Which CollectA Mapusaurus do you prefer?

[Blade-of-the-Moon]

The first one is admittedly better. I like the head better on the first one also. The body structure almost reminds me of the Battat theropods (yes I know blasphemy)

I like the tail on the second one. That's about it :/

Will CollectA even listen to us? Have they ever listened to their fans in the past? Perhaps they could release both, as a male and female XDDD

You never know, if CollectA receive enough request to release the original version in addition to this one, they might just. When they did a poll last year about their two Sable antelope prototype, and both look amazing, fans beg to have both versions released instead of just one. So they listen, and they did release the two versions, they just converted the second one into a female sable antelope. So who knows? They do listen, but according to CollectA, the second version of this figures is the more "accurate" one of the two.  They said that they increased the muscles in the tail and neck area, and changed the hand (remember when people complained about the hand being too splayed?  )
Anyway, I'm no dinosaur expert, but who knows what info they based their decision to revise this model.
With the Rhomaleosaur, they delayed the release of it and send the prototype back for revisions so it is more accurate. One never knows

No expert myself of course and I can understand a little thickening of the muscles..but this one went just a bit too far I think.  Same with their new T-Rex..it's just so " thick " .  I know paleontologists have been saying reconstructions should be beefed up but these just seem too heavy and low to the ground for their legs even...and of course that odd mouth on the Rex.  From what I've read online, some additional muscle in the neck and the base of the tail is where most had their complaints.  This one looks to have rounded out all over though.. :?

The hands..I never had a real issue with. But the new ones are still too big and not nearly as finely sculpted as the original ones either.

[postsaurischian]

Will CollectA even listen to us? Have they ever listened to their fans in the past? Perhaps they could release both, as a male and female XDDD

There was a poll held on 'Schleichtiersammler' Forum, where CollectA asked the members which version of the 2012 Giant Sable Antelope they liked more. The people couldn't decide, so they're releasing both this year - as male and female .

So obviously they do listen to their fans.

[Roselaar]

The disappointment of the released Mapusaurus not withstanding, I do very much appreciate Collecta listening to fans and collectors, plus their other releases this year are good enough overall to make this letdown be excused. I do hope they pick up on all this buzz and won't repeat this mistake though.

[Jetoar]

 I think so . I like the prototype. The final figure, from my point of view, has overweight  The prototype was perfect.  *orthocone*

[SBell]

Alright, so after all this, I decided to just get in touch with Anthony Beeson at CollectA, rather than let the rampant speculation go on.  Here is what he had to say:

Well what you have seen was a prototype sample that I was disatisfied with and that was not put into production. It was made at the end of 2010. Until I have the opportunity to study a sample at the end of the modelling process one never knows how a model will turn out as just inspecting emailed images  is often misleading. I did not like this one and it should not have been shown to anyone, but we had to use it for the catalogue photograph as that had to be shot back in September and the remodelled one was not finished.  I suggested that the model was positioned facing the camera so that its shortcoming's were not so noticeable. On studying it the first model just looked ridiculous to my eyes as it had such a puny tail and body and I could not stand the appearance once I held it in my hands. If you study the actual mounted skeleton of the adult mapusaurus in the museum display of a family group you will see just what a bulky creature it was.  Gregory Paul's illustration bears little relationship to that stage of the animal's development to my eyes and seems to portray a young animal.  Body, legs and tail were subsequently altered to resemble more what I imagined the animal to have looked like. Remember we all have our own ideas as to the appearance of these creatures and it is easy to jump to conclusions through being used to seeing images without studying the subject afresh. I sincerely believe that we have imagined dinosaurs too long as somewhat too svelte. Recent studies have shown that both duckbills and Tyrannosaurus had great muscle mass behind their hips, and I am keen to show this in Collecta models and not just slavishly and safely follow what has gone before.  I notice that the Mapusaurs featured in the new BBC series have also been shown as pretty bulky. The head on the toy is the original one and has not been altered in any way, as I had taken great pains with that and was happy with it. I am not sure what other details you are referring to. I was not happy with the arms of the first model as they and the hands seemed too large for the body. Unfortunately it was discovered that there were problems in moulding the clenched hands when trying to mass produce the creature in toy form and that detail was altered at the factory without my input. What works in a sample does not always work in high production. Peter tries to be obliging to enquirers and made the mistake of sending the chap a picture of the first unproduced sample, but that courtesy in this case seems to have resulted in a tirade of nonsense...a real Jurassic storm in a tea cup.

So, there you go.  We have now made it so that they will be reluctant to give early pictures!

But otherwise:

• Head is the same
  
• Body, tail and legs were bulked up
• Arms were left too big due to production issues

I'm not really surprised by the changes, or that there were any.  I have been involved with this sort of thing in various ways for 10 years, and it's all part of the process.

[ZoPteryx]

Thank you for posting the official situation SBell, that clears a lot of things up!   You know, the more I look at the new Mapusaurus, the more I kinda like it, except for the arms, those I'll never get used to!

[Seijun]

I think there are right ways to bulk up a therapod, and then there are wrong ways. The new Mapu most certainly looks like the wrong way to me. I would MUCH rather have a slender, younger looking animal, than the bloated abomination I am now faced with. Chunkier may be more accurate for an adult animal, but the way it was done on Collecta's Mapu just does not look natural or realistic to me.

[SBell]

I think there are right ways to bulk up a therapod, and then there are wrong ways. The new Mapu most certainly looks like the wrong way to me. I would MUCH rather have a slender, younger looking animal, than the bloated abomination I am now faced with. Chunkier may be more accurate for an adult animal, but the way it was done on Collecta's Mapu just does not look natural or realistic to me.

The biggest problem is that the way a dinosaur should be bulked up is fairly foreign to our mammal eyes--most of the muscle power comes from the thighs and base of the tail--so the bulk of the mass would be there too. But for us, we are very used to seeing reconstructions that follow the skeletons closely, which would be a very thin, sickly animal (or of course, before the thin-and-fast models, the fat and slow versions that were around up tot he mid-80s for the most part!).

[Himmapaan]

So, there you go.  We have now made it so that they will be reluctant to give early pictures!

And perhaps, to surmise from the manner of some of the complaints, reluctant to do much else. 

Perhaps the whole model needed resculpting afresh to really work. Altering just a few features almost always throws the whole out of joint, unfortunately.

[Meso-Cenozoic]

I wonder why they had trouble making the arms smaller, since they made the arms pretty tiny on their new bulked up T.rex w/ prey. His hands are fairly clenched as well.

[DinoToyForum]

So, there you go.  We have now made it so that they will be reluctant to give early pictures!

We understand that figures go through a prototype stage - the release of early pictures is not a problem. However, if those images are not updated appropriately when the figure goes on sale, that's misrepresentation.  Concerns over a possible case of false advertising should not be dismissed as 'a storm in a teacup'.

[Blade-of-the-Moon]

I think there are right ways to bulk up a therapod, and then there are wrong ways. The new Mapu most certainly looks like the wrong way to me. I would MUCH rather have a slender, younger looking animal, than the bloated abomination I am now faced with. Chunkier may be more accurate for an adult animal, but the way it was done on Collecta's Mapu just does not look natural or realistic to me.

Exactly. That's my problem 100% .  The older piece when compared to this is better is what I've been trying to get at...the new one is bulked up ..but not in a good way. I've seen art of thicker more robust dinosaurs that was great..this guy..isn't really.

I guess we just don't have to buy it. :/

[Simon]

I am frankly far less concerned what the original Mapusaurus looked like in Mr. Beeson's hands as I am how it would have looked in profile on my shelf - awesome.

The "new" one?  We'll never know because I won't take even if Dan threw it in as a 'freebie'.  its simply horrendous.

Mr. Beeson's approach has generally been a well-needed and welcome one regarding actively trying to improve the quality of the sculpts - in this case however, a finished piece of art was compromised for the sake of accuracy and the final product fails on both accounts.

The Mapusaurus should have been shelved for 2012 and a new sculpt commissioned from scratch.  As it is now its a Frankensteinian abomination.

[Bokisaurus]

Well, nice to read Anthony's explanation of the changes, its really great that he took the time to send such detailed letter. CollectA learned a lot this year in terns of quality control and being too "trusting" when sending out prototype advance photos. I'm sure we won't be seeing any of next year's figures early this fall like we did last year.
As far as this figure, I like it and have it on order already. The more I look at it, the more I'm liking it and not caring much for the difference. I cant wait tyo see in person how the T-rex looks like!

[Simon]

I think there are right ways to bulk up a therapod, and then there are wrong ways. The new Mapu most certainly looks like the wrong way to me. I would MUCH rather have a slender, younger looking animal, than the bloated abomination I am now faced with. Chunkier may be more accurate for an adult animal, but the way it was done on Collecta's Mapu just does not look natural or realistic to me.

Exactly. That's my problem 100% .  The older piece when compared to this is better is what I've been trying to get at...the new one is bulked up ..but not in a good way. I've seen art of thicker more robust dinosaurs that was great..this guy..isn't really.

I guess we just don't have to buy it. :/

Agree.  I'll just add that the prototype needed the tail thickened, especially behind the things/hips, and the torso to be made deeper under the pelvis;  what we got instead was the sculptor lathering extra clay all-around the body, from the neck on to the tip of the tail.  In the process, the entire chest, from what I can see, disappeared, and the arms mysteriously moved about 3 feet (on the real animal) higher than they should be.  As they are now, they would barely be able to scratch the promontory where the chest ought to be    The arms went from OK in the original to stick figures in the second version - where'd the shoulders go? 

As far as the head goes - the sculptor may have tried to use the same head, but it sure looks like in the process the lower jaw got pushed back a little and also slightly lost its sharp front edge so typical of Allosauroids.

I hope Mr. Beeson will come to agree that the second figure is a failure.  Kudos to his intentions to get it right, however.  I think the disconnect here was in the way that the sculptor altered the original figure, so I do not blame Beeson for it.

Better to have shelved it and had a resculpt done for 2013.  This is going to be a black eye on Collecta's reputation in my book until they have corrected it. 

This thing, along with the fat TRex with the impossibly bent/broken jaws, should have been sent back for a redo and not issued this year.

Collecta is still on balance my favorite company because of the volume of figures and gems like the EPIC Therizinosaurus;  however the quality is still not across-the-board as we can see in these last 2 examples ...

[Simon]

Well, nice to read Anthony's explanation of the changes, its really great that he took the time to send such detailed letter. CollectA learned a lot this year in terns of quality control and being too "trusting" when sending out prototype advance photos. I'm sure we won't be seeing any of next year's figures early this fall like we did last year.
As far as this figure, I like it and have it on order already. The more I look at it, the more I'm liking it and not caring much for the difference. I cant wait tyo see in person how the T-rex looks like!

Boki - the issue has nothing to do with the "advance photos" - the issue is that Collecta chose to issue a figure far inferior to the prototype.   They got caught with their pants down - I understand that Mr. Beeson may not like that, but the facts are facts.  You build up expectations and then do a 'bait and switch' - not good for PR - or for customer satisfaction.  The shortfalls of the issued Mapu we might have been able to live with - had we not seen that they deep-sixed a superior figure.  That we can't overlook.

[DinoToyForum]

I hope Mr. Beeson will come to agree that the second figure is a failure. 

That's just your subjective opinion - a third of the people who voted in the poll disagree with you.

Simon, your recent posts have an aggressive streak, please tone it down. 

[Roselaar]

So as I understand from Mr. Beeson's reply, Collecta's stock photo Mapusaurus will never see the light of day and we're stuck with the bloated Mapusaurus? I count that as a loss, even if the fat, short legged final release is more accurate. I really hope Collecta is listening to all this and will release the original sculpt regardless, if only just to please the nay-sayers here. I wouldn't want them to tick off Mr. Beeson though, since I agree his input does help Collecta's overall status as a scientifically correct toy line with educationally responsible qualities, despite the occasional mishap. But I just like the original Mapusaurus so much, I'm willing to risk it. It's not my call either way of course.

Let's face it, a cool looking, though somewhat incorrect, Theropod that can stand up straight is preferable to a fat ugly carnivore that keeps falling over because its legs can't support it, right? At least, the majority of the voters here seems to thinks so.

[Simon]

Sorry boss - will stop beating the dead horse - err ... piece of plastic! 

Admin - I removed the visual metaphor you posted, which was unnecessary. No more photos of that nature, please. Please do not reply to this message. Thanks. - Admin

[Mironimus]

When I first saw the picture with the two versions of Mapusaurus, I thought that this is a juvenile and an adult of Mapusaurus.
If this would be the case I somehow like both.