Feathered Dinosaurs

[Patrx]

... I imagined I was watching a real live dinosaur, which I was. So things like that are helping me accept feathered and accurate dinosaurs little by little. At 30 years of age, however, it can be a bit of a challange to let go of cherished concepts you've held to be true throughout your entire life. Hopefully I'll get there soon enough 

Glad to hear you're making the effort! 

[Z-Ray]

I know it's very unlikely (read; not at all) but I kinda hope we end up finding out that all Dinosaur groups were feathered.

When a new Dinosaurs or Material is found (eg; Yi qi, Deinocheirus,) we get to see some of the amazing diversity and unique biological solutions that nature can come up with.
Same whey you discover a less mainstream Dinosaur that you had never heard of before (eg; for me, Tanystropheus)

However, with some of the old faithfuls, the ones so ingrained in the pop culture that nobody can fail to know them from an early age (T. rex, Triceratops, Stegosaurus, ect,) we have become so used to
that we think of them as the default, Now imagine we find a Stegosaurus with feather impressions, suddenly it's like looking at it for the first time and we can consider how amazing the plates sticking out it's back are, the thagomizer, it's tiny head and throat armour ... and it's feathers

I'd like to see if the news that they had feathers could help poor old 'Brontosaurus' shake the swamp dwelling, tail dragging image that still persists.

That's why, while I don't believe it's the case, I would love it if ALL Dinosaurs were feathered.


(I thought of this after my nephew told me how weird it would be if Mammoths just walked around now days.
I thought to my self, they kinda do we just call them Elephants, and I realised, to him Elephants were regular animals, but with Mammoths being extinct he could appreciate the oddness of it's features.)

[Halichoeres]

Nothing wrong with liking what you like. I still love the old tail draggers.

I agree, I still love them too. For their nostalgic and historical value though. You don't have to let go of one to embrace the other.

Lol, I've never been a fan of tail draggers, most likely because theropods became horizontal when I was a kid so that's what I grew up with. I hear what you're saying about liking what you like - it's something you can't really control, however at the same time I think it's better to let reality influence your emotions and not the other way around like creationists do. T-Rex was always my favorite dinosaur growing up... Until the discovery of its dreaded feathered ancestors - now it's Carnotaurus because we know it had pebbly skin  I even tried searching for any evidence I could get my hands on that justified my continuing to believe in a bald Rex, however the evidence is just too overwhelming at this point. That's why I'm actively trying to build up an interest in birds, so I can continue to love dinosaurs for what they were - not what I want them to be.

If nothing else, you'll develop an appreciation for birds! I find them fascinating because their communication is all visual and auditory, unlike mammals, which do so much with scent. I think the birds' way is much more dignified.

[Tyto_Theropod]

Yes, of course! Just imagine a world where today's dinosaurs (crows, chickens, owls...) all went running around without 'em! 

On a more serious note, my personal opinion is that while it's fine to like the JP-esque Velociraptors and their kin for the nostalgia value, it's just unrealistic not to embrace well-authenticated scientific discoveries. After all, that's why dinosaurs fascinate us. They seem to become increasingly weird and wonderful the more we find out.

Having said which, I'm not so keen on the artists who basically assume that just because some dinosaurs had feathers, all of them did - and end up drawing ridiculously fluffy Stegosaurs...    That's just my opinion, though. For all we know, Stegosaurus might have had huge pink hackle plumes. I just think it's unlikely.

[MLMjp]

I voted yes
Although I have to say some things
When I first saw feathered dinosaurs did not like much but gradually I started to like them
I have to admit that when I saw the idea that  T.rex also had feathers I did not like it, and the vast majority of images that I saw did not help
However I found some reconstructions that I liked (like the one seen in the link suspsy posted) that help me to accept the idea of a feathered T.rex.
Evidence of feathers has been found in theropods, ornithopods, proceratopsids and heterodontosaurids.
However I tend to reject feathers on dinosaurs that are not in those groups,
In theropods there is only evidence of feathers on coelurosauridos, and it is reasonable to think that small primitive theropod had protofeathers or perhaps quills
But there is no evidence in other groups as megalosaurids, allosaurids or abelisaurids (because sciurumimus was reclassified as coelurosaurid and evidence of quills in concavenator are probably not that) so I tend to dislike the reconstructions of theropods from those other groups with feathers. But if some evidence of feathers in these groups is found then I will change my mind.
With ceratopsians I have no problem, they are only simple quills, although it has been said that because of the distance between psittacosaurids and more advanced ceratopsians could mean that the later ones did not have those quills. In the case of heterodontosaurids i have no complains, same with ornithopods, only smaller ones had been found with proof of feathers(kulindadromeus)
So I have to say that until some evidence is found, any dinosaur outside the groups(non coelurosaurs, sauropods, pachycephalosaurs, ceratopsians, thyreophorans, and large ornithopods) will be depicted in my mind scaly.
Like I said I like the idea of feathered dinosaurs, im not anti-science or nostalgic, I prefer scientifically accurate dinosaurs but I also prefer to only put feathers in dinosaurs that the evidence shows that they had or likely had, if some proof is found in the other dinosaur groups then I will change my mind. I also like jurassic park dinosaurs, but as long as they stay in the jurassic park universe.
If I made some mistakes in my "research" of feathers in dinosaurs please correct me.
But for now that what i think of feathered dinosaurs

[Monkeysaurus]

while it's fine to like the JP-esque Velociraptors and their kin for the nostalgia value, it's just unrealistic not to embrace well-authenticated scientific discoveries.

I completely agree. It's not that my brain has a problem accepting the overwhelming scientific evidence of feathered dinosaurs as a logical conclusion, it's just that my heart has a tough time catching up and accepting it too. I did purchase my first feathered dinosaur last week though, and have since grown fond of the little guy, so I'm getting there. I might even pick up the collectA feathered T-Rex and see how I do with that. Lol, I feel like a kid in high school who refuses to give up his training wheels 

If nothing else, you'll develop an appreciation for birds! I find them fascinating because their communication is all visual and auditory, unlike mammals, which do so much with scent. I think the birds' way is much more dignified.

I'm a landscaper on a golf course and there's this one male turkey who will literally strut and gobble in front of the females from sunrise to sunset, day after day. I'm starting to feel bad for the poor little guy because not only does he never get lucky, but the females couldn't be any less interested in him if they tried:'( I'll see them in one section of the course, then come back and the females will have inched slightly further away from him each time I see them, until they do a complete 360 around the property, lol. I admire his spirit, and the visual and auditory communication of birds is indeed fascinating.

[Tyto_Theropod]

I'm a landscaper on a golf course and there's this one male turkey who will literally strut and gobble in front of the females from sunrise to sunset, day after day. I'm starting to feel bad for the poor little guy because not only does he never get lucky, but the females couldn't be any less interested in him if they tried:'( I'll see them in one section of the course, then come back and the females will have inched slightly further away from him each time I see them, until they do a complete 360 around the property, lol. I admire his spirit, and the visual and auditory communication of birds is indeed fascinating.

Lol poor little chap! I hope he gets lucky one day! And yes, the way that birds communicate is fascinating - but then to me the way that any animal communicates is. It's just something that has always really interested me.

Like I said I like the idea of feathered dinosaurs, im not anti-science or nostalgic, I prefer scientifically accurate dinosaurs but I also prefer to only put feathers in dinosaurs that the evidence shows that they had or likely had, if some proof is found in the other dinosaur groups then I will change my mind.

I couldn't agree more, although of course there's nothing wrong with speculation. In fact, skin impressions from some dinosaurs, including Triceratops and many Hadrosaurs, show that these animals were scaly on at least very large parts of their bodies. Having said which, we can only draw educated guesses when it comes to genera where we don't have any evidence for their integument.

[MLMjp]

Like I said I like the idea of feathered dinosaurs, im not anti-science or nostalgic, I prefer scientifically accurate dinosaurs but I also prefer to only put feathers in dinosaurs that the evidence shows that they had or likely had, if some proof is found in the other dinosaur groups then I will change my mind.

I couldn't agree more, although of course there's nothing wrong with speculation. In fact, skin impressions from some dinosaurs, including Triceratops and many Hadrosaurs, show that these animals were scaly on at least very large parts of their bodies. Having said which, we can only draw educated guesses when it comes to genera where we don't have any evidence for their integument.
[/quote]

Of course
Speculation is very important when we try to know how this animals look like although sometimes I find some reconstructions weird. But thats the good thing about it right? There are so many possibilities when it comes to restore this animals

[Halichoeres]

If nothing else, you'll develop an appreciation for birds! I find them fascinating because their communication is all visual and auditory, unlike mammals, which do so much with scent. I think the birds' way is much more dignified.

I'm a landscaper on a golf course and there's this one male turkey who will literally strut and gobble in front of the females from sunrise to sunset, day after day. I'm starting to feel bad for the poor little guy because not only does he never get lucky, but the females couldn't be any less interested in him if they tried:'( I'll see them in one section of the course, then come back and the females will have inched slightly further away from him each time I see them, until they do a complete 360 around the property, lol. I admire his spirit, and the visual and auditory communication of birds is indeed fascinating.

Ha ha ha, well that doesn't sound very dignified at all!

[Dobber]

Like I said I like the idea of feathered dinosaurs, im not anti-science or nostalgic, I prefer scientifically accurate dinosaurs but I also prefer to only put feathers in dinosaurs that the evidence shows that they had or likely had, if some proof is found in the other dinosaur groups then I will change my mind.

I couldn't agree more, although of course there's nothing wrong with speculation. In fact, skin impressions from some dinosaurs, including Triceratops and many Hadrosaurs, show that these animals were scaly on at least very large parts of their bodies. Having said which, we can only draw educated guesses when it comes to genera where we don't have any evidence for their integument.

That is all I 've been trying to say in this thread too    I couldn't agree more. 

Chris

[goodlife18]

Not 'all' dinosaurs were feathered. Moreover being related to birds doesn't necessarily mean dinosaurs were feathered. Reptiles and birds are related to each other and share a common ancestor and yet you don't see feathered crocodiles, tortoises etc. Same thing with dinosaurs.  At best feathers would have been found on only some types of dinosaurs.

[stargatedalek]

Crocodilians actually share the same genes to grow soft integument that birds have, so on a genetic level it's possible for any dinosaur to have "feathers".

[goodlife18]

Yes but the fact is even if crocodiles did share genes to grow feathers, they don't have feathers. I don't deny that some dinosaurs would have had feathers. But the point is that one should be cautious and avoid taking the 'feathered dinosaurs' theory too far and start putting feathers on every other dinosaur.

[Dinoguy2]

Not 'all' dinosaurs were feathered. Moreover being related to birds doesn't necessarily mean dinosaurs were feathered. Reptiles and birds are related to each other and share a common ancestor and yet you don't see feathered crocodiles, tortoises etc. Same thing with dinosaurs.  At best feathers would have been found on only some types of dinosaurs.

I agree. We should only restore feathers on dinosaur groups that we know from direct evidence had them. So that limits feathers only to saurischians and ornithischians.

[HD-man]

Evidence of feathers has been found in theropods, ornithopods, proceratopsids and heterodontosaurids.

If I made some mistakes in my "research" of feathers in dinosaurs please correct me.

Just a couple things:
-You're thinking of Psittacosaurus, not protoceratopsids.
-AFAWK, only non-tyrannosaurid coelurosaurs were definitely feathered (See the 1st post: http://dinotoyblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=3476.0 ).

[MLMjp]

Evidence of feathers has been found in theropods, ornithopods, proceratopsids and heterodontosaurids.

If I made some mistakes in my "research" of feathers in dinosaurs please correct me.

Just a couple things:
-You're thinking of Psittacosaurus, not protoceratopsids.
-AFAWK, only non-tyrannosaurid coelurosaurs were definitely feathered (See the 1st post: http://dinotoyblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=3476.0 ).

Oh Thanks!
The psittacosaurus mistake was because Im used to relate Psittacosaurs with protoceratopsid, so my bad
And seccond
I know there still the possibility that tyrannosaurus were not feathered because we didn't find direct evidence of them, only in more primitive tyrannosauroids such as yutyrannus, I didn't explain everything because it was a long post, But before I read the post you show me I though that it was logical to think that all tyrannosaurus were feathered, although is still possible that not all were feathered

EDIT:I didn´t say that  now its ilogical to think that all tyrannosaurus were feathered, ok?

[Patrx]

Personally, scaly skin impressions don't do much to convince me of the absence of filamentous integument, since filaments can grow around and among scutes and reticulae, and don't necessarily leave traces under the same conditions. Unfortunately, this means that it's next to impossible to prove to me that filaments were absent for a given taxon, and only possible to prove when they were present. But, therein are the challenges inherent in proving a negative.

[MLMjp]

It is a situation where we have different opinions because none of us really knows the true, so it comes to speculation.
Everyone has his own idea based on the evidence
IMO It is very likely that all tyranosaurids had feathers, even to the point to say that is almost sure (altough there are still chances of something proving the opposite)

[Gwangi]

Not 'all' dinosaurs were feathered. Moreover being related to birds doesn't necessarily mean dinosaurs were feathered. Reptiles and birds are related to each other and share a common ancestor and yet you don't see feathered crocodiles, tortoises etc. Same thing with dinosaurs.  At best feathers would have been found on only some types of dinosaurs.

I agree. We should only restore feathers on dinosaur groups that we know from direct evidence had them. So that limits feathers only to saurischians and ornithischians.

[John]

I grew up with the old fashioned scaly dinosaurs,as in scaly Struthiomimus.But it now being so extremely likely to have been completely feathered that I would put money on it does not make it any less interesting to me that it was when it was thought to be scaly.