Jurassic World 2 discussion

[Takama]

New poster for the second Film. May or may not be legit



Any guesses on what the Dinosaur in the logo is?

[DinoLord]

The poster looks fan-made to me, with many elements borrowed from the JP3 logo design. Maybe the dinosaur is intended to be a Metriacanthosaurus?

[Viking Spawn]

Cool tag line!  LOL!

[SpartanSquat]

Also Collin said this new JW movie wont be called Jurassic World 2

[JurassicGeek09]

Here's my idea for a Jurassic World sequel. Please let me know what you all think. Please note, this is quoted directly from a conversation I had with another poster at AvP Galaxy so if it sounds like I was speaking with another person, that's why.

1st idea:
"Scientists have learned that the theme park idea just doesn't work. The dinosaurs, one way or another, escape and the whole thing falls apart. They decide instead to reintroduce dinosaurs into the wild, on the mainland, with modern animals. Their rationale is that due to the balance that ecosystems have lost thanks to human activity (namely hunting and poaching), dinosaurs could help restore various ecosystems around the world. The science has shown that when large animals go extinct in particular, it can affect the way plants grow (for example). The only problem of course is that this plan ultimately backfires because dinosaurs were not meant to co-exist with modern animals and they leave a considerably larger ecological footprint than any animal alive today. This becomes even more of a problem when hunters decide they want to go for the ultimate challenge and start targeting what few dinosaurs are in the wild and nearly hunt them all to death."

Reply:
"It's not the dinos that get out but the plants. Flying dinosaurs do escape after the 3rd movie so if anything they carried what are essentially alien plant seeds to new areas. The plants themselves spread as well. Which does cause a global pandemic of sorts. To counter this some countries decide to use a biological means of control and do indeed release herbivore dinosaurs into the wild. It works well enough that soon everyone is doing it but like anything, eventually they're too many dinos and hippies. No one can come up with a solution so somebody decides to take matters into their own hands and release a few meat eaters. Of course the ones they release out of ignorance are the super intelligent militaristic killing machines. Of course now every hunter in the world wants to bag a prize and governments are more than willing to pay for a non-military solution.

yea yea it's the some more of the hippies release the big bad virus and rednecks release the big bad virus and I'm not sure if 3 years is enough time to justify this shit as the movie is suppose to happen in real time. Still I feel the biological control concept has a little more reasoning to it."

Final revision:
"The pterosaurs that escaped Isla Sorna in JP3 spread the seeds, as you mentioned. The seeds cause some mayhem in modern ecosystems; let's say the African Savannah. I'm using that because Africa has the ideal climate for a Jurassic Park film and the AS is known for lots of wildlife. Now, modern animals are unable to consume these new foreign plants because they grew in isolation from the mainland and consequently, only the dinosaurs can stomach them. So, cue the release of herbivores on a trial basis so to speak to "clean up". This is where the balance aspect of my story would come into play. The dinosaurs are restoring order to the ecosystem but eventually, when the clean up is finished and they start feeding on regular plants, they start to spread all over the place and cause more harm than good. Now your idea comes up in that the world governments or whomever else cannot send in extermination squads because #dinolivesmatter. So theropods are created to clean up yet again which then totally spirals out of control and fucks up everything. The hunters and poachers could be a simple side story."

I cut out the smaller revisions from this conversation but there it is.

[Halichoeres]

Well, those are all completely biologically implausible, so they'd fit right in with the JP universe! The end of the first novel had one of the dinosaurs (Dryosaurus, I think?) overcoming the lysine deficiency by eating soy and escaping to mainland Costa Rica, so something getting loose in a natural ecosystem was definitely an idea that Crichton put out that would be easy to adapt.

[JurassicGeek09]

Do you think it's biologically implausible because of the lysine thing?

[CityRaptor]

No, it is biologically implausible because introducing a species like that is never a good idea. Ever heard of Invasive Species?

[Halichoeres]

Do you think it's biologically implausible because of the lysine thing?

Nah, actually most animals already can't make lysine and have to get it from their diets (us included). And let's say you wanted to make an animal deficient in alanine instead, genetic editing methods like CRISPR should make it possible to render alanine aminotransferase inoperable under certain conditions, for example.

I think it's implausible because I suspect that dinosaurs would actually fare rather poorly in modern ecosystems and find them inhospitable. They're equipped with a 65-200 million year old biochemistry, and plants have been in an evolutionary cold war with herbivores the entire time. So they've devised all kinds of interesting toxins that have at least the potential to wreck a dinosaur's digestive system. The partial pressure of oxygen in the atmosphere is also different, mostly lower, which would make their lives a little difficult. And the Earth is colder than most of the Mesozoic, to boot. They could do some damage in the tropics, but I think they would be pretty lousy invaders now. I think that applies even more forcefully to the scenario where ancient plants are the ones that get out. (Lots of plants that were common in the Mesozoic still persist, but I think it's telling that they do so in pretty marginal environments, like mountaintops and islands like New Zealand.)

[irimali]

I've always wondered how genetically engineered dinosaurs could survive without all the  species of symbiotic bacteria that would have lived in their digestive tracts.  Even if they had resurrected mesozoic plants to eat they'd have trouble digesting them.  Also, without colonies of helpful bacteria the dinosaurs would be more susceptible to infections  from harmful microorganisms.

   

[Gwangi]

I just recently got into a FaceBook debate about all this. Even if we found dinosaur DNA it doesn't mean we could  have it survive in a modern ecosystem. It would almost be an alien life form at this point. I knew Halichoeres would give a respectable reply anyway so didn't feel too much pressure to chime in. There is a great chapter on this very thing in Scott Sampson's "Dinosaur Odyssey" which is a great book in general anyway, with a lot devoted to dinosaur ecology.

[CityRaptor]

I've always wondered how genetically engineered dinosaurs could survive without all the  species of symbiotic bacteria that would have lived in their digestive tracts.  Even if they had resurrected mesozoic plants to eat they'd have trouble digesting them.  Also, without colonies of helpful bacteria the dinosaurs would be more susceptible to infections  from harmful microorganisms.

InGen probably modified them. Wu did mention some modifications made to the Indominus for reason other than look. Tree Frog DNA to help her cope better with the tropical climate, and cuttlefish DNA to make her grow faster. As none of the animals is pure, I can see imagine that similar modifications were done to the others, too.

As for Oxygen, it actually has been speculated that one of the Dinosaurs recipes for success are actually their superior lungs, which would allow them to cope with lower levels of oxygen. Indeed it seems that the Mesozoic had times with lower levels of oxygen, but still gigantic Sauropods.

Temperatures shouldn't be a problem either, at least depending on the species. We know that there were species existing in cold environments.

I agree that ecology should be the greatest problem ( not just Dinosaurs, but any prehistoric animal ), but the same would probably also happen if you could send modern animals back in time. Who knows what kind of dangerous bacteria and viruses were around back then? Yep, one would not just have to watch out for Saurians about to kill you...

[JurassicGeek09]

No, it is biologically implausible because introducing a species like that is never a good idea. Ever heard of Invasive Species?

I have. But this is Jurassic Park we're talking about. Building a dinosaur theme park was a bad idea to begin with and the entire franchise is storied around bad ideas.

Do you think it's biologically implausible because of the lysine thing?

I think it's implausible because I suspect that dinosaurs would actually fare rather poorly in modern ecosystems and find them inhospitable. They're equipped with a 65-200 million year old biochemistry, and plants have been in an evolutionary cold war with herbivores the entire time. So they've devised all kinds of interesting toxins that have at least the potential to wreck a dinosaur's digestive system. The partial pressure of oxygen in the atmosphere is also different, mostly lower, which would make their lives a little difficult. And the Earth is colder than most of the Mesozoic, to boot. They could do some damage in the tropics, but I think they would be pretty lousy invaders now. I think that applies even more forcefully to the scenario where ancient plants are the ones that get out. (Lots of plants that were common in the Mesozoic still persist, but I think it's telling that they do so in pretty marginal environments, like mountaintops and islands like New Zealand.)

It would need to be rationalized in the film, no doubt. In my scenario, the numbers would be kept low; that is, only a few species are reintroduced like five or six.

[CityRaptor]

I mean it seems like a bad idea even by JP Franchise standards.

[Gwangi]

Militarized dinosaurs seems like a bad idea to me but I think that's the road we're heading down. Honestly I think something similar to what JPFan sounds more interesting. Maybe not intentional releases into the wild but certainly a few accidentals. Or maybe dinosaurs used for some other applications. Maybe another organization *cough*Biosyn*cough* starts cloning dinosaurs and uses them for animal testing, pets, agriculture...the applications are endless. And maybe some dinosaurs escape into the wild that way and establish a wild population. It's the same thing that happens now with extant organisms. We have invasive pythons in Florida via the pet trade, invasive fish via aquaculture etc. etc. Maybe an animal rights group breaks into a testing facility and releases the dinosaurs into the wild. I'm just spit balling here but all that sound better and more realistic than the road we're heading down.

[CityRaptor]

I think your scenarios sound more plausible then the one by JPFan4Life, which sounds like something from a Simpsons episode...the one with the bird-eating lizards.

Skinner: Well, I was wrong. The lizards are a godsend.
Lisa: But isn't that a bit short-sighted? What happens when we're overrun by lizards?
Skinner: No problem. We simply unleash wave after wave of Chinese needle snakes. They'll wipe out the lizards.
Lisa: But aren't the snakes even worse?
Skinner: Yes, but we're prepared for that. We've lined up a fabulous type of gorilla that thrives on snake meat.
Lisa: But then we're stuck with gorillas!
Skinner: No, that's the beautiful part. When wintertime rolls around, the gorillas simply freeze to death.

[Gwangi]

I think your scenarios sound more plausible then the one by JPFan4Life, which sounds like something from a Simpsons episode...the one with the bird-eating lizards.

Skinner: Well, I was wrong. The lizards are a godsend.
Lisa: But isn't that a bit short-sighted? What happens when we're overrun by lizards?
Skinner: No problem. We simply unleash wave after wave of Chinese needle snakes. They'll wipe out the lizards.
Lisa: But aren't the snakes even worse?
Skinner: Yes, but we're prepared for that. We've lined up a fabulous type of gorilla that thrives on snake meat.
Lisa: But then we're stuck with gorillas!
Skinner: No, that's the beautiful part. When wintertime rolls around, the gorillas simply freeze to death.

lol, that's a great episode. But that episode exists because that is exactly the mentality that people have. The United States has invasive European starlings because the guy who released them wanted to bring over every bird ever mentioned in Shakespeare to the new world. So yeah, people do release exotic animals for idiotic reasons. If non-avian dinosaurs were around people might think similarly. Heck, in the real world you have people who want to release elephants, lions, and other mega-fauna into the United States in order to replace the mega-fauna here during the Ice Age. They call it Pleistocene re-wilding.

[stargatedalek]

Things like that sound pretty silly honestly, but rewilding in general isn't always a bad thing. For example tortoises being brought up from Mexico into their former range, or saiga antelope into Nordic Europe. As for that quote, it's not so far off from the reality of it all. Peacock bass in Florida for example have been a monumental conservation success, so far in the 30 odd years they've been swimming about they haven't become an issue yet and they've been nothing but help in limiting growth of more invasive non-natives, especially tilapia. Sorry for the derail I just have a habit of playing devils advocate

[Viking Spawn]

Speaking of invasion species, my experiences with them include the Asian Lady Beetle, Gypsy Moth, and European Hornet.  2 or the 3 are simply nuisances while the 3rd (moth) can be very destructive!  I was also surprised to learn that several types of wildflower in my backyard were invasive as well.   Queen Ann's Lace, Canadian Thistle, and Honeysuckles are very common where I live but all originated elsewhere.

But for all of the invasive species, I'm so happy for two of them!  Namely the Chinese and European Mantis!  I simply love those things!  With all of the negatives surrounding invasive types, not all of them are bad. 

Okay, I'm done.  Had to throw in my 2 cents.

As for invasive dinosaurs, if something like real Velociraptors got loose and established a breeding population, I could foresee them replacing the predator niches of local smaller predators such as feral cats, foxes, and native hunting birds.  Could you imagine sitting in your backyard watching squirrels gather nuts when suddenly one of them gets pounced by a hungry raptor that was in hiding for an ambush?!  Yeesh!!!

[CityRaptor]

Clever Girl!
I think I would at least once say that.

lol, that's a great episode. But that episode exists because that is exactly the mentality that people have. The United States has invasive European starlings because the guy who released them wanted to bring over every bird ever mentioned in Shakespeare to the new world. So yeah, people do release exotic animals for idiotic reasons. If non-avian dinosaurs were around people might think similarly. Heck, in the real world you have people who want to release elephants, lions, and other mega-fauna into the United States in order to replace the mega-fauna here during the Ice Age. They call it Pleistocene re-wilding.

Wow, seriously? Are those the same people who advocate for wild mustangs because horses are originally from North America?