You can support the Dinosaur Toy Forum by making dino-purchases through these links to Ebay and Amazon. Disclaimer: these and other links to Ebay.com and Amazon.com on the Dinosaur Toy Forum are often affiliate links, so when you make purchases through them we may make a commission.

avatar_Patrx

Ornithoscelida Rises: A New Family Tree for Dinosaurs

Started by Patrx, March 22, 2017, 06:48:52 PM

Previous topic - Next topic
Print
Go Down Pages 1 2 3 4 5
User actions

Takama

#20
March 23, 2017, 12:07:14 AM
Im just going to not do a hypsilophodon for now.  Shame, though as i really wanted to commision one

Neosodon

#21
March 23, 2017, 12:21:44 AM
Quote from: Takama on March 22, 2017, 11:41:17 PM
Neosodon are you forgeting about Kulindadromeous?
First time hearing about Kulindadromeous. But I'm not entirely convinced since the classification of Kulindadromeous is unspecific. It's classified as Ornithischia which according to this new discovery is now the same group that therapods are in. So it could be an exotic misfit plant eating therapod like Therizinosaurus.

"3,000 km to the south, the massive comet crashes into Earth. The light from the impact fades in silence. Then the shock waves arrive. Next comes the blast front. Finally a rain of molten rock starts to fall out of the darkening sky - this is the end of the age of the dinosaurs. The Comet struck the Gulf of Mexico with the force of 10 billion Hiroshima bombs. And with the catastrophic climate changes that followed 65% of all life died out. It took millions of years for the earth to recover but when it did the giant dinosaurs were gone - never to return." - WWD

CrypticPrism

#22
March 23, 2017, 12:25:55 AM
No, there's no way kulindadromeus is a theropod. It's definitely an ornithopod.
"Tip for flirting: carve your number into a potato and roll it towards eligible females you wish to court with."
"Reading is just staring at a dead piece of wood for hours and hallucinating
My DeviantArt: flipplenup.deviantart.com

Cloud the Dinosaur King

#23
March 23, 2017, 12:28:18 AM
Wow, this is revolutionary! I can't believe this! I blame Kulindadromeus and other feathered ornithopods, in a good way.

CrypticPrism

#24
March 23, 2017, 12:29:34 AM
Yes, indeed. Btw, cloud, I love your channel.
"Tip for flirting: carve your number into a potato and roll it towards eligible females you wish to court with."
"Reading is just staring at a dead piece of wood for hours and hallucinating
My DeviantArt: flipplenup.deviantart.com

Cloud the Dinosaur King

#25
March 23, 2017, 12:30:32 AM
Quote from: CrypticPrism on March 23, 2017, 12:29:34 AM
Yes, indeed. Btw, cloud, I love your channel.
Thank you.

CrypticPrism

#26
March 23, 2017, 12:31:54 AM
Quote from: Cloud the Dinosaur King on March 23, 2017, 12:30:32 AM
Quote from: CrypticPrism on March 23, 2017, 12:29:34 AM
Yes, indeed. Btw, cloud, I love your channel.
Thank you.

No prob. We should probably get back on topic.

Anyways, can someone explain where sauropods fit?
"Tip for flirting: carve your number into a potato and roll it towards eligible females you wish to court with."
"Reading is just staring at a dead piece of wood for hours and hallucinating
My DeviantArt: flipplenup.deviantart.com
Amazon ad:

Neosodon

#27
March 23, 2017, 12:32:30 AM
Quote from: CrypticPrism on March 23, 2017, 12:25:55 AM
No, there's no way kulindadromeus is a theropod. It's definitely an ornithopod.
How do you know?

"3,000 km to the south, the massive comet crashes into Earth. The light from the impact fades in silence. Then the shock waves arrive. Next comes the blast front. Finally a rain of molten rock starts to fall out of the darkening sky - this is the end of the age of the dinosaurs. The Comet struck the Gulf of Mexico with the force of 10 billion Hiroshima bombs. And with the catastrophic climate changes that followed 65% of all life died out. It took millions of years for the earth to recover but when it did the giant dinosaurs were gone - never to return." - WWD

CrypticPrism

#28
March 23, 2017, 12:35:59 AM
Quote from: Neosodon on March 23, 2017, 12:32:30 AM
Quote from: CrypticPrism on March 23, 2017, 12:25:55 AM
No, there's no way kulindadromeus is a theropod. It's definitely an ornithopod.
How do you know?

Mainly finger number and more skeletal similarities to heterodontosaurids than, say, a coleurosaur.
"Tip for flirting: carve your number into a potato and roll it towards eligible females you wish to court with."
"Reading is just staring at a dead piece of wood for hours and hallucinating
My DeviantArt: flipplenup.deviantart.com

Neosodon

#29
March 23, 2017, 12:55:14 AM
Quote from: CrypticPrism on March 23, 2017, 12:35:59 AM
Quote from: Neosodon on March 23, 2017, 12:32:30 AM
Quote from: CrypticPrism on March 23, 2017, 12:25:55 AM
No, there's no way kulindadromeus is a theropod. It's definitely an ornithopod.
How do you know?

Mainly finger number and more skeletal similarities to heterodontosaurids than, say, a coleurosaur.
I agree it looks like an ornithapod but I can't find anywhere were it's actually classified as an ornithapod. So scientists must not really be sure.

"3,000 km to the south, the massive comet crashes into Earth. The light from the impact fades in silence. Then the shock waves arrive. Next comes the blast front. Finally a rain of molten rock starts to fall out of the darkening sky - this is the end of the age of the dinosaurs. The Comet struck the Gulf of Mexico with the force of 10 billion Hiroshima bombs. And with the catastrophic climate changes that followed 65% of all life died out. It took millions of years for the earth to recover but when it did the giant dinosaurs were gone - never to return." - WWD

CrypticPrism

#30
March 23, 2017, 12:58:30 AM
On Wikipedia's article on kulindadromeus, it is considered part of ornithschia. Or whatever we're calling that group now.
"Tip for flirting: carve your number into a potato and roll it towards eligible females you wish to court with."
"Reading is just staring at a dead piece of wood for hours and hallucinating
My DeviantArt: flipplenup.deviantart.com

Loon

#31
March 23, 2017, 01:00:12 AM

In all seriousness, this is really interesting, and, forgive the pun, rather ground shaking in the grand scheme of things. I always found the relationship between the two saurischian groups to be rather strange.

CrypticPrism

#32
March 23, 2017, 01:06:13 AM
Quote from: LoonI always found the relationship between the two saurischian groups to be rather strange.

Amen.

Amen.
"Tip for flirting: carve your number into a potato and roll it towards eligible females you wish to court with."
"Reading is just staring at a dead piece of wood for hours and hallucinating
My DeviantArt: flipplenup.deviantart.com

Neosodon

#33
March 23, 2017, 01:18:02 AM Last Edit: March 23, 2017, 01:19:03 AM by Neosodon
Oops, ornithischia is not the same as ornithosceldia. The names look similar so I got them confused earlier.

"3,000 km to the south, the massive comet crashes into Earth. The light from the impact fades in silence. Then the shock waves arrive. Next comes the blast front. Finally a rain of molten rock starts to fall out of the darkening sky - this is the end of the age of the dinosaurs. The Comet struck the Gulf of Mexico with the force of 10 billion Hiroshima bombs. And with the catastrophic climate changes that followed 65% of all life died out. It took millions of years for the earth to recover but when it did the giant dinosaurs were gone - never to return." - WWD

The Atroxious

#34
March 23, 2017, 01:25:36 AM Last Edit: March 23, 2017, 01:59:27 AM by The Atroxious
Jeez, this thread is moving faster than a falcon in a stoop.

This is really interesting news. Seems like this decade is going to be one of the more revolutionary times of paleontology. Personally, I can't wait to see how this plays out. I can't say I ever expected to see Herrerasaurus proposed to be closer to sauropoda than to theropoda, and theropoda to be proposed as a sister group to ornithischia, but at the same time it makes some sort of sense in my mind. I'm no paleontologist, but I have noticed that there are quite a lot of superficial similarities between early theropods and early ornithischians, while early sauropodomorphs seem decidedly different. Such similarities don't necessarilly mean much, but in light of this new argument, they become an interesting thing to note.

One thing that occurs to me is that, should these changes become part of the scientific consensus, where would that leave saurischia on the dinosauriform family tree? If dinosauria is defined as Megalosaurus+Iguanodon+MRCA or Passer+Triceratops+MRCA, effectively using theropoda and ornithischia to define dinosauria, is there a chance that saurischians could be reclassified as their own branch of dinosauriformes instead of true dinosaurs upon further study? It seems unlikely due to the autapomorphies, but it was a topic that came up in real life for me today, so I've been wondering about this.

CrypticPrism

#35
March 23, 2017, 01:28:19 AM
Probably unlikely. I think that this just ties the group closer together, the image here doesen't do it justice. Sauropods are still related to theropods (I believe.)
"Tip for flirting: carve your number into a potato and roll it towards eligible females you wish to court with."
"Reading is just staring at a dead piece of wood for hours and hallucinating
My DeviantArt: flipplenup.deviantart.com

HD-man

#36
March 23, 2017, 03:06:28 AM
Quote from: Sim on March 22, 2017, 10:07:03 PMPersonally, I don't find this convincing for a number of reasons.  I'll wait for several response papers before worrying too much about major changes in classification.  Additionally, in this study Eoraptor is suggested to be more closely related to Heterodontosaurus than to Panphagia, with Eoraptor and Heterodontosaurus being part of "Ornithoscelida" which Panphagia isn't a member of.  However, to me it seems Eoraptor is very similar to Panphagia, while Heterodontosaurus looks very different to these two.  In his Eoraptor skeletal, Scott Hartman even mentioned how similar Eoraptor is to Panphagia.

Panphagia: http://scotthartman.deviantart.com/art/All-Eater-213027613
Eoraptor: http://scotthartman.deviantart.com/art/Dawn-Thief-281226156
Heterodontosaurus: http://scotthartman.deviantart.com/art/A-mouth-full-of-different-teeth-363337739


Quote from: stargatedalek on March 22, 2017, 09:18:54 PM
I don't think Herrerasaurus was ever considered a theropod, instead I do believe it was at one time considered close to the ancestral condition for the whole of dinosaurs.

Herrerasaurus has been considered to be a theropod by palaeontologists and has been found to be one in some phylogenetic analyses.

This.
I'm also known as JD-man at deviantART: http://jd-man.deviantart.com/

Halichoeres

#37
March 23, 2017, 03:51:57 AM
Quote from: The Atroxious on March 23, 2017, 01:25:36 AM
One thing that occurs to me is that, should these changes become part of the scientific consensus, where would that leave saurischia on the dinosauriform family tree? If dinosauria is defined as Megalosaurus+Iguanodon+MRCA or Passer+Triceratops+MRCA, effectively using theropoda and ornithischia to define dinosauria, is there a chance that saurischians could be reclassified as their own branch of dinosauriformes instead of true dinosaurs upon further study? It seems unlikely due to the autapomorphies, but it was a topic that came up in real life for me today, so I've been wondering about this.

The authors redefine Dinosauria as the least inclusive clade includnig Passer + Triceratops + Diplodocus. Dinosauria has such a long history and has had such a stable composition that I think people will go to some lengths to not disrupt it. I would be very surprised to see anyone try to argue that this means that herrerasaurids and sauropodomorphs aren't true dinosaurs.
In the kingdom of the blind, better take public transit. Well, in the kingdom of the sighted, too, really--almost everyone is a terrible driver.

My attempt to find the best toy of every species

My trade/sale/wishlist thread

Sometimes I draw pictures

Libraraptor

#38
March 23, 2017, 07:18:14 AM Last Edit: March 23, 2017, 07:19:08 AM by Libraraptor
Wow. This would be stunning but I am still careful.  Couldn't it also be that these scientists think "Well after all this feathered dinosaurs stuff we are afraid that public slowly loses interest and hence maybe we our jobs so let's quickly throw in something really weird to start a brand new controversity?"

CityRaptor

#39
March 23, 2017, 08:39:55 AM
Sounds like one of those conspiracy theories.
Jurassic Park is frightning in the dark
All the dinosaurs are running wild
Someone let T. Rex out of his pen
I'm afraid those things'll harm me
'Cause they sure don't act like Barney
And they think that I'm their dinner, not their friend
Oh no

Disclaimer: links to Ebay and Amazon are affiliate links, so the DinoToyForum may make a commission if you click them.


Amazon ad:
Print
Go Up Pages 1 2 3 4 5
User actions