially received was as harsh as the criticism that's been doled out even to beloved artists who post here; second, that the representative's responses to those criticisms were consistent in their rudeness and mendacity; third, that no one expressed a desire to see the representative leave before (s)he did so. Anyone here who wants to carry water for the company is of course free to do so, but let's not perpetuate a demonstrably unjustified persecution complex.

[REBOR_STUDIO]

But this is a matter of picture angle:



In order to prevent people from hurting our sculpture artist again we cannot ignore this image which is somehow missleading. More photos which were taken by a third party reviewer can be found via the link below, please see for yourself.

https://picasaweb.google.com/VikingSpawn/TYRANNOSAURUSREXKINGTREX#

The following comment was found on our facebook fan page:

"More lies. If the REST of the TRex wasn't accurate I might buy it. But the rest of the TRex is 100% accurate and the only thing off is the width of the head. Hence, the only conclusion is the one I drew earlier. The sculptor screwed up, you missed it, and now you are STILL refusing to admit that you "dropped the ball". Pathetic. And a damned shame because your products are getting better."

Facebook admin replied:

"We are glad to know that you have noticed the accurate part of King T-rex such as the length of the arms, however we wouldn't say the rest body is 100% accurate, we've modified the body proportions intentionally during the design stage. But why should we admit something that is not the truth? The head sculpt was an artistic decision because we want the head look as strong as the body, please don't blame the sculptor, if he can create such a detailed piece, he certainly won't "screw up" the easy part, therefore your conclusion is unreasonable and illogical."

Dear Simon, unfortunately according to the nda (non-disclosure agreement) we cannot reveal the identity of the sculpture artist, however we can tell you that he certainly owns high prestige and his works are featured in several museums in London, he does not "screw up", please understand