PNSO—New for 2020

[Bread]

This discussion about poses is certainly a weird one.

Are we now advocating for every dinosaur figure being stuck in a boring, static, neutral standing pose? And any deviation from this will be considered an area of criticism, even if the actual animal could display such a position?

That's what I was thinking. I don't expect an artist/sculptor to go straight for a neutral standing pose. I want them to stray away from neutral poses.

My whole thing is, if it does not stand, people complain. If it does stand on its own two feet without any tripod factors (arm support or tail support) people will still complain because of the body's shape in order to make it stable. Yes, there is a clear plastic rod being thrown in for future stability, which to me is no big deal. But I am not complaining since we finally have a more up to date rex instead of the constant JP styles, no hate towards those, I still hold a soft spot for that movie.

[Carnoking]

I will say that I too prefer the more dynamic poses (within reason, none of that rearing papo stuff), but it is interesting to have these conversations suggesting different ideas, as they often introduce me to topics and facts I had not considered.
Now, after learning a little bit more about the perceived default stance of Tyrannosaurus rex, my love for the new Wilson has not faded in the slightest, but it is good to know none the less.

[Stegotyranno420]

I will say that I too prefer the more dynamic poses (within reason, none of that rearing papo stuff), but it is interesting to have these conversations suggesting different ideas, as they often introduce me to topics and facts I had not considered.
Now, after learning a little bit more about the perceived default stance of Tyrannosaurus rex, my love for the new Wilson has not faded in the slightest, but it is good to know none the less.

I mean, papo does have some good poses, IMHO the Dimetrodon, Running Rex, Feather Velo, Acro, and of course the 2019 Spinosaurus (I'm really sorry if I talk about that thing too much)

[Carnoking]

Oh yes, Papo has a lot of poses I would say are viable options, and enjoyable to look at, but there is a point where it's too much.

[Stegotyranno420]

Oh yes, Papo has a lot of poses I would say are viable options, and enjoyable to look at, but there is a point where it's too much.

Yeah, the giganoto, the cryolophosaurus, the dilophosaurus, etc

[Leyster]

planked posture

Sorry, why are you criticizing the posture?

The planked fully leaning over forwards posture we see in theropod reconstructions was popularized in the 1990's by depictions designed to make dinosaurs look hyperactive, as if they were constantly stalking or chasing prey. In reality this would not have been a comfortable posture for the animal, as theropods are built to balance while standing somewhat upright.

Not constantly, but at some point they DO have to hunt and chase prey. This is a dynamic figure, nothing wrong with its posture. There is no single posture a theropod holds constantly over 24 hours in a day. Consider it capturing one moment in time.

While this is true, that most reconstructions are done in this leaning forwards pose furthers the idea that this is the animals natural posture. It's like if all depictions of humans were of us holding a bow, yes it's a pose we can do, but not particularly often and it doesn't represent our traditional range of movement let alone a comfortable position. It's about how frequent the pose is so as to actively misrepresent the animal, not it being impossible or even implausible.

The planked fully leaning over forwards posture we see in theropod reconstructions was popularized in the 1990's by depictions designed to make dinosaurs look hyperactive, as if they were constantly stalking or chasing prey. In reality this would not have been a comfortable posture for the animal, as theropods are built to balance while standing somewhat upright.

In addition to what B @bmathison1972 said, this isn't known to be true @stargatedalek.  See my post here for more info: http://dinotoyblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=383.msg110983#msg110983

Could =/= did. Humans balance better while crouching, but again that's also not our natural posture. Just because a theropod could balance while stretched out horizontally based on the mass of its tail doesn't mean that was the animals posture. Ever since we first started to depict theropods as free standing animals it was clear from the shape of the legs and hips that the animals held themselves in a diagonal posture, or at the very least that this was their ancestral state.

Cassowary at rest typically hold themselves slightly more upright than that skeletal shows, leaning over while moving because they constantly scan the forest floor for food. This is also the case for the other large ratites, which all feed in the same manner.

An upright leaning posture is the default, and animals that hold themselves in other poses are going to display specific adaptations to enable this. Ratites have their long necks for reaching close to the ground, but Tyrannosaurus shows no such connection to suggest it would have deviated from the comfortable posture. If anything we have evidence of the opposite, that Tyrannosaurus would have actively benefited from every bit of height it could get. Tyrannosaurus had binocular vision and relied heavily on eyesight in hunting, birds with binocular vision often show adaptation to maximize any height they can, cranes and falcons in particular hold themselves more upright than their immediate relatives and often have longer necks.

Sorry, @stargatedalek, but I think you're wrong. There are studies showing that birds aren't exactly the best model to theropod locomotion, since theu basically rearranged the whole caudofemoral region with the loss of the tail, that in almost all theropods is long and quite heavy, being where the caudofemoral muscle (the biggest muscle in extant reptiles) anchors. Bird shifted from hip-driven to knee-driven locomotion when they lost their tail. Here (https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0088458) is a study showing what happens to the posture of a chicken when added a prosthetic tail that shifts it's center of mass backward, thus resembling more the condition of theropods.

If you're referring to studies like this (http://www.app.pan.pl/archive/published/app28/app28-251.pdf)... well, I'm afraid but it's terribly outdated.

[stargatedalek]

Sorry, @stargatedalek, but I think you're wrong. There are studies showing that birds aren't exactly the best model to theropod locomotion, since theu basically rearranged the whole caudofemoral region with the loss of the tail, that in almost all theropods is long and quite heavy, being where the caudofemoral muscle (the biggest muscle in extant reptiles) anchors. Bird shifted from hip-driven to knee-driven locomotion when they lost their tail. Here (https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0088458) is a study showing what happens to the posture of a chicken when added a prosthetic tail that shifts it's center of mass backward, thus resembling more the condition of theropods.

If you're referring to studies like this (http://www.app.pan.pl/archive/published/app28/app28-251.pdf)... well, I'm afraid but it's terribly outdated.

Actually, that study supports upright posture rather well. The chickens did not lean their bodies forwards, changing only the position of their legs but still holding their body in the same position.

[Sim]

You really gave up reading there?

No, I read the whole of your post.  Regarding the indented gastralia, that's actually part of natural functions of the animal, including the breathing cycle.  This is explained by Jaime Headden here: https://qilong.wordpress.com/dinosaur-bellies-infographic/

[Leyster]

Sorry, @stargatedalek, but I think you're wrong. There are studies showing that birds aren't exactly the best model to theropod locomotion, since theu basically rearranged the whole caudofemoral region with the loss of the tail, that in almost all theropods is long and quite heavy, being where the caudofemoral muscle (the biggest muscle in extant reptiles) anchors. Bird shifted from hip-driven to knee-driven locomotion when they lost their tail. Here (https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0088458) is a study showing what happens to the posture of a chicken when added a prosthetic tail that shifts it's center of mass backward, thus resembling more the condition of theropods.

If you're referring to studies like this (http://www.app.pan.pl/archive/published/app28/app28-251.pdf)... well, I'm afraid but it's terribly outdated.

Actually, that study supports upright posture rather well. The chickens did not lean their bodies forwards, changing only the position of their legs but still holding their body in the same position.

I do not agree with your conclusions. See also here: https://peerj.com/articles/5777/: femur orientation in Daspletosaurus is almost vertical (way more vertical than even in the largest living birds) and even the small troodontid keeps his leg straighter than birds. Birds rearranged their femural posture because of the loss of the tail, but theropods did not have such adaptations. It can be inferred that some (eg. therizinosaurids) kept a more upright posture, but "core theropods" lack those adaptations.  Also studies on the semicircular canals show a nearly horizontal body (and head, in this particolar case) posture: https://app.pan.pl/archive/published/app50/app50-601.pdf

[terrorchicken]

Oh yes, Papo has a lot of poses I would say are viable options, and enjoyable to look at, but there is a point where it's too much.

Yeah, the giganoto, the cryolophosaurus, the dilophosaurus, etc

I actually think the upright stance works really well on cryolopho. Like it got spooked by something and its jumping back. Or its in the middle of a fight with another smaller dino. OTOH they totally bothched  that similar stance on the giganto. It doesn't look natural on that  figure at all. (I think I already mentioned this in a previous thread but just thought like sharing it again)

But yeah Papo does need to cut back on some of these dynamic poses. Its getting to be a bit overdone.

[stargatedalek]

Ceratosaurus is a highly derived theropod with specialized compact proportions and a short neck, about as far from the "core" theropod body plan as you can get. All that shows is that posture is going to vary based on the anatomy and behaviour of a given animal.

[Remko]

Oh yes, Papo has a lot of poses I would say are viable options, and enjoyable to look at, but there is a point where it's too much.

Yeah, the giganoto, the cryolophosaurus, the dilophosaurus, etc

I actually think the upright stance works really well on cryolopho. Like it got spooked by something and its jumping back. Or its in the middle of a fight with another smaller dino. OTOH they totally bothched  that similar stance on the giganto. It doesn't look natural on that  figure at all. (I think I already mentioned this in a previous thread but just thought like sharing it again)

But yeah Papo does need to cut back on some of these dynamic poses. Its getting to be a bit overdone.

The Dilophosaurus by Papo is the most believable. The Cryolophosaurus and especially their Giganotosaurus are modeled in completely impossible poses.
They are, after all, Tetanurans, literally meaning "stiff tails". The long tails weren't just for show, they were needed to counterbalance the animal when walking. They could not move in ways as shown on the figures.
Jurassic World 2 had this wrong with Raptor Blue as well, but then again, the Jurassic Park/World movies long ago stopped caring for any form of scientifically accuracy...

[Over9K]

So where's this week's drop?

[Shonisaurus]

So where's this week's drop?

I am interested in all the dinosaurs that PNSO makes, they are all very scientific and very well sculpted, but sincerely I would like them to reveal the torosaurus next week I need it to far exceed in size and quality the exceptional torosaurus of WWD.

[SenSx]

I would like the long awaited Parasaurolophus or Pachycephalosaurus.

[Leyster]

Ceratosaurus is a highly derived theropod with specialized compact proportions and a short neck, about as far from the "core" theropod body plan as you can get. All that shows is that posture is going to vary based on the anatomy and behaviour of a given animal.

Ok, so I even asked an actual paleontologist, Andrea Cau, that confirmed that some therods shows adaptation for a more upright posture, like the aforementioned therizinosaurids. He reconstructed as such Halszkaraptor (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7047864/pdf/peerj-08-8672.pdf) and he proposed a more upright posture in Spinosaurus (https://theropoda.blogspot.com/2014/09/spinosaurus-revolution-episodio-iv-una.html), so you cannot possibly say he is against an upright posture in some genera. But here is the restoration of Saltriovenator (basically the closest thing we have to the split between Tetanurae and Ceratosauria, to anwser to your critic to Carnotaurus), and, as you can see, the back is horizontal.


Your opinion is yours alone, and of course you're allowed tothink whatever you want about dinosaurs, but I don't think it's really correct that you spread such opinion as it was a matter of fact. Of course you're allowed to do a biomechanical test, get your conclusions and submit it to peer review. But until a recent, peer reviewed study will show that theropods walked upright, the horizontal posture for most core theropods is what is accepted by the great majority of paleontologists.

[Remko]

I just received Rosana the Miragaia and Isaac the Sauropelta.

As usual, the craftmanship of the sculpts is fantastic, and espcially the colour of the Miragaia is beautiful.

I am a bit disappointed with the Sauropelta however. It's so small, barely larger than his Safari cousin. I would have expected a figure at least about the bulk of the Borealopelta.

[Gothmog the Baryonyx]

I just received Rosana the Miragaia and Isaac the Sauropelta.

As usual, the craftmanship of the sculpts is fantastic, and espcially the colour of the Miragaia is beautiful.

I am a bit disappointed with the Sauropelta however. It's so small, barely larger than his Safari cousin. I would have expected a figure at least about the bulk of the Borealopelta.

oh that's disappointingly large. I was hoping the PNSO Sauropelta was much smaller than the Safari. If it is indeed a little larger that's much too big, I will have to pass on that one.

[Shonisaurus]

I just received Rosana the Miragaia and Isaac the Sauropelta.

As usual, the craftmanship of the sculpts is fantastic, and espcially the colour of the Miragaia is beautiful.

I am a bit disappointed with the Sauropelta however. It's so small, barely larger than his Safari cousin. I would have expected a figure at least about the bulk of the Borealopelta.

oh that's disappointingly large. I was hoping the PNSO Sauropelta was much smaller than the Safari. If it is indeed a little larger that's much too big, I will have to pass on that one.

R @Remko I totally agree with you regarding the PNSO sauropelta it is sculpturally beautiful but very small. I do like the range of paint that they have put on the sauropelta. For my part it is the last dinosaur that I received and bought last year. On the other hand, according to what has been said, it is equal in size to its Safari counterpart.

@Gothmog the Baryonyx If you want a smaller scale of the sauropelta I advise you not to buy on the other hand it is not large, for me it is even small but the details of painting and sculpture are unbeatable.

[JohannesB]

It's really good, certainly among the best Tyrannosaurus figures ever made and a vast improvement over the other Wilson. Is it $70 good though? I'm still not sure. They clearly made this figure to appeal to collectors that prioritize accuracy but they didn't check off all the boxes. The scales and lack of lips bother me and I can't ignore that fact. These things are generally nothing I would get hung up about if it were maybe $40-50 but if I'm shelling out $70 for the definitive T. rex I'm just not sure that I'm picking this one. I'm right on the edge though, I fully acknowledge that it's a fantastic piece.

While I'm quite excited about this sculpt eventually reaching my door, "definitive" T. rex may remain an elusive acquisition. I'm one of those (maybe a minority) who would like to see what Eofauna could come up with in this respect.

That. And that.

I bought it on an impulse, and I think I'll be quite happy, but some things bother me (but not too much), like the price, the scales being far too big for this scale (no pun intended), and maybe the lack of lips (but not really).