Best reference for Dunkleosteus color scheme?

[Loon]

Hi all,

I've been thinking of getting my CollectA Dunkleosteus repainted, but am not sure what color scheme and pattern would be most appropriate.

I saw somewhere that lampreys are the closest living relatives to placoderms; I'm not able to confirm that, though. I've also been considering alligator gars. Anyway, let me know what you think!

[Dinoguy2]

Given the lifestyle and environment pelagic sharks seem to be the best option.

Agreed, ecology is a better guide than phylogeny for this kind of thing. Color patterns have immense selective pressures on them so you see lots of convergence among unrelated animals in similar habitats.

If I were designing one, I'd go with a light gray or brown dorsal side and white belly, maybe with some dark and light pattern/highlights around the osteoderms like a sturgeon or barracuda.

I kinda like this model overall, though the white "teeth" look really silly.
were they actually covered in enamel or would they match the plates around the head? https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Dunkleosteus_2016-05-08_089.jpg

[Halichoeres]

May I humbly suggest the mandarin dragonet?

But seriously I think the suggestions above are good. A splash of fairly bright color on a big fish isn't out of the question, although it's less common on these barrel-shaped things and more common on spindle-shaped giants like tunas and billfishes.

[Newt]

Placoderms are closer to humans than to lampreys. That said, they're not very close to anything living, so I wouldn't worry too much about that.


There's no particular rationale for this, but I like the idea of Dunkleosteus being colored somewhat like a Goliath Grouper.


I suppose if you're going to try to reason out it's coloration, you'll need to figure out first if its likely prey items had sufficient visual acuity for the predator's coloration to make much difference to its hunting success. I'm not well-read enough on the topic to make a suggestion there; was it thought to be strictly a piscivore, or did it feed on cephalopods too? I suspect Devonian squid-things had better vision than contemporary fish-things.


Second, was it an open-water hunter or a benthic lurker? Different patterns suit each style of hunting.


Third, did Dunkleosteus use visual cues in its social behavior? That's quite speculative of course. But even cryptic lurkers like Amia may show some nuptial color (in Amia's case, a peculiar phthalo green wash in the hinder parts of the breeding male).

[Loon]

Thanks everyone for the replies. I actually really like the model from the AMNH; it's very close to the idea I had with the alligator gar.

Aside from the fin issue ? @Stolpergeist  mentioned, how well does this figure hold up in terms of accuracy? Also, does anyone have a reference for fins?

[Halichoeres]

Thanks everyone for the replies. I actually really like the model from the AMNH; it's very close to the idea I had with the alligator gar.

Aside from the fin issue Stolpergeist  mentioned, how well does this figure hold up in terms of accuracy? Also, does anyone have a reference for fins?

The CollectA dorsal fin is too conservative, it would have looked more like a shark fin. The scutes/tubercles on the flank are extremely unlikely. The back half of the body is generally a little bit too ice cream cone-shaped; it probably would have had a distinct caudal peduncle (a narrowing in front of the caudal fin).

One thing I like about it is that it does a good job covering the armor plates with skin.

[Loon]

Thanks for the help, @Halichoeres . I didn't know it was that innaccurate. I'll wait for a better version then, though, I don't know who'd make it. Safari and Collecta still have theirs in production, and there aren't many other companies whose take I'd be interested in. Paleozoo's seems to match the description, but it's over $100 shipped to the US.

[Loon]

*whispers*
Faaaaavoooriiiite.

Hmmm... That one's not bad. I completely forgot about. It looks to have the more accurate fins, but the head looks a bit-outdated to me. Is it still thought that the armor would stick out that much?

Also, could someone do a siz comparison with the CollectA Figure and the favorite one for me?

[Loon]

There seems to still be a debate regarding this, personally I'm in the skin over armour camp.

Yeah, I've always been more into the skin covered look myself. That was what I first encountered in Trey's videos back when I got interested in paleontology again. Other than its appearance in Sea Monsters, I wasn't to familiar with it before.

[Loon]

Oh no that one has that lame drawing I made as a teenager in the thumbnail.

Don't knock yourself too much, your Dimetrodon and Dunkleosteus drawings were some of the icons of my early days in this hobby.

[Halichoeres]

*whispers*
Faaaaavoooriiiite.

Hmmm... That one's not bad. I completely forgot about. It looks to have the more accurate fins, but the head looks a bit-outdated to me. Is it still thought that the armor would stick out that much?

Also, could someone do a siz comparison with the CollectA Figure and the favorite one for me?

I agree that it's the best one on the market, and I don't think any others come close. The lack of skin on the head is my only real problem with it.

Here's a reference for fin anatomy in case that helps: https://incertaesedisblog.wordpress.com/2020/11/03/ceratotrichia-and-dorsal-fin-shape-in-arthrodires/

The fins of the Favorite are the best of any figure except maybe the Kaiyodo.

And finally, here's a comparison photo from the brief window when the CollectA version was in my collection. The Favorite looks more foreshortened than it is in reality because of its severe angle:

[Loon]

@Halichoeres thanks for sharing that article. I know nothing about fish, or really anything for that matter (I just pretend to on the internet), but it was really interesting. I don't think I've ever actually see the original Dunkleosteus fossils before.

As for the toys, when compared to the Favorite figure, it looks like the CollectA model really dropped the ball. Though, I just can't get over the exposed plates. I'm sure if I had them repainted to match the body color, they might look better; but, I don't know, I'll have to think about it.

[Loon]

I think a simple repaint where the body pattern matches the plates should do the trick, I intend to do the same with the Schleich one.
Besides making the plates stick awkwardly out in the original paint job Favorite picked for this Tokugawa sculpt, it also breaks the countershading which doesn't make much sense ecologically.

I'll have to keep an eye out for one. All of the figures on eBay are around or over $50, and with the shipping issues between Japan and the States, I'll have to wait.

[Loon]

You could contact Brett regarding that.

I considered it, as I already have some figures coming from him, but apparently shipping from Japan may not be a thing for much longer, so he's trying to get everything out now. I don't want to hassle him or his sources for a figure I'm not sold on yet.

[Halichoeres]

If you choose to get it at some point, HobbyLink Japan is also an option: https://www.hlj.com/dunkleosteus-soft-model-fav77614

They have a "private warehouse" system (like the "pile of loot" at BBTS) and will hold things for up to 6 weeks normally, but they're holding things more or less indefinitely right now because of shipping restrictions.

[stargatedalek]

If you choose to get it at some point, HobbyLink Japan is also an option: https://www.hlj.com/dunkleosteus-soft-model-fav77614

They have a "private warehouse" system (like the "pile of loot" at BBTS) and will hold things for up to 6 weeks normally, but they're holding things more or less indefinitely right now because of shipping restrictions.

One note with Hobbylink, I've had Favorite stuff ordered from them for months that they simply haven't restocked. Even though it says the item can be ordered it may not happen quickly, or potentially at all unless there are other orders for the item besides yours.

[Loon]

Thanks for the link and the comments, but I think I'll wait till things get more stable and order one from Brett. Though, I'm secretly hoping someone makes a new one sooner than later.