PNSO: New For 2021

[terrorchicken]

Im already on the regular HH email list but I dont recall getting any discount/coupons just the regular "so and so brand is on sale this week" announcements.  Is there a separate list for the coupon/discount offers?

[Psittacoraptor]

@stargatedalek  The prices of Lana Time Shop & sellers on Aliexpress are the same as U.S. prices. If you're talking about domestic sales in China, I have no idea. However, different prices in different markets are the norm, due to differences in taxes, currency, duties, transportation costs or tariffs. How would having different prices in the home market vs an export market be illegal, and what authority would be able to judge this across different jurisdictions?

[stargatedalek]

@stargatedalek  The prices of Lana Time Shop & sellers on Aliexpress are the same as U.S. prices. If you're talking about domestic sales in China, I have no idea. However, different prices in different markets are the norm, due to differences in taxes, currency, duties, transportation costs or tariffs. How would having different prices in the home market vs an export market be illegal, and what authority would be able to judge this across different jurisdictions?

It's illegal to give different sellers different MAP prices. And if those fell along national lines, it would be biased price fixing. That's different from foreign prices being higher due to outside costs like shipping fees.

However, I was apparently mistaken in the prices of Chinese sellers being cheaper? I thought that was what people were saying that some figures cost $36 on Aliexpress versus $60 on Amazon?

[Psittacoraptor]

@stargatedalek Each country/market has its own laws and regulations. What court has the authority to rule pricing illegal between two different countries on two continents (Aliexpress is based in China)? Not trying to argue, I'm genuinely ignorant in this regard.

But yes, Aliexpress/Lanatime prices are the same as Amazon and others ever since PNSO opened their own store, discounts are gone across the board (sadly).

[Flaffy]

However, I was apparently mistaken in the prices of Chinese sellers being cheaper? I thought that was what people were saying that some figures cost $36 on Aliexpress versus $60 on Amazon?

Not sure about Alexipress, but PNSO figure prices on mainland Chinese sites like Taobao and co. are all lower than prices seen on Amazon.

[stargatedalek]

@stargatedalek Each country/market has its own laws and regulations. What court has the authority to rule pricing illegal between two different countries on two continents (Aliexpress is based in China)? Not trying to argue, I'm genuinely ignorant in this regard.

But yes, Aliexpress/Lanatime prices are the same as Amazon and others ever since PNSO opened their own store, discounts are gone across the board (sadly).

They are only able to enforce MAP prices based on US law, and so, when selling to US retailers they must act within those laws. Forcing US retailers to apply to restrictions they don't place on Chinese retailers breaks US law, and they could loose a suite if charged in US court as they sell directly to US retailers.

[Psittacoraptor]

@stargatedalek Each country/market has its own laws and regulations. What court has the authority to rule pricing illegal between two different countries on two continents (Aliexpress is based in China)? Not trying to argue, I'm genuinely ignorant in this regard.

But yes, Aliexpress/Lanatime prices are the same as Amazon and others ever since PNSO opened their own store, discounts are gone across the board (sadly).

They are only able to enforce MAP prices based on US law, and so, when selling to US retailers they must act within those laws. Forcing US retailers to apply to restrictions they don't place on Chinese retailers breaks US law, and they could loose a suite if charged in US court as they sell directly to US retailers.

How? Different countries, different laws, different jurisdictions. MAPs are not legal in many EU countries, if what you said were true any company that sells products in those countries without MAPs would be committing a crime by setting MAPs in the US. And how could the MAPs be the same in the U.S. when it is an export market with additional costs involved? This somehow sounds like an imperialist economic wet dream and I find it hard to believe. Unless, I'm misunderstanding something, which could very well be the case

[JohannesB]

I just ordered the PNSO Corythosaurus. In this video (in German, but I guess you'll get the point when watching) the reviewer got a rather bad figure with all kinds of fails, most having to do with bad molding of the plastic, like loss of definition (feet; all over the body) and creases in the plastic, as well as bad paint apps. I understand that the promotional pictures show a hand painted figure, and the brown patterning on the actual mass-produced model is applied mechanically, with hasty touches of airbrush, so of course there would be a difference in the way the actual model would look, but still, the end result is rather sloppy. I am a bit puzzled, because the Triceratops and Iguanodon are so very nice, and near perfect in that respect. Sure, the Triceratops has a bit detail loss at certain spots, but nothing as bad as on the Corythosaurus. Maybe PNSO learned from their mistakes on this figure, and applied more care on the figures that followed, I don't know. Or maybe the price point of the Corythosaurus did not warrant a careful (and thus slower and more expensive) mold and paint app.

All this does not really make it a bad figure, on the contrary, but it is such a shame that a stellar figure like this got such a bad treatment. I might repaint it :-)

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vgycz418YS8

[stargatedalek]

@stargatedalek Each country/market has its own laws and regulations. What court has the authority to rule pricing illegal between two different countries on two continents (Aliexpress is based in China)? Not trying to argue, I'm genuinely ignorant in this regard.

But yes, Aliexpress/Lanatime prices are the same as Amazon and others ever since PNSO opened their own store, discounts are gone across the board (sadly).

They are only able to enforce MAP prices based on US law, and so, when selling to US retailers they must act within those laws. Forcing US retailers to apply to restrictions they don't place on Chinese retailers breaks US law, and they could loose a suite if charged in US court as they sell directly to US retailers.

How? Different countries, different laws, different jurisdictions. MAPs are not legal in many EU countries, if what you said were true any company that sells products in those countries without MAPs would be committing a crime by setting MAPs in the US. And how could the MAPs be the same in the U.S. when it is an export market with additional costs involved? This somehow sounds like an imperialist economic wet dream and I find it hard to believe. Unless, I'm misunderstanding something, which could very well be the case

You can't order people in some countries to charge more, and not others. This is a bigger thing with cars for example. A US based car manufacturer can't have a different MAP for the US versus Canada, Canadian companies will charge slightly more to cover their import and shipping costs, but those are not dictated by the manufacturer. To do so is illegal.

Just because something is illegal doesn't mean anything would be done about it. Cars are a great example because most likely something would be done about it if a company tried to pull that nonsense, Canada would ban import of that company for example until they complied. PNSO has nothing to worry about, but that doesn't make what they're doing legal.

When you sell something within a territory, you are beholden to the laws of that territory. This is why region specific wholesalers exist, which manufacturers normally sell to rather than selling directly to retailers.

[Antey]

@stargatedalek Each country/market has its own laws and regulations. What court has the authority to rule pricing illegal between two different countries on two continents (Aliexpress is based in China)? Not trying to argue, I'm genuinely ignorant in this regard.

But yes, Aliexpress/Lanatime prices are the same as Amazon and others ever since PNSO opened their own store, discounts are gone across the board (sadly).

They are only able to enforce MAP prices based on US law, and so, when selling to US retailers they must act within those laws. Forcing US retailers to apply to restrictions they don't place on Chinese retailers breaks US law, and they could loose a suite if charged in US court as they sell directly to US retailers.

How? Different countries, different laws, different jurisdictions. MAPs are not legal in many EU countries, if what you said were true any company that sells products in those countries without MAPs would be committing a crime by setting MAPs in the US. And how could the MAPs be the same in the U.S. when it is an export market with additional costs involved? This somehow sounds like an imperialist economic wet dream and I find it hard to believe. Unless, I'm misunderstanding something, which could very well be the case

You can't order people in some countries to charge more, and not others. This is a bigger thing with cars for example. A US based car manufacturer can't have a different MAP for the US versus Canada, Canadian companies will charge slightly more to cover their import and shipping costs, but those are not dictated by the manufacturer. To do so is illegal.

Just because something is illegal doesn't mean anything would be done about it. Cars are a great example because most likely something would be done about it if a company tried to pull that nonsense, Canada would ban import of that company for example until they complied. PNSO has nothing to worry about, but that doesn't make what they're doing legal.

When you sell something within a territory, you are beholden to the laws of that territory. This is why region specific wholesalers exist, which manufacturers normally sell to rather than selling directly to retailers.

You contradict yourself. First, you write that you are dissatisfied with the uniform prices that PNSO dictates for sellers in the United States, and then you demand the same prices that exist in China. These are different markets. PNSO does not differentiate between different vendors within the same legal area. But what right does the United States have to demand that prices in another country be pegged to American prices? This practice of imposing its will on the rest of the world is called imperialism, as rightly noted above.

[Faras]

You can't order people in some countries to charge more, and not others. This is a bigger thing with cars for example. A US based car manufacturer can't have a different MAP for the US versus Canada, Canadian companies will charge slightly more to cover their import and shipping costs, but those are not dictated by the manufacturer. To do so is illegal.

Hmm doubt it's illegal as lots of US manufacturers set MAPs in China much higher than US prices plus extra taxes (most stuffs are produced in China or Southeast Asia so shipping costs should be minimal). Buyers in China can often achieve lower prices by buying from US/EU retailers and paying international shipping and custom taxes.

However, I was apparently mistaken in the prices of Chinese sellers being cheaper? I thought that was what people were saying that some figures cost $36 on Aliexpress versus $60 on Amazon?

Aliexpress targets international markets, so retailers are regulated under same price fixing as Amazon. For mainland market we use Taobao, Alibaba, Jingdong, Pinduoduo etc, and yes MAPs exist (usually different from global ones).

[Duck]

@stargatedalek Each country/market has its own laws and regulations. What court has the authority to rule pricing illegal between two different countries on two continents (Aliexpress is based in China)? Not trying to argue, I'm genuinely ignorant in this regard.

But yes, Aliexpress/Lanatime prices are the same as Amazon and others ever since PNSO opened their own store, discounts are gone across the board (sadly).

They are only able to enforce MAP prices based on US law, and so, when selling to US retailers they must act within those laws. Forcing US retailers to apply to restrictions they don't place on Chinese retailers breaks US law, and they could loose a suite if charged in US court as they sell directly to US retailers.

How? Different countries, different laws, different jurisdictions. MAPs are not legal in many EU countries, if what you said were true any company that sells products in those countries without MAPs would be committing a crime by setting MAPs in the US. And how could the MAPs be the same in the U.S. when it is an export market with additional costs involved? This somehow sounds like an imperialist economic wet dream and I find it hard to believe. Unless, I'm misunderstanding something, which could very well be the case

You can't order people in some countries to charge more, and not others. This is a bigger thing with cars for example. A US based car manufacturer can't have a different MAP for the US versus Canada, Canadian companies will charge slightly more to cover their import and shipping costs, but those are not dictated by the manufacturer. To do so is illegal.

Just because something is illegal doesn't mean anything would be done about it. Cars are a great example because most likely something would be done about it if a company tried to pull that nonsense, Canada would ban import of that company for example until they complied. PNSO has nothing to worry about, but that doesn't make what they're doing legal.

When you sell something within a territory, you are beholden to the laws of that territory. This is why region specific wholesalers exist, which manufacturers normally sell to rather than selling directly to retailers.

You contradict yourself. First, you write that you are dissatisfied with the uniform prices that PNSO dictates for sellers in the United States, and then you demand the same prices that exist in China. These are different markets. PNSO does not differentiate between different vendors within the same legal area. But what right does the United States have to demand that prices in another country be pegged to American prices? This practice of imposing its will on the rest of the world is called imperialism, as rightly noted above.

Deleted by me

[Psittacoraptor]

How? Different countries, different laws, different jurisdictions. MAPs are not legal in many EU countries, if what you said were true any company that sells products in those countries without MAPs would be committing a crime by setting MAPs in the US. And how could the MAPs be the same in the U.S. when it is an export market with additional costs involved? This somehow sounds like an imperialist economic wet dream and I find it hard to believe. Unless, I'm misunderstanding something, which could very well be the case

You can't order people in some countries to charge more, and not others. This is a bigger thing with cars for example. A US based car manufacturer can't have a different MAP for the US versus Canada, Canadian companies will charge slightly more to cover their import and shipping costs, but those are not dictated by the manufacturer. To do so is illegal.

Just because something is illegal doesn't mean anything would be done about it. Cars are a great example because most likely something would be done about it if a company tried to pull that nonsense, Canada would ban import of that company for example until they complied. PNSO has nothing to worry about, but that doesn't make what they're doing legal.

When you sell something within a territory, you are beholden to the laws of that territory. This is why region specific wholesalers exist, which manufacturers normally sell to rather than selling directly to retailers.

I'm sorry, but I'm still not following. You keep saying illegal. Who decides this? What legal authority can rule that MAPs should be the same in two countries? Legality is tied to jurisdiction (in this case the territory/market), as different jurisdictions have different laws, and those end where the jurisdiction ends. And even if what you claim was true, it still wouldn't make any sense in practice because many countries, including most of Europe, don't allow MAPs in the first place.

[Antey]

https://youtu.be/7ndcl0n12OA

[Antey]

After watching this video, I decided my Triceratops would be Doyle # 2. Zhao convinced.

[stargatedalek]

How? Different countries, different laws, different jurisdictions. MAPs are not legal in many EU countries, if what you said were true any company that sells products in those countries without MAPs would be committing a crime by setting MAPs in the US. And how could the MAPs be the same in the U.S. when it is an export market with additional costs involved? This somehow sounds like an imperialist economic wet dream and I find it hard to believe. Unless, I'm misunderstanding something, which could very well be the case

You can't order people in some countries to charge more, and not others. This is a bigger thing with cars for example. A US based car manufacturer can't have a different MAP for the US versus Canada, Canadian companies will charge slightly more to cover their import and shipping costs, but those are not dictated by the manufacturer. To do so is illegal.

Just because something is illegal doesn't mean anything would be done about it. Cars are a great example because most likely something would be done about it if a company tried to pull that nonsense, Canada would ban import of that company for example until they complied. PNSO has nothing to worry about, but that doesn't make what they're doing legal.

When you sell something within a territory, you are beholden to the laws of that territory. This is why region specific wholesalers exist, which manufacturers normally sell to rather than selling directly to retailers.

I'm sorry, but I'm still not following. You keep saying illegal. Who decides this? What legal authority can rule that MAPs should be the same in two countries? Legality is tied to jurisdiction (in this case the territory/market), as different jurisdictions have different laws, and those end where the jurisdiction ends. And even if what you claim was true, it still wouldn't make any sense in practice because many countries, including most of Europe, don't allow MAPs in the first place.

Again, this is why wholesale companies exist.

PNSO can't dictate MAPs in some territories and not others, but they can just sell to a wholesaler for each territory, and then that wholesaler gets to set region specific prices. The same entity can't sell something for more in some areas, as this violates laws in a lot of countries*, but most companies just bypass this completely by selling to regional wholesalers instead of directly to retailers.

If a wholesaler is US specific, or Canada specific, they can charge whatever different prices they want, as long as PNSO/CollectA/Safari/Toyota/GM/Boeing all charge that wholesaler the same price as the other wholesaler before shipping and import.

Most companies that sell internationally do this, MAPs are dictated by wholesalers, or the wholesalers otherwise adjust the cost as they see fit. It's only illegal if the same singular entity is directly selling products themselves, and choosing to charge more in some territories than others, as this is considered discriminatory and nationalistic.

*Again, just because it's illegal, doesn't mean anything would ever be done about it. It would be weird if the US didn't have these laws because Canada does, though they are very selectively enforced.

You contradict yourself. First, you write that you are dissatisfied with the uniform prices that PNSO dictates for sellers in the United States, and then you demand the same prices that exist in China. These are different markets. PNSO does not differentiate between different vendors within the same legal area. But what right does the United States have to demand that prices in another country be pegged to American prices? This practice of imposing its will on the rest of the world is called imperialism, as rightly noted above.

I don't recall ever saying that I was dissatisfied by prices being uniform, other people said that. I said that it's unethical to charge some regions more than others, as, again, this is discriminatory.

Here in Canada we have laws to prevent other countries from pushing our businesses around and incentivising customers to order abroad. Cars are the most commonly enforced example, but also consumer electronics like cellphones and cameras. Car manufacturers in the US, used to deliberately overcharge Canadian businesses so that Canadians would travel to the US and buy cars there. Electronics companies sometimes try to do the same.

GM can't charge Canadian businesses more for cars than they charge US businesses, otherwise they violate Canadian law and are penalized by being banned from import entirely. Protectionism maybe, but that's far from imperialism.

Imperialism would be the Canadian government saying GM can't charge more for their cars than Canadian car manufacturers. But no one is advocating for that. PNSO should be able to charge whatever they want, but that price should be across the board. They are breaking laws if they, directly, are charging more in some regions than in others.

[Psittacoraptor]

@stargatedalek Usually, I agree with a lot of what you write here, but in this case, I remain unconvinced, so it might be best to drop it at this point.

You keep dodging the question of jurisdiction and legal authority. This discussion started with you saying it would be illegal for PNSO to set a lower price in China than in the US. My basic question to this was "Says who?". This question remains unanswered, and I still don't know who this nebulous legal entity is supposed to be.

I find the concept of forcing a company to charge the same prices in two very different markets imperialistic and highly ethically questionable. It ignores reality in so many ways, including the different costs associated with selling goods in different territories, and on the customer side, aspects like the vast inequalities in income and living expenses in different countries and regions. Perhaps I am missing something here, but the premise seems very problematic to me.

[stargatedalek]

@stargatedalek Usually, I agree with a lot of what you write here, but in this case, I remain unconvinced, so it might be best to drop it at this point.

You keep dodging the question of jurisdiction and legal authority. This discussion started with you saying it would be illegal for PNSO to set a lower price in China than in the US. My basic question to this was "Says who?". This question remains unanswered, and I still don't know who this nebulous legal entity is supposed to be.

I find the concept of forcing a company to charge the same prices in two very different markets imperialistic and highly ethically questionable. It ignores reality in so many ways, including the different costs associated with selling goods in different territories, and on the customer side, aspects like the vast inequalities in income and living expenses in different countries and regions. Perhaps I am missing something here, but the premise seems very problematic to me.

Again, the country where a good is being sold has that jurisdiction. General Motors can't charge a US based car dealership $3000 for a car, and charge Canadian car dealerships $4000 (assuming those prices are in the same currency). There is no nebulous global entity that demands that, Canada does, as they are the ones being overcharged. Canada can't force GM to change their prices, but they can ban import of GM cars if GM doesn't change that policy to comply with Canadian law.

A territory has legal jurisdiction over products sold within its territory. Even if the most they could do is attempt to ban importation.

That doesn't mean it will be the same price at the Canadian car dealership, it probably won't be. That dealership is going to have to pay shipping and importing costs on that car and so it will cost more for the consumer. That might be where the confusion is coming from, retailers can charge more if they want to (or need to, to cover additional costs not levied by the manufacturer), the problem comes from charging different retailers different prices for the same items.

Costs for consumers are obviously going to end up being different in different markets. But that is for retailers and wholesalers to negotiate, a manufacturer is supposed to be charging flat rates for all parties.

*edit*
Are we even sure it's PNSO selling directly that's causing these markups and not a wholesaler? It could be the prices within China are what PNSO charges, and the ones being sold internationally are being bought from them by a wholesaler and being up-charged with their cut.

[Psittacoraptor]

@stargatedalek Thank you for the clarification. I get what you were trying to say now. "Illegal" is a muddy term in this case, though. It would only apply to the US or Canada, and end at the nation's borders. It wouldn't be "illegal" for them to set a lower price in China, as China (and every other country) couldn't care less about what the US or Canada have to say about prices in their country. And I still find using that term in this context absurd and, yes, I'll say it again, imperialistic.

There still remain some holes, such as the reality of different MAPs existing in different markets for many products, or not being legal to begin with. However, I think we should really drop it now, the connection to dinosaur toys is getting thinner by the letter

[Halichoeres]

Congratulations to PNSO for having the most diverse lineup of any company in 2021: http://dinotoyblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=10016.0