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avatar_Halichoeres

New fossil fish Teffichthys madagascariensis

Started by Halichoeres, April 29, 2017, 05:23:31 PM

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Halichoeres

Formerly referred to Perleidus, this really nice actinopterygian fossil from the early Triassic of Madagascar is removed from the Perleidiformes entirely and given a new genus: Teffichthys (T.E.F.F.=Triassic Early Fish Fauna, and "-ichthys" redundantly means "fish").

Paper (open access at least in the United States): http://riviste.unimi.it/index.php/RIPS/article/view/8328

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Ravonium

#1
For how ancient this fish is, the scales are relatively well preserved.

Halichoeres

Quote from: Ravonium on April 29, 2017, 05:30:51 PM
For how ancient this fish is, the scales are relatively well preserved.

That's because early actinopterygians had a lot of dentine in their scales, so they preserve just as well as teeth! Fish are the best, is what I'm saying  :))
In the kingdom of the blind, better take public transit. Well, in the kingdom of the sighted, too, really--almost everyone is a terrible driver.

My attempt to find the best toy of every species

My trade/sale/wishlist thread

Sometimes I draw pictures

Ravonium

Quote from: Halichoeres on April 29, 2017, 05:32:34 PM
That's because early actinopterygians had a lot of dentine in their scales, so they preserve just as well as teeth! Fish are the best, is what I'm saying  :))

It is impossible to say that any other group is better than fish, since they are all technically fish.  ???


Halichoeres

Quote from: Ravonium on April 29, 2017, 05:42:06 PM
Quote from: Halichoeres on April 29, 2017, 05:32:34 PM
That's because early actinopterygians had a lot of dentine in their scales, so they preserve just as well as teeth! Fish are the best, is what I'm saying  :))

It is impossible to say that any other group is better than fish, since they are all technically fish.  ???

Only the vertebrates! And only in the strictest technical sense (I'm okay with colloquial paraphyly, personally). And if I'm being really honest with myself, arthropods are probably cooler than vertebrates.
In the kingdom of the blind, better take public transit. Well, in the kingdom of the sighted, too, really--almost everyone is a terrible driver.

My attempt to find the best toy of every species

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Sometimes I draw pictures

Jose S.M.

I've always noticed how great fishes are preserved but never gave deep thoughts about it. And fishes and arthropods are the coolest for me. Also cephalopods are in top 3 groups.

Ravonium

Quote from: Halichoeres on April 29, 2017, 05:48:43 PM
Only the vertebrates! And only in the strictest technical sense (I'm okay with colloquial paraphyly, personally). And if I'm being really honest with myself, arthropods are probably cooler than vertebrates.

I agree. Not only that, but arthropods are the most sucessful group of animals in the world.

Hynerpeton

Walking With Monsers:
[about Lystrosaurus] Astonishingly, their vast herds make up more than half of all life on Earth. Never again will a single species do so well.

Walking With Monsters: (Hynerpeton) To avoid injury the males demonstrate their strength  in a strange  push up contest.

SBell

Quote from: Halichoeres on April 29, 2017, 05:32:34 PM
Quote from: Ravonium on April 29, 2017, 05:30:51 PM
For how ancient this fish is, the scales are relatively well preserved.

That's because early actinopterygians had a lot of dentine in their scales, so they preserve just as well as teeth! Fish are the best, is what I'm saying  :))

You should have stopped there...arthropods are just food for the fish!

Sometimes...

ZoPteryx

Very neat fossil!  I've always found it interesting how well armored these early actinopterygians were.  I suppose it's a retained ancestral trait, but I can't help but wonder if it was really necessary for them, were there really that many more predators in Triassic swamps and coastlines.


BlueKrono

Quote from: ZoPteryx on April 30, 2017, 05:34:41 AM
Very neat fossil!  I've always found it interesting how well armored these early actinopterygians were.  I suppose it's a retained ancestral trait, but I can't help but wonder if it was really necessary for them, were there really that many more predators in Triassic swamps and coastlines.

I wonder why modern coelacanths retained them too. Many predators that deep?
We are accustomed to look upon the shackled form of a conquered monster, but there - there you could look at a thing monstrous and free." - King Kong, 2005

Hynerpeton

Walking With Monsers:
[about Lystrosaurus] Astonishingly, their vast herds make up more than half of all life on Earth. Never again will a single species do so well.

Walking With Monsters: (Hynerpeton) To avoid injury the males demonstrate their strength  in a strange  push up contest.

Halichoeres

Quote from: BlueKrono on April 30, 2017, 12:43:07 PM
Quote from: ZoPteryx on April 30, 2017, 05:34:41 AM
Very neat fossil!  I've always found it interesting how well armored these early actinopterygians were.  I suppose it's a retained ancestral trait, but I can't help but wonder if it was really necessary for them, were there really that many more predators in Triassic swamps and coastlines.

I wonder why modern coelacanths retained them too. Many predators that deep?
I don't know for sure, but I suppose the way I imagine it is more like, teleosts evolved ways to manufacture offspring cheaper, but in much greater quantities. At the upper extreme, ocean sunfish and cod can release literally millions of eggs per female, which isn't really seen in lungfish, coelacanths, bichirs, holosteans, or, for that matter, sturgeons. The current dominance of teleosts might suggest that it was a pretty good trade. Sure, you're more likely to die in some predator's mouth, but you have hundreds of siblings still swimming around.


Quote from: predino on April 30, 2017, 05:58:10 PM
Maybe a toy will be made. We can  hope.
I hope that for nearly every new fossil fish that is described! I think all the major companies would have to devote themselves to fish for five years straight to catch up with all the dinosaurs.
In the kingdom of the blind, better take public transit. Well, in the kingdom of the sighted, too, really--almost everyone is a terrible driver.

My attempt to find the best toy of every species

My trade/sale/wishlist thread

Sometimes I draw pictures

ZoPteryx

Quote from: Halichoeres on April 30, 2017, 06:39:54 PM
Quote from: BlueKrono on April 30, 2017, 12:43:07 PM
Quote from: ZoPteryx on April 30, 2017, 05:34:41 AM
Very neat fossil!  I've always found it interesting how well armored these early actinopterygians were.  I suppose it's a retained ancestral trait, but I can't help but wonder if it was really necessary for them, were there really that many more predators in Triassic swamps and coastlines.

I wonder why modern coelacanths retained them too. Many predators that deep?
I don't know for sure, but I suppose the way I imagine it is more like, teleosts evolved ways to manufacture offspring cheaper, but in much greater quantities. At the upper extreme, ocean sunfish and cod can release literally millions of eggs per female, which isn't really seen in lungfish, coelacanths, bichirs, holosteans, or, for that matter, sturgeons. The current dominance of teleosts might suggest that it was a pretty good trade. Sure, you're more likely to die in some predator's mouth, but you have hundreds of siblings still swimming around.

Interesting, I'd never thought about within a reproductive context.  Perhaps these early actinops had a similarly low reproductive rate.

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