Customising Hints, Tips and FAQs

[tyrantqueen]

Hi,
I've been painting for a while now and I'm confused about something.
I normally use artist or student brand acrylics (for example Liquitex and Winsor Newton), which are aimed at people who prefer to paint on canvas. I've noticed some people prefer to use modeller's acrylics, such as those made by Vallejo or Tamiya.  Does this make a difference? Are there any advantages for using modellers acrylics rather than artist's?
Thanks

[GrownNerd]

The artist brand acrylics are a thicker consistency and can add texture to your work if you put on thick layers. It's meant to simulate the properties of traditional oil colors that can be put on the canvas with a paint knife it desired, or worked with a brush smoother and flatter. For art on canvas, this property allows creative control of the brush stroke, as many artists prefer to have the brushstroke and the texture of the paint be part of the style of the piece. In art on canvas, it's not just the image and color that can tell the story, but also how the paint is put down that gives a secondary story behind the piece.

The modelers' acrylics are more liquid and self-leveling (at least the good brands are). Modelers usually don't want their brush strokes seen, so the paints are made thinner consistency to accommodate that. But remember that thinner consistency doesn't mean that it won't be as opaque. Opacity is a different property that depends on the pigment used and can be somewhat controlled in manufacturing with how much pigment is used. The more liquid property of the modelers' brands also allows for easier mixing down to be used with an airbrush. To mix down the gloppy artist brands to use in an airbrush, you'd have to dilute the paint so much that it would take many more coats to cover opaquely.

In short, I think for us, the modeler's brands work better because they'll go on smoother. You won't have to fight with the paint as much for a smooth look.

[tyrantqueen]

The artist brand acrylics are a thicker consistency and can add texture to your work if you put on thick layers. It's meant to simulate the properties of traditional oil colors that can be put on the canvas with a paint knife it desired, or worked with a brush smoother and flatter. For art on canvas, this property allows creative control of the brush stroke, as many artists prefer to have the brushstroke and the texture of the paint be part of the style of the piece. In art on canvas, it's not just the image and color that can tell the story, but also how the paint is put down that gives a secondary story behind the piece.

The modelers' acrylics are more liquid and self-leveling (at least the good brands are). Modelers usually don't want their brush strokes seen, so the paints are made thinner consistency to accommodate that. But remember that thinner consistency doesn't mean that it won't be as opaque. Opacity is a different property that depends on the pigment used and can be somewhat controlled in manufacturing with how much pigment is used. The more liquid property of the modelers' brands also allows for easier mixing down to be used with an airbrush. To mix down the gloppy artist brands to use in an airbrush, you'd have to dilute the paint so much that it would take many more coats to cover opaquely.

In short, I think for us, the modeler's brands work better because they'll go on smoother. You won't have to fight with the paint as much for a smooth look.

I couldn't have asked for a better response. Thanks Nerd

[Patrx]

The artist brand acrylics are a thicker consistency and can add texture to your work if you put on thick layers. It's meant to simulate the properties of traditional oil colors that can be put on the canvas with a paint knife it desired, or worked with a brush smoother and flatter. For art on canvas, this property allows creative control of the brush stroke, as many artists prefer to have the brushstroke and the texture of the paint be part of the style of the piece. In art on canvas, it's not just the image and color that can tell the story, but also how the paint is put down that gives a secondary story behind the piece.

The modelers' acrylics are more liquid and self-leveling (at least the good brands are). Modelers usually don't want their brush strokes seen, so the paints are made thinner consistency to accommodate that. But remember that thinner consistency doesn't mean that it won't be as opaque. Opacity is a different property that depends on the pigment used and can be somewhat controlled in manufacturing with how much pigment is used. The more liquid property of the modelers' brands also allows for easier mixing down to be used with an airbrush. To mix down the gloppy artist brands to use in an airbrush, you'd have to dilute the paint so much that it would take many more coats to cover opaquely.

In short, I think for us, the modeler's brands work better because they'll go on smoother. You won't have to fight with the paint as much for a smooth look.

Man, I wish I'd known all this sooner. I just painted up one of Aaron Doyle's Shapeways Velociraptors with cheap acrylics, and it does indeed look a bit, er, blobby. 

[Himmapaan]

Man, I wish I'd known all this sooner. I just painted up one of Aaron Doyle's Shapeways Velociraptors with cheap acrylics, and it does indeed look a bit, er, blobby. 

Try thinning your paint down and paint in more layers instead. If that produces no difference, try to invest in something a little pricier but more dependable.

I actually use both modeller's paints and those for fine art. But because I prefer to work very thinly and in many layers, both are great for me.

[tyrantqueen]

I have been using Liquitex Basics which are the student version of the Liquitex brand, but now I think I am gonna switch to Vallejo model colours They have a great range too

[pylraster]

Question about topcoats...

What sort of paint would be best to seal the paint in to prevent smudging? I have a Pylox Clear, it says it's lacquer based. Would it be safe for lets say, Schleich plastic?

[tyrantqueen]

Question about topcoats...

What sort of paint would be best to seal the paint in to prevent smudging? I have a Pylox Clear, it says it's lacquer based. Would it be safe for lets say, Schleich plastic?

Most of where I learned my techniques from is miniature painting websites, which is very similar to painting plastic dinos. They suggest that you put on a coat of varnish to protect the paintjob from the environment and from UV rays.

Use a matte varnish, unless you want it to be really glossy.

I wouldn't use anything laquer based, apparently it can melt the plastic and never dries :O

[pylraster]

How about clear Acrylic paint? Is it safe?

[GrownNerd]

I'm assuming "clear acrylic paint" is a clear acrylic brush on sealant. If so, it's usually safe but will dry very glossy.

An often recommended way from modellers for protecting and sealing your custom painted figures is to use Future Floor shine, which is an acrylic floor varnish for tiles and vinyl flooring. It's extremely cheap compared to the gloss sealers sold in hobby stores. It creates a tough coat, but like the acrylic clear sealants would dry glossy. After drying, spray with Testors Dullcote. Testors Dullcote has a good history of not interacting with the plastic underneath, while some brands, like Krylon, have reports of them turning the plastic model sticky even through the custom paint coats (I've had this problem with Krylon Matte and Krylon Fixative as well).

I've started to use Future as my paint thinner when painting so that each layer of paint dries fairly tough on its own, because the customs I do get a lot of handling in the end. And because Future is an acrylic medium and is self leveling, it suspends the acrylic paint more uniformly than water and levels out to a smoother paint coat. This is especially true when you use it as a wash. After all the painting is done and a day or so of drying, I'll go over the whole thing with two coats of a mixture of 1 part Tamiya Flat Base to 4 parts Future, which gives an overall satin sheen and offers more protection. Then after another day or so of drying I'll spray with Testors Dullcote to give a matte sheen. This might be overkill for some people who won't be handling their customs much after they're done.

If you're wondering about the use of Future floor shine, google the words Future Floor Finish Model and several links will show with discussion, experiences, and directions from people who've used the technique. Future is also now called Pledge Floor Care with Future (make sure to get the one for vinyl floors, not wood). Also the site http://www.swannysmodels.com/TheCompleteFuture.html gives info for what to get if Future isn't in your country; sometimes it's called something else, or a different company has a similar product.

[tyrantqueen]

I need help with getting a model to stay upright. I have a resin which is really poorly balanced. I don't own a drill so I can't drill holes in the feet :X

Maybe I could use a stand to prop it up? Trouble is, I don't know where to get ahold of those. Is it possible to make your own?

[GrownNerd]

Can you use Blue Tack on its feet to keep it stuck to the shelf/table surface? Blue Tack is a removable and reusable sticky putty, usually used to put up posters on walls. I've used it on my action figures to keep them upright in off balanced poses. Toy companies use it at San Diego Comic Con to keep their prototypes standing in the display cases.

There are imitation generic brands, and even a white tack putty from 3M. But I've found that the original Blue Tack has the strongest adhesion.

[tyrantqueen]

I do know of Blu Tack, yeah  I suppose it is worth a try, thanks.

I have another question- is it okay to use Acrylic Polyurethane primer on resins and plastics? In particular I plan to prime my Suchomimus resin before I paint it. I hear a lot about certain paints and primers damaging the material underneath, which I would prefer to avoid

I have some grey Vallejo Acrylic Polyurethane Primer which I am planning to use in conjuction with Vallejo paints themselves

[pylraster]

I'm assuming "clear acrylic paint" is a clear acrylic brush on sealant. If so, it's usually safe but will dry very glossy.

An often recommended way from modellers for protecting and sealing your custom painted figures is to use Future Floor shine, which is an acrylic floor varnish for tiles and vinyl flooring. It's extremely cheap compared to the gloss sealers sold in hobby stores. It creates a tough coat, but like the acrylic clear sealants would dry glossy. After drying, spray with Testors Dullcote. Testors Dullcote has a good history of not interacting with the plastic underneath, while some brands, like Krylon, have reports of them turning the plastic model sticky even through the custom paint coats (I've had this problem with Krylon Matte and Krylon Fixative as well).

I've started to use Future as my paint thinner when painting so that each layer of paint dries fairly tough on its own, because the customs I do get a lot of handling in the end. And because Future is an acrylic medium and is self leveling, it suspends the acrylic paint more uniformly than water and levels out to a smoother paint coat. This is especially true when you use it as a wash. After all the painting is done and a day or so of drying, I'll go over the whole thing with two coats of a mixture of 1 part Tamiya Flat Base to 4 parts Future, which gives an overall satin sheen and offers more protection. Then after another day or so of drying I'll spray with Testors Dullcote to give a matte sheen. This might be overkill for some people who won't be handling their customs much after they're done.

If you're wondering about the use of Future floor shine, google the words Future Floor Finish Model and several links will show with discussion, experiences, and directions from people who've used the technique. Future is also now called Pledge Floor Care with Future (make sure to get the one for vinyl floors, not wood). Also the site http://www.swannysmodels.com/TheCompleteFuture.html gives info for what to get if Future isn't in your country; sometimes it's called something else, or a different company has a similar product.

.

Thanks for enlightening me! I will try to apply these tips in my next projects. Oh well, seems like I will have to repaint my Schleich Rex soon. It would have made a somewhat-okay figure but the very fragile paint just ruins it. Once the paint wear is very severe I'll just rub the remaining ones off with a toothbrush and denatured alchohol. I wouldn't want to cover the old fragile paint... I think the new paint won't stick well if I didn't take the old layer out.

Has anyone tried Gunze-Sangyo/Mr Hobby/Tamiya surfacers? They're primers normally used in Gundam models.  I just don't know if they'll work well for dino figures.

[GrownNerd]

As far as I know, primers don't cause problems with the plastic. In cases where it might have, the acrylic coats of paint on top seal the stickiness underneath. I don't know why, but when spray sealants cause stickiness problems, it causes it because it's the top and final layer. Somehow it causes the chemical reaction through the dried paint and the stickiness leach up through the paint layers. But if a coat of matte acrylic paint is put on top of a figure that's turned sticky, it seals it beneath. I've fixed figures gone sticky by repainting right on top instead of stripping everything down to the bare plastic and repainting. I just make sure not to use whatever sealant caused the stickiness again.

And using primers is usually a good idea. It does two things:

1. It creates a monotone base color so that all your colors have a uniform brightness of base from which to start. For an extreme example, say you took a zebra figure and did some modifications so it looks like a prehistoric horse, and now you need to paint. If you didn't primer the figure and paint it mostly in tan, your tan has to go over abrupt transitions of black and white stripes, which will show through the first few layers of paint. You'll need a lot of coats before you get a uniform tan that doesn't show stripes underneath. If you primer it a uniform color, usually gray, then you'll get better coverage with fewer coats.

2. It makes for better paint adhesion. Primer is formulated a bit differently than paint. Whereas paint has to balance between opacity, flow, brightness, pigmentation, etc, primer doesn't have to deal with properties that make for a good top coat. One of the things a dedicated primer then focuses on is adhesion. Usually primers adhere better to the surface than paints, and paints adhere better to primers than to the raw surface. So it acts as an adhesion intermediary between paint and surface. This makes primers terrible top coats because dust and stains will more easily stick to it. You'll also find that many spray primers will dry with a slight toothy surface. Toothy surfaces take paint better than slick ones.

So if you're going to primer something, it's better to use an actual primer than it is to use a paint as a primer. The drawback to primers is they don't come in as many colors as paints. People often prefer to use as few coats as they can to cover, so choose to "primer" using a colored paint. This would certainly take care of number 1, but defeats the purpose of number 2.

Oh, and always, always, clean your figures with warm soapy water and rinse completely then dry before going to your primer or painting stage. You don't need to rewash it after you've primed unless you've handled it a lot. The purpose of washing with soapy water as an early step is to wash away the slippery mold release that may still be there from factory processes.

[tyrantqueen]

As far as I know, primers don't cause problems with the plastic. In cases where it might have, the acrylic coats of paint on top seal the stickiness underneath. I don't know why, but when spray sealants cause stickiness problems, it causes it because it's the top and final layer. Somehow it causes the chemical reaction through the dried paint and the stickiness leach up through the paint layers. But if a coat of matte acrylic paint is put on top of a figure that's turned sticky, it seals it beneath. I've fixed figures gone sticky by repainting right on top instead of stripping everything down to the bare plastic and repainting. I just make sure not to use whatever sealant caused the stickiness again.

And using primers is usually a good idea. It does two things:

1. It creates a monotone base color so that all your colors have a uniform brightness of base from which to start. For an extreme example, say you took a zebra figure and did some modifications so it looks like a prehistoric horse, and now you need to paint. If you didn't primer the figure and paint it mostly in tan, your tan has to go over abrupt transitions of black and white stripes, which will show through the first few layers of paint. You'll need a lot of coats before you get a uniform tan that doesn't show stripes underneath. If you primer it a uniform color, usually gray, then you'll get better coverage with fewer coats.

2. It makes for better paint adhesion. Primer is formulated a bit differently than paint. Whereas paint has to balance between opacity, flow, brightness, pigmentation, etc, primer doesn't have to deal with properties that make for a good top coat. One of the things a dedicated primer then focuses on is adhesion. Usually primers adhere better to the surface than paints, and paints adhere better to primers than to the raw surface. So it acts as an adhesion intermediary between paint and surface. This makes primers terrible top coats because dust and stains will more easily stick to it. You'll also find that many spray primers will dry with a slight toothy surface. Toothy surfaces take paint better than slick ones.

So if you're going to primer something, it's better to use an actual primer than it is to use a paint as a primer. The drawback to primers is they don't come in as many colors as paints. People often prefer to use as few coats as they can to cover, so choose to "primer" using a colored paint. This would certainly take care of number 1, but defeats the purpose of number 2.

Oh, and always, always, clean your figures with warm soapy water and rinse completely then dry before going to your primer or painting stage. You don't need to rewash it after you've primed unless you've handled it a lot. The purpose of washing with soapy water as an early step is to wash away the slippery mold release that may still be there from factory processes.

Thanks, your responses are always very helpful and detailed

[tyrantqueen]

Sorry for the double posting, but I am thinking about repainting some Invictas (there are only about 2 Invicta figures I actually like)

The only thing that worries me is whether the paint will be able to adhere to the plastic. As everyone knows, Invicta toys have a smooth wax like surface.

I was wondering if anyone else has ever tried to paint Invictas before? I'm not talking about the factory painted ones.

I googled and found these, they look pretty good

[Jetoar]

Wow! I like it. Good custom of Invicta dinosaurs. I thik that a good repainted do miracle sometimes  .

[Himmapaan]

Perhaps if you prime the figure first, there shouldn't be a problem. Unless even the primer has difficulty adhering too. I think you should just try it and see. If it adheres, so much the better. If not, then it would be easy to remove. You won't lose either way.

[Takama]

I had two Ivicta Brachiosaurs so i decided to paint one of them, However after pinting on a base color for one week, i got side tracked with school.   



when i finally made it back to painting it, the old paint came off like rubber.... so i just scrapped the idea and washed it off in the shower

I decided to just store it away afterwards

I used an acrylic Enamel type paint BTW