Jurassic Park and Papo

[Over9K]

Another 'Walking With Dinosaurs' would have to be British again, I would think, due to the lack of a serious educational outlet in North America. The Brits take their nature TV seriously. I think that time/distance from the OG WWD, would create enough of an accuracy gap, that at some point, some film maker will see the need for a new one.

One thing that I personally have always dreampt of is a feature length, David Attenborough-narrated, state of the art telling of the complete lifecycle of the most popular, and best known dinosaur, Tyrannosaurus rex, sort of Steven Bissette's Tyrant, in the form of an accurate nature film. Given two hours, going from hatching to death as an old matriarch, a T.rex-centric film done right could give the audience a real good look into what the current science indicates life in the Late-Cretaceous would have looked like, introducing us to the flora and fauna around our protagonist rex.

Done right, in the WWD/Jurassic Park style with practical effects augmenting pure CGI, my dream-doc would cost a bunch, but for about 15 seconds, it would exist as the most accurate view into the past to that time. The trouble is finding anyone to bankroll such a niche project.

PBS

There's a reason all the big nature docs on PBS are British. PBS just doesn't have the ability to fund production of such a thing.

[Gwangi]

Another 'Walking With Dinosaurs' would have to be British again, I would think, due to the lack of a serious educational outlet in North America. The Brits take their nature TV seriously. I think that time/distance from the OG WWD, would create enough of an accuracy gap, that at some point, some film maker will see the need for a new one.

One thing that I personally have always dreampt of is a feature length, David Attenborough-narrated, state of the art telling of the complete lifecycle of the most popular, and best known dinosaur, Tyrannosaurus rex, sort of Steven Bissette's Tyrant, in the form of an accurate nature film. Given two hours, going from hatching to death as an old matriarch, a T.rex-centric film done right could give the audience a real good look into what the current science indicates life in the Late-Cretaceous would have looked like, introducing us to the flora and fauna around our protagonist rex.

Done right, in the WWD/Jurassic Park style with practical effects augmenting pure CGI, my dream-doc would cost a bunch, but for about 15 seconds, it would exist as the most accurate view into the past to that time. The trouble is finding anyone to bankroll such a niche project.

PBS

There's a reason all the big nature docs on PBS are British. PBS just doesn't have the ability to fund production of such a thing.

PBS has NOVA and Nature, they aren't British, and they're excellent. I agree that in general the UK has better documentaries but there are still good programs coming out of the U.S.

[Halichoeres]

JP and Papo are really similar in that they both changed things for the better. JP improved the popular conception of dinosaurs, and Papo compelled other companies to put more effort into their toys. Both have failed to keep up, though, and have poisoned their respective industries. JP is allelopathic; it poisons the earth for any other prehistoric media that could otherwise emerge and reinvigorate the genre. Papo poisons its industry by tricking people into conflating detail, however unjustified, with realism. Forgive me for paraphrasing a Batman movie, but they've both lived long enough to become the villains.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WfRcnF4iZI

[Bread]

Another 'Walking With Dinosaurs' would have to be British again, I would think, due to the lack of a serious educational outlet in North America. The Brits take their nature TV seriously. I think that time/distance from the OG WWD, would create enough of an accuracy gap, that at some point, some film maker will see the need for a new one.

One thing that I personally have always dreampt of is a feature length, David Attenborough-narrated, state of the art telling of the complete lifecycle of the most popular, and best known dinosaur, Tyrannosaurus rex, sort of Steven Bissette's Tyrant, in the form of an accurate nature film. Given two hours, going from hatching to death as an old matriarch, a T.rex-centric film done right could give the audience a real good look into what the current science indicates life in the Late-Cretaceous would have looked like, introducing us to the flora and fauna around our protagonist rex.

Done right, in the WWD/Jurassic Park style with practical effects augmenting pure CGI, my dream-doc would cost a bunch, but for about 15 seconds, it would exist as the most accurate view into the past to that time. The trouble is finding anyone to bankroll such a niche project.

PBS

There's a reason all the big nature docs on PBS are British. PBS just doesn't have the ability to fund production of such a thing.

PBS has NOVA and Nature, they aren't British, and they're excellent. I agree that in general the UK has better documentaries but there are still good programs coming out of the U.S.

I would say the only good dinosaur documentary would be "When Dinosaurs Roamed America" but that is just my opinion. Other U.S. documentaries just did not hold up as well for me.

[stargatedalek]

I liked Dinosaur Planet (NOT to be confused with Planet Dinosaur) as much as I've liked any BBC documentary and probably more at that, WWD included.

[Lynx]

I just noticed that the Amber Collection Ptero was revealed- and oh my word... this might be the first JP figure I will be getting. I'm no huge fan of the JP Series, but the ptero is beautiful. Definitely picking this guy up. It is insanely detailed and they did an amazing job at hiding most of the articulation, this figure is almost BOTM quality. Never thought I would say that about a JP figure.

[Bread]

I liked Dinosaur Planet (NOT to be confused with Planet Dinosaur) as much as I've liked any BBC documentary and probably more at that, WWD included.

Forgot about the two you had mentioned. I still think I have the Dinosaur Planet DVD's somewhere.

With Nanmu's new release of the possible bull rex, it just pushes me away from Papo's rexes. I was somewhat close to trying to find and buy the green rex from someone, but the reveal of Nanmu's has definitely changed my decision.

[Patrx]

JP and Papo are really similar in that they both changed things for the better. JP improved the popular conception of dinosaurs, and Papo compelled other companies to put more effort into their toys. Both have failed to keep up, though, and have poisoned their respective industries. JP is allelopathic; it poisons the earth for any other prehistoric media that could otherwise emerge and reinvigorate the genre. Papo poisons its industry by tricking people into conflating detail, however unjustified, with realism. Forgive me for paraphrasing a Batman movie, but they've both lived long enough to become the villains.

Well-put. Personally, I think that at least in Jurassic's case, there is an element of failed responsibility in play, though perhaps not reason to expect any film producers to see it as such.

Also, PBS definitely doesn't have a lot of money, but we do make Eons on YouTube! That's pretty reliably good.

[Halichoeres]

JP and Papo are really similar in that they both changed things for the better. JP improved the popular conception of dinosaurs, and Papo compelled other companies to put more effort into their toys. Both have failed to keep up, though, and have poisoned their respective industries. JP is allelopathic; it poisons the earth for any other prehistoric media that could otherwise emerge and reinvigorate the genre. Papo poisons its industry by tricking people into conflating detail, however unjustified, with realism. Forgive me for paraphrasing a Batman movie, but they've both lived long enough to become the villains.

Well-put. Personally, I think that at least in Jurassic's case, there is an element of failed responsibility in play, though perhaps not reason to expect any film producers to see it as such.

Also, PBS definitely doesn't have a lot of money, but we do make Eons on YouTube! That's pretty reliably good.

I agree Eons is solid. I watch it pretty regularly.

Interesting that you mention failed responsibility. Do you mean that the JP/JW makers have a responsibility to accurately represent science? I'm not sure how I feel about that. I guess I have always thought of their responsibility as being 'make a good monster movie,' and the 1993 movie does that. TLW did a medium job; it has some good moments. All the movies since then don't even manage to be good monster movies (not that I'm a particular connoisseur of the genre). Of course, I'd prefer they used accurate dinosaur designs, but that's almost the least of the movies' problems. Like, it irritates me that JP/JW propagates mistaken ideas about prehistory, but it's not in the category of consequential science that I think filmmakers have a responsibility to accurately represent, like vaccine efficacy, climate change, consequences of poverty, etc.

[Patrx]

Interesting that you mention failed responsibility. Do you mean that the JP/JW makers have a responsibility to accurately represent science? I'm not sure how I feel about that. I guess I have always thought of their responsibility as being 'make a good monster movie,' and the 1993 movie does that. TLW did a medium job; it has some good moments. All the movies since then don't even manage to be good monster movies (not that I'm a particular connoisseur of the genre). Of course, I'd prefer they used accurate dinosaur designs, but that's almost the least of the movies' problems.

I don't have strong feelings about it, but I do think an argument could be made that, since the series has become essentially the only property that could popularize modern dinosaur paleontology, it follows that it should do so. The allelopathy you mentioned functionally makes JP the primary steward of people's attitudes regarding dinosaurs.

Like, it irritates me that JP/JW propagates mistaken ideas about prehistory, but it's not in the category of consequential science that I think filmmakers have a responsibility to accurately represent, like vaccine efficacy, climate change, consequences of poverty, etc.

Quite so, and that's one of the reasons I'm only mildly irritated by the movies myself. I suppose one could say, though, JP/JW does partly contribute to the perception of scientists as killjoys who "ruined" dinosaurs, which is a tiny facet of the big and complex problem of anti-science and anti-intellectual sentiment which the world is currently dealing with.

[Carnoking]

Whereas an argument could be made that JP/JW does carry some sort of responsibility for bringing attention to modern ideas and launching our current understanding of dinosaurs into the mainstream, I find it an unfair expectation given how Universal went about revitalizing the franchise. Had the new series been a standalone reboot, a new adaptation of Michael Crichton's original work, then I can see the sense in completely overhauling the look of the original films. But the fact of the matter is that the World trilogy is a direct continuation of the already established storyline and ideas from the original franchise. With that in mind, I think it would be incredibly jarring to have the designs updated to reflect our current knowledge, especially when some of the animals are holdovers from the original films. Since they wanted this to be one big storyline, the designs needed to stay consistent and feel like they're from the same world. That last part is important because the new franchise has gone out of its way to throw as many new dinosaurs as it can at us, but if the designs for the new animals are going to look like they came from the same company within the same universe, they can't be too different in style. Redoing the designs and only giving accurate looks to some of the new species would result in disjointed continuation, which is just not what the creators wanted.

All of that being said, now that the technology for creating dinosaurs is open source within the franchise, I sincerely hope those in charge will be taking advantage of the doors that opens and create some completely new and more accurate designs for dinosaurs coming from different companies who may be able to make them better than Ingen. I think that idea balances the need for consistency with old designs and the "responsibility" of showcasing more updated ideas.

But ultimately since these are science-fiction films, I do not go into them expecting the storytellers to be scientific. I think it is the responsibility of actual scientific programs and documentaries to be as up to date and accurate as possible, but not films that are obvious forays into fantasy. I get how it can be damaging for the wider public, but if anything I would hope that these movies still succeed in sparking interest, which could then in turn lead to a better understanding on one's own. Say what you will about Jurassic World, but that movie is what revitalized my interest in dinosaurs, and I think I've learned a lot about them in the past five years because of it. 

[Halichoeres]

Interesting that you mention failed responsibility. Do you mean that the JP/JW makers have a responsibility to accurately represent science? I'm not sure how I feel about that. I guess I have always thought of their responsibility as being 'make a good monster movie,' and the 1993 movie does that. TLW did a medium job; it has some good moments. All the movies since then don't even manage to be good monster movies (not that I'm a particular connoisseur of the genre). Of course, I'd prefer they used accurate dinosaur designs, but that's almost the least of the movies' problems.

I don't have strong feelings about it, but I do think an argument could be made that, since the series has become essentially the only property that could popularize modern dinosaur paleontology, it follows that it should do so. The allelopathy you mentioned functionally makes JP the primary steward of people's attitudes regarding dinosaurs.

Like, it irritates me that JP/JW propagates mistaken ideas about prehistory, but it's not in the category of consequential science that I think filmmakers have a responsibility to accurately represent, like vaccine efficacy, climate change, consequences of poverty, etc.

Quite so, and that's one of the reasons I'm only mildly irritated by the movies myself. I suppose one could say, though, JP/JW does partly contribute to the perception of scientists as killjoys who "ruined" dinosaurs, which is a tiny facet of the big and complex problem of anti-science and anti-intellectual sentiment which the world is currently dealing with.

Yeah, I see what you're saying. Given that they have a monopoly on big-budget dinosaur media, maybe that should come with a certain noblesse oblige.


@Carnoking interesting perspective. I would have preferred a hard reboot myself (although of course I would even more prefer a new, unrelated story), but I'm certainly glad to hear that JW has gotten new people into prehistory. I'm not a paleontologist, but I got to know a lot of them in grad school, and to a person they cite JP among their inspirations, even the ones who work on things like bivalves and trilobites. At the same time, I don't think JP/JW is uniquely capable of inspiring interest in paleontology--perhaps a different movie with similar themes, but more attentive to evidence, would do so just as well. But as has been discussed earlier in the thread, maybe the moment for something like that will never come again.

[japfeif]

.....it would probably have to be some remake/reboot/adaptation of a popular IP from the past.

I'm sure this will be a stupid question, but I'm wracking my brain trying to figure this out on my own & coming up with goose eggs!
What exactly is an "IP"?   

[Blade-of-the-Moon]

.....it would probably have to be some remake/reboot/adaptation of a popular IP from the past.

I'm sure this will be a stupid question, but I'm wracking my brain trying to figure this out on my own & coming up with goose eggs!
What exactly is an "IP"?   

What is the meaning of IP in business?
Intellectual property
Intellectual property is owned and legally protected by a company from outside use or implementation without consent. Intellectual property can consist of many types of assets, including trademarks, patents, and copyrights.