The lack of Certain Dinosaurs in the Toy Market is disappointing

[John]

Every year,there are always unexpected new species turning up in various lines.Who would have seen Psittacosaurus sibericus coming?Especially from such a mainstream line as Schleich?Or so many prehistoric mammals from THREE lines all at once after not seeing that many for years?So you never know what will turn up just around the corner.

[suspsy]

Compared to T. rex and Stegosaurus, yes, Giganotosaurus and Kentrosaurus do indeed seem underrepresented. But the DTB currently has eight reviews for Giganotosaurus toys and ten for Kentrosaurus ones, so I'd say they're still doing pretty darned well. There's also the upcoming Mojo Fun Giganotosaurus. Oh, and the 2015 Schleich Giganotosaurus is still waiting for somebody to review it.
*hint*

I agree that ornithomimosaurs need better representation, Deinocheirus notwithstanding. I'd also like to see more hadrosaurs besides Parasaurolophus. Triassic animals in general are generally rare too.

And I suspect that it's only a matter of time before CollectA releases some new dromaeosaurs.

[Sim]

The only non-action figures that represent dromaeosaurids well are the Wild Safari 2017 Velociraptor and Microraptor.

Yep. If you want, say, a good Deinonychus, for example, I hope you're prepared to spend resin kit money. Which is bizarre, I mean, it's a really historically important dinosaur and quite famous.
Oh, the Kaiyodo "Kitadaniryu" is a decent generic velociraptorine dromaeosaur, but it is tiny and can be tough to find as well as pricey.

Regarding the Kaiyodo "Kitadaniryu", I think it's not consistent with the current understanding of dromaeosaurid feathering as being bird-like, being representative of an earlier style of under-feathering these animals.  I think the most noticeable sign of this is the Kaiyodo figure being featherless on the skin around the end of the pubis.  It's not the only time I've seen that area left featherless in a feathered dromaeosaurid reconstruction and I don't understand the logic behind doing it, as it doesn't seem to be based on anything real and I find it very unappealing.  The wing feathers on the Kaiyodo figure's forelimbs also look a bit odd to me.  From photos I find it hard to tell how much of its tail is covered in feathers, but in any case I'd expect rectrices to be present on dromaeosaurids in general.

[Halichoeres]

is Vitae considered a "toy" brand since some of their figures are resin?

I would say so; Favorite also makes resin figures but their plastic figures count as toys in my book.

I agree with others who have expressed that the last couple of years have actually been pretty solid as far as neglected groups getting their due. PNSO was a big part of this. I think Vitae has potential in this respect, although I also think Giganotosaurus, for example, is not a terribly adventurous choice (although, yes, better than the 9 millionth T. rex). In terms of dinosaurs sensu stricto, non-hadrosaur ornithopods, basal ornithischians, basal sauropodomorphs, ornithomimosaurs, and all avialans except Archaeopteryx are fairly neglected. But it's outside of dinosaurs that you find some truly criminal neglect: ambulacrarians, lophotrochozoans, vascular plants, arthropods (except Anomalocaris and Olenoides), fishes (except Dunkleosteus and, ugh, megalodon), and even many amniote lineages.

Again, I stress that the situation is better now than it has ever been, but hey, if we all buy fewer Tyrannosaurus figures, maybe it will make some space for something new and interesting. I believe CollectA has made six versions of Tyrannosaurus in the last three years; to my mind those are all slots that would have been better filled with...almost anything.

[terrorchicken]

seriously we need more Paleocene representation...

[John]

Again, I stress that the situation is better now than it has ever been, but hey, if we all buy fewer Tyrannosaurus figures, maybe it will make some space for something new and interesting. I believe CollectA has made six versions of Tyrannosaurus in the last three years; to my mind those are all slots that would have been better filled with...almost anything.

Or it could backfire and they all take that as "Okay people are sick of dinosaurs since sales are down.Axe the prehistoric stuff and onto the next thing!"

[mgaguilar]

Again, I stress that the situation is better now than it has ever been, but hey, if we all buy fewer Tyrannosaurus figures, maybe it will make some space for something new and interesting. I believe CollectA has made six versions of Tyrannosaurus in the last three years; to my mind those are all slots that would have been better filled with...almost anything.

Or it could backfire and they all take that as "Okay people are sick of dinosaurs since sales are down.Axe the prehistoric stuff and onto the next thing!"

I do agree that that is excessive. Mojo is pretty bad about it too, with several unique Rex sculpts and many repaints, all within the past few years.
But I do think those sales hopefully opened the door to other figures, like their new Baryonyx coming out this year that looks great.

[Sim]

It's occurred to me is that what is under-represented can differ for different figure lines.  I think this is important because the style and production quality isn't the same for every line.  So one line might lack certain types of dinosaurs, while another has several or more of these.  Ultimately, there are certain species/groups that have a lot of representation across different lines while others have a noticeable lack of representation from prehistoric figure lines in general.

Do I think any prehistoric species has been made too often?  Yes, Tyrannosaurus rex at least.  Some time ago I was wondering why I felt tired of T. rex figures, and then I noticed that for the last five years between CollectA and Safari alone there's been at least one new T. rex figure every year:

2018: CollectA deluxe
2017: Wild Safari
2016: CollectA Standard, CollectA corpse
2015: CollectA deluxe, CollectA mini
2014: Carnegie Collection, CollectA juvenile

Also in the above time period, PNSO made T. rex figures.  This bothered me as it was clear they were giving it priority over under-represented species.  In their largest model series, they were clearly focusing on Chinese dinosaurs, but the only theropod in this series was the non-Chinese T. rex.  Triceratops also was a non-Chinese dinosaur in this series, I guess PNSO wasn't able to resist making these two.  At least they did give a few obscure Chinese species representation.

What bothers me a lot more is in PNSO's smaller figure line, the one Wilson and Doyle are part of, making Tyrannosaurus and Triceratops again and before any other species prevented the production of a number of figures which would have provided much-needed representation for certain dinosaurs.  I'm not saying T. rex and Triceratops just shouldn't be made, but the way I see it is these two already receive a lot of representation, and they were already made by PNSO for their large figure series.  Also, I find Wilson and Doyle ugly representations of these animals.  If I'm remembering right, the figures that ended up never being released included Yangchuanosaurus, Huayangosaurus, and a second stegosaur, all of which looked like great figures of these under-represented animals, a Giganotosaurus, Spinosaurus and Amargasaurus that from what I remember looked like interesting takes on these animals, and a Mosasaurus I felt wasn't a convincing representation.  Since PNSO experienced problems that prevented them releasing any more figures, they were only able to produce three from this series.  If only it had been any of the unreleased dinosaurs instead of the T. rex and Triceratops.  At least they managed to release their Mamenchisaurus.

I gather that PNSO gave priority to Tyrannosaurus and Triceratops because of the popularity of these two dinosaurs.  I can't help feeling disappointed by this though, and it's interesting to realise the only non-mini figure theropod PNSO ever released was Tyrannosaurus.

[Syndicate Bias]

im still hoping to one day see the pnso unreleased dinosaurs, specifically the giganotosaurus, yangchuanosaurus, spino and amargasaurus. but only one can hope

[suspsy]

I totally understand why some people are disappointed by the ongoing dominance of T. rex, Triceratops, and other members of the Ultra Elite Iconic Dinosaurs Club, and I sympathize with them. I am an unabashed T. rex fan first and foremost, but I also enjoy variety and I love weird dinosaurs. That said, I think this is something everyone just has to accept as part of life and move on from. These iconic dinosaurs are exactly like lions and elephants and horses; you can't have a successful animal toyline without them. You just can't. Anyone who claims otherwise is only fooling him or herself. These animals will always sell better than other species, no matter how nifty the latter might be. Shoot, even Southlands Replicas decided to include a family of horses in their line, despite them obviously not being native to Australia. They probably would eventually include a T. rex if there was some way to get around the whole geography thing.

[Shonisaurus]

A merchant who unfortunately broke and who was a regular buyer of his dinosaur figures (especially Carnegie / Safari) told me that in the market for toys of dinosaurs and other toy animals, the dinosaurs that most demand children are the tyrannosaurus rex, triceratops and brachiosaurus and some manged figure like dimetrodon, pteranodon, allosaurus.

I understand that is the reason that these figures, especially tyrannosaurs and triceratops, are repeated on the market, and others of the same species as other tyrannosaurids or ceraptosides are so undervalued and I believe that it is globalized.

Tyrannosaurus rex and triceratops are obviously the kings within the species of dinosaurs.

With regard to mammals, the primigenius mammoth and the smilodon are the best known among children, by series of cartoons.

The toy companies fold more to the demands of children than to collectors obviously. 

[Syndicate Bias]

i get its business anyways, i mean im not helping the cause i have the t Rex and for me its a mist have because its iconic and well no collection should go without one, i love the giganotosaurus but i guess recent releases point out to a brighter future among companies to develop more variety

[Bokisaurus]

See how spoiled we have become with all of these new figures?
Well, we can't all be happy. IN all honesty, the reality is that Tyrannosaurus will alway be a top seller and he won't be going away or replaced anytime soon. He is the goose that keeps on laying the golden egg when it comes to sales. And sale is #1 for all companies, that's why they are in business 
The desire to see obscure or underrepresented species is a huge challenge and gamble with little reward. Many of these species or group are just too obscure beyond the collector market to be worth the investment.
It's like a baker who decided he will sell Lima bean cupcakes instead of those delicious kind

CollectA has done a good job of trying to address this issue, just look at the USL list. I often read when a new obscure species is released by them mostly not very supportive, people saying they won't buy it because of....., ( fill in the blanks), this does not help the cause at all. No company would want to read this kind of statement after taking the risk.
Sure, one could argue that they sculpting is not that good or there is just something off about it. But CollectA has proven that they continue to improve year after year. If no one will support such venture, then it's simply not worth the investment in producing such figures.

As for CollectA's rexes, yes they have produced a lot in the span of a few years, but so did the other companies out there.
But one thing that is always overlooked is that for each tyrannosaur rex CollectA released , they have countered it by also released one of it's relative. If you look at it, for each rex they released, there is a different species of tyrannosaurus that goes with it, so its 50/50 at this point. I can't think of another company that has done this to date.
Just my two cents

[sauroid]

in my case, i really don't mind the non-stop production of T. rexes (and other iconic animals) and i will keep buying them as long as they make them at least not look revolting *cough*schleich*cough

[Syndicate Bias]

Im waiting for PNSO Giganotosaurus to make a hopeful appearance and hopefully rebor and papo make a giganotosaurus. well papo i know they will but rebor, i don't wanna know how they could make their Giganotosaurus awesomebro lol

[Fembrogon]

It would certainly help if the media at large gave more variety of dinosaurs the spotlight. I don't think there's any question about how Velociraptor and Spinosaurus became bankable/household names...

[Sim]

I wasn't suggesting to have a normal toy line without T. rex or Triceratops, I was considering how often these, in particular T. rex, is made.  It's interesting that the Battat Terra line is still around even though it doesn't have a Triceratops.  I don't think it's wrong for certain dinosaurs to get more attention, T. rex and Triceratops are very popular so I think it's right they are represented often.  As one example, I think it was justified to make a new T. rex for Wild Safari in 2017.   I feel that some times making another T. rex for a line that already had one wasn't necessary, and this makes it tiresome to see this endless series of T. rex figures that continues each year.  It's not a big deal to me though.

I don't think the situation is necessarily the same for high-end lines where collectors are a larger part of the customers.  While the dinosaurs that were popular in normal/children's toy lines can still be popular in high-end lines, I think the higher price range can give some less-represented species the opportunity to match or possibly even exceed more popular species as a good seller.

These animals will always sell better than other species, no matter how nifty the latter might be.

Maybe most of the time, but I doubt they will always sell better if high-end lines are included.  The example of a high-end line I'm going to use is PNSO.  Out of their line with the very large figures, the impression I got was that the T. rex was one of the least popular figures.  Here's a link to Everything Dinosaur's PNSO section, with the figures listed in order of popularity: https://www.everythingdinosaur.com/product-category/models-and-inflatables/pnso-age-of-dinosaurs/?product_orderby=popularity&product_count=48
That large T. rex is shown as the second least popular of the very large models, with only the Lufengosaurus being less popular.  This large T. rex is joined by Wilson and Doyle as among the least popular of the non-mini PNSO figures, while the large Triceratops is shown as the most popular of the very large figures. I'm not suggesting a list on Everything Dinosaur showing the models ordered by popularity is the perfect list of how popular each figure is compared to others, but it does seem to show which figures are more/less popular on ED at least, and I think it does give some idea of which were better sellers.  That large Tyrannosaurus and Lufengosaurus being the least popular of their series also perfectly reflects the general sentiment I've seen on this forum.

But one thing that is always overlooked is that for each tyrannosaur rex CollectA released , they have countered it by also released one of it's relative. If you look at it, for each rex they released, there is a different species of tyrannosaurus that goes with it, so its 50/50 at this point. I can't think of another company that has done this to date.

CollectA hasn't released a different species of tyrannosauroid along with their T. rex in 2018, 2012, 2008 and 2006.  They only did this in 2016, 2015 and 2014.  I don't know if a matching number can be achieved by using other tyrannosauroids CollectA has released in other years.

[suspsy]

Maybe most of the time, but I doubt they will always sell better if high-end lines are included.  The example of a high-end line I'm going to use is PNSO.  Out of their line with the very large figures, the impression I got was that the T. rex was one of the least popular figures.  Here's a link to Everything Dinosaur's PNSO section, with the figures listed in order of popularity: https://www.everythingdinosaur.com/product-category/models-and-inflatables/pnso-age-of-dinosaurs/?product_orderby=popularity&product_count=48
That large T. rex is shown as the second least popular of the very large models, with only the Lufengosaurus being less popular.  This large T. rex is joined by Wilson and Doyle as among the least popular of the non-mini PNSO figures, while the large Triceratops is shown as the most popular of the very large figures. I'm not suggesting a list on Everything Dinosaur showing the models ordered by popularity is the perfect list of how popular each figure is compared to others, but it does seem to show which figures are more/less popular on ED at least, and I think it does give some idea of which were better sellers.

There are a few flaws in your argument. For one thing, PNSO lasted for less than two years before it imploded, so it's really not a reliable measure for determining the popularity of any dinosaur product. For another, Wilson's got the heftiest price tag of any item listed on that page, which is probably a major factor for a great many collectors. The first dozen items on that popularity list are easily affordable miniatures. And third, if we look at other company pages on the ED website, such as REBOR and Safari, we find that T. rex is one of the most popular items:

https://www.everythingdinosaur.com/product-category/models-and-inflatables/wild-safari-prehistoric-world/?product_orderby=popularity

https://www.everythingdinosaur.com/product-category/models-and-inflatables/rebor-dinosaurs-and-prehistoric-animal-models/?product_orderby=popularity

That large Tyrannosaurus and Lufengosaurus being the least popular of their series also perfectly reflects the general sentiment I've seen on this forum.

Really? I haven't seen any such general sentiment on this forum. I've seen people express a desire for a wider variety of dinosaurs, yes, but that doesn't equate to T. rex not remaining popular.

[stargatedalek]

That large Tyrannosaurus and Lufengosaurus being the least popular of their series also perfectly reflects the general sentiment I've seen on this forum.

Really? I haven't seen any such general sentiment on this forum. I've seen people express a desire for a wider variety of dinosaurs, yes, but that doesn't equate to T. rex not remaining popular.

No I think Sim is definitely right there, PNSO Wilson has a few fans here, but it's definitely a vocal minority (or at least minority of the active members). Most people here have generally agreed Wilson is one of PNSO's weakest, price completely aside, and I would absolutely agree with that. The same goes for the Lufengosaurus, which was easily the weakest of the original releases.

However, I think this works against Sims argument that the cliche animals are less likely to become mainstays of a specialty line. The reason neither PNSO Tyrannosaurus sold well is because both were highly disliked, not because the target audience was more focused on buying the sauropods.

A lot of people didn't feel that the first (main?) version was bold enough. It straddled the line with a few feathers but didn't really commit to adding enough to give us a realistic pattern or flow to them, and this turned away people looking for accurate or for fantasy Tyrannosaurus.

Meanwhile Wilson was very definitely a fantasy figure, with an extremely shrink-wrapped, over-textured, and overall very zombie-like appearance. But people had already come to expect PNSO figures that were focusing (whether successfully or not) on being accurate, and so some viewed it almost as a betrayal, especially following the previous Tyrannosaurus that came very close to being something great. And PNSO wasn't exactly on the radar for the kind of audience that would be interested in paying the higher prices for fantasy dinosaurs.

Contrast this to REBOR, who has never faulted in their pursuit of a very specific target audience (for the better or worse of everyone else, given the atmosphere that target audience creates), an audience that they can very easily predict sales for.

Safari isn't a fair comparison, the vast majority of their target audience are children and parents, even through online stores like ED. And their lower price point means that collectors are more likely to purchase a lot of items rather than just a few, which is going to further inflate sales of not just popular species, but of more impressive figures in general. It's safe to say that when Safari makes a larger, more impressive figure, that alone garners it a noteworthy amount of interest regardless of the species.

[Sim]

There are a few flaws in your argument. For one thing, PNSO lasted for less than two years before it imploded, so it's really not a reliable measure for determining the popularity of any dinosaur product. For another, Wilson's got the heftiest price tag of any item listed on that page, which is probably a major factor for a great many collectors. The first dozen items on that popularity list are easily affordable miniatures.

The mini PNSO figures don't affect what I said, I specified in my post I was considering the popularity of the non-mini PNSO figures.  How long PNSO lasted doesn't change which of their products have been more popular.  As for Wilson being the most expensive on that page, it isn't a lot more expensive than the Huanghetitan.  Additonally, Doyle is in the same line as Wilson, and is less expensive than the Huanghetitan and has the same price as the Chungkingosaurus yet is lower in popularity than these last two figures even though they represent obscure species while Doyle is a Triceratops.

And third, if we look at other company pages on the ED website, such as REBOR and Safari, we find that T. rex is one of the most popular items:

https://www.everythingdinosaur.com/product-category/models-and-inflatables/wild-safari-prehistoric-world/?product_orderby=popularity

https://www.everythingdinosaur.com/product-category/models-and-inflatables/rebor-dinosaurs-and-prehistoric-animal-models/?product_orderby=popularity

This isn't inconsistent with anything I said.  You said, "These animals will always sell better than other species", and I said that might be true most of the time, but I doubt it will be true all the time if high-end lines are included.  Safari isn't a high-end line.  In case it isn't clear, I was saying it might be true most of the time in high-end lines, so if T. rex is one of the most popular figures in most but not all (e.g. PNSO) high-end lines, that's what I was saying might be the case.

That large Tyrannosaurus and Lufengosaurus being the least popular of their series also perfectly reflects the general sentiment I've seen on this forum.

Really? I haven't seen any such general sentiment on this forum. I've seen people express a desire for a wider variety of dinosaurs, yes, but that doesn't equate to T. rex not remaining popular.

I wasn't saying anything about T. rex losing popularity.  I was simply saying that on this forum that large PNSO T. rex and Lufengosaurus seemed to be the least liked figures in that large model series by PNSO.


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The Safari figures listed by popularity on Everything Dinosaur is interesting.  I'm happy to see the 2017 Velociraptor, Microraptor and Coelophysis are so high.  I hope their popularity will allow the Wild Safari line to have more nice dromaeosaurid representation, and interesting Triassic stuff like Plateosaurus and Herrerasaurus.  That Postosuchus that surprised people with its popularity in the top 10 Wild Safari figures poll is high on the popularity list too.  Among the Wild Safari figures lowest in popularity is the 2011 T. rex.  Though the Wild Safari figure shown as having the most popularity is the 2017 T. rex.