CollectA 2019 Hopes and Dreams

[Halichoeres]

The roseate spoonbill also derives its coloration from dietary carotenoids:



The two birds are quite distantly related, so they arrived at this independently. I could imagine the intensity of coloration serving as a signal of body condition ("I'm healthy and well-fed") to conspecifics, especially in a mating context. To me that's a good ecological reason to find a pink Pterodaustro plausible, if nothing else. That said, the other five spoonbill species are mostly white, and it's hard to know what kinds of pigments might have been in Pterodaustro's prey.

[Ceratosaurus blogspot]

I believe that in 2019 we will have a deluxe version of Saurophaganax and Allosaurus.

But I would like to see a less fat version, with a more adequate height and supported by a base of the following models: Carcharodontosaurus, Acrocanthosaurus, Baryonyx (these ones at 1/40 scale) and Neovenator (this one at 1/20 scale).

[Ravonium]

But I would like to see a less fat version, with a more adequate height and supported by a base of the following models: Carcharodontosaurus, Acrocanthosaurus, Baryonyx (these ones at 1/40 scale) and Neovenator (this one at 1/20 scale).

If they do choose to release any model with a base next year, I hope for them to either a) give the base a color other than that ugly dark sand colour, b) add more details than footprints (add some rocks, plants or bones) or c) all of the above.

but if that is the case, with the Pterodaustro having psyncofibers rather than feathers...do you feel it likely it would still follow that analogy and be pink from eating shrimp? Interested to hear thoughts on that....just something that came to mind

If you buy into the theory that pycnofibres and feathers are related structures, then I don't see how the same analogy wouldn't apply.

[Sim]

but if that is the case, with the Pterodaustro having psyncofibers rather than feathers...do you feel it likely it would still follow that analogy and be pink from eating shrimp? Interested to hear thoughts on that....just something that came to mind

If you buy into the theory that pycnofibres and feathers are related structures, then I don't see how the same analogy wouldn't apply.

Not all feathers work the same.  I'm not an expert on this, but my understanding is: Pycnofibres are like hair and filamentous/down feathers in lacking a complex structure, and consequently not like pennaceous feathers.  Due to lacking a complex structure, hair and filamentous/down feathers have never been observed to be colours like blue, purple, pink or green on their own.  Green hair in sloths is due to algae that grows in it.  So for prehistoric animals it seems these colour restrictions would apply not just to hair, but also to pycnofibres and to feathers that aren't pennaceous, unless they somehow achieved the colour in a way that is not currently known.

As far as I'm aware, baby flamingos never have pink feathers, and I think they have the same diet that gives the adults the pink in their feathers?  This would be consistent with baby flamingos not having pennaceous feathers.

[Halichoeres]

It might be a trick of the light, but these downy spoonbill chicks look to be a little pink:


In this paper researchers altered the coloration of (downy) great tit nestlings by feeding them carotenoids: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1046/j.1420-9101.2003.00483.x

I'm not sure if anybody has really looked at how pigments may have been deposited in pycnofibres, but their structural simplicity might only militate against structural colors, not dietary pigments. So I wouldn't expect iridescent or brilliant blue pterosaurs (well, maybe the latter on bare skin), but I'm not sure pinks can be ruled out.

[Neosodon]

Hard to say but it looks like it could just be pink skin. The baby fluff is so thin you can kind of see through it.

[Halichoeres]

Could be. This one has some unambiguous pink--but only on the vaned feathers.

[Sim]

It might be a trick of the light, but these downy spoonbill chicks look to be a little pink:

I did a Google Images search for "roseate spoonbill baby", and there's a lot of photos that seem to show their down feathers are white, with the pink being on the skin underneath the feathers and on the growing pennaceous feathers on the wings.  For the photo you posted, I think the reason the babies look pink might be due to their pink skin under the feathers being visible or it might be the pink of the adult is being reflected off them.

In this paper researchers altered the coloration of (downy) great tit nestlings by feeding them carotenoids: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1046/j.1420-9101.2003.00483.x

I've found this paper difficult to view.  Does it say or show anywhere that the colouration that was altered was on down feathers?  It seems it doesn't take long for great tit nestlings to grow pennaceous feathers.

I'm not sure if anybody has really looked at how pigments may have been deposited in pycnofibres, but their structural simplicity might only militate against structural colors, not dietary pigments. So I wouldn't expect iridescent or brilliant blue pterosaurs (well, maybe the latter on bare skin), but I'm not sure pinks can be ruled out.

I think iridescence could be possible for pycnofibres actually, since golden moles have iridescent hair.

[Halichoeres]

Interesting. I hadn't thought of golden moles.

They don't have any images of the actual chicks, so I guess I can't be sure. They aren't explicit about it. You're right that passerine chicks don't take long to make contour feathers.

It's not obvious to me why it would be impossible to deposit carotenoids on a hair or a simple feather, in any event. I don't know enough organic chemistry to see why that should be so. The most obvious difference between them is that they're hydrophobic whereas at least some melanins are hydrophilic, but I'm not sure why then that would make a pennaceous feather able to hold them but not a down feather. There might BE a reason, I just don't know what it would be.

[Halichoeres]

Forgive the double post, but after consulting a friend of mine who studies bird coloration, I've learned that the simple downy feathers of American coot chicks bear coloration that can only come from carotenoids:

This is a peculiar ecological situation, where there is good reason to have an honest signal of body condition, because adults routinely engage in filicide, and seem to kill their weakest chicks preferentially, which would be reflected by a lower intensity of plumage color. According to my friend, the dull colors usually found in down feathers probably has very little to do with their inherent ability to deposit pigments and much more to do with the role that down usually plays, which is either insulation (where they would be covered by contour feathers and hence invisible) or camouflage (in the case of most chicks). In most instances it simply wouldn't be worth the metabolic expense of loading up down feathers with carotenoids.

Back to the point at hand, I continue to think pink pycnofibres on a crustacean-eating filter feeder is pretty plausible and at a minimum not currently falsifiable given the scant research on pycnofibre histology.

Bonus golden plover chick. Not sure if this is carotenoids, but it could be!

[amargasaurus cazaui]

It would seem for once I have posed a rather amusing question to wonder about.....if indeed Pterosaurs were able to use their diet to provide coloration is it a given their diet choices would be limited to pink bearing prey items, or is it possible in the less evolved food-chain their diet foods of choice might have been gifted with other color options? Perhaps instead of flaming pink flamingo flying phantoms they might have been breathtakingly baby blue bemoths of the sky?

[Mini Minmi]

Pink/orange/red is the only color I am familiar with that comes as a result of eating a specific diet. Are there example of other colors as well in the current world? What type of food would one eat to turn blue?

*edited to add*
Never mind, a quick research brought blue footed boobies to my attention. Amongst other examples.

[QuetzalcoatlusKing]

I would love some more Dino Corpses. Maybe a hadrosaur or two, perhaps a Parasaurolophous and sommee other duckbill body. I would also like to see an Ankylosaurus or Sauropod corpse.

[Sim]

It's interesting to see examples of brightly coloured down feathers, and an explanation for why they occur.  Thanks for sharing that, Halichoeres.  I already thought baby chickens can have quite brightly coloured down feathers, but it's good to see other examples of this as it gives a better idea of the possibilities.

I notice that these brightly coloured down feathers are all colours that are possible in hair though, e.g. yellow, orange.  I've not seen any down feathers in the colours I think I remember reading would not be possible under normal conditions, e.g. blue, green, purple and pink.  Maybe pink is more of a possibility than those other three colours?  I wonder though, if not being worth the metabolic expense is the reason the down feathers aren't pink in the roseate spoonbill babies, why is their skin under the feathers pink?

I've read a comment by Matt Martyniuk in which he says the ability to give feathers colour from carotenoids appears restricted to Neoaves, with more "basal" birds using other methods to achieve bright colours (in feathers I imagine he means, I'll explain why further down in this post).  He also says pycnofibres seem even less complex than down feathers, consequently making their colour options more limited than what is possible in feathers and more like what is possible in hair.  Here's a link to Matt's comment: http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/2013/06/04/the-great-pterosaur-makeover/#comment-54019

The reason I said I think Matt Martyniuk was referring to feathers only when he said more "basal" birds used non-carotenoid methods to achieve bright colours, is because reading the Pterodaustro Wikipedia Talk page, Matt mentions how all tetrapods can apparently use carotenoids to pigment skin, even non-neoavians: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Pterodaustro

[Shonisaurus]

I suppose the ptedodaustro would be similar to the pelicans with its beak filtering the food. I would like a pink pterosaur since it would resemble the aforementioned bird.

[DragonRider02]

I would love some more Dino Corpses. Maybe a hadrosaur or two, perhaps a Parasaurolophous and sommee other duckbill body. I would also like to see an Ankylosaurus or Sauropod corpse.

How about dead pterosaur? Or a marine reptile!

[IrritatorRaji]

I hope they don't make another T.rex variant tbh.

I'd love to see some more Spinosaurs from them, like Suchomimus, Oxalaia, and, even though there's a little bit of controversy around it, Cristatusaurus.

More Megalosaurs would be nice. Condorraptor, Piatnitzkysaurus, Dubreuillosaurus... Heck, even a new Megalosaurus figure itself. We need a new great Megalosaur figure that isn't from the 1970's. More than anything though, I want them to revisit their Eustreptospondylus. It's one of my favourite dinosaurs and they've come such a long way since their last attempt.

[Sim]

It turns out carotenoids occur in the feathers of some non-neoavian birds, as this paper says: http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/281/1788/20140806.short

[QuetzalcoatlusKing]

I would love some more Dino Corpses. Maybe a hadrosaur or two, perhaps a Parasaurolophous and sommee other duckbill body. I would also like to see an Ankylosaurus or Sauropod corpse.

How about dead pterosaur? Or a marine reptile!

that sounds interesting. Maybe some Ice Age beasts like a dead Mammoth?

[suspsy]

I would love some more Dino Corpses. Maybe a hadrosaur or two, perhaps a Parasaurolophous and sommee other duckbill body. I would also like to see an Ankylosaurus or Sauropod corpse.

How about dead pterosaur? Or a marine reptile!

that sounds interesting. Maybe some Ice Age beasts like a dead Mammoth?

I like the idea of a dead pterosaur, but before CollectA does a dead mammoth, I think they need to make a new live one.