Mattel - New for 2023

[CityRaptor]

You know, I don't often agree with CollectJurassic, but yeah:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F1Ff-QaWcAA9ueu?format=jpg
Honestly, JP fans seem to jump to everything that is not Mattel, no matter how overpriced or stupid it is. And then there are those comparisms of things one can't actually compare...

[Carnoking]

Makes me wonder if they'll learn from this and try again or if they're just calling it quits.
I don't focus much on Mattel's other brands but are they doing any other kickstarters right now? If so, have they been more or less successful?

[Shane]

Sadly, it looks like backing for the JP Gates has completely stalled. Very little if any new backers over the weekend, with 9 days to go. The needle has stopped moving.

I don't say this to gloat, I say it with sadness and disappointment. This should have and could have been a slam dunk. It's really a shame Mattel fumbled the ball so much on this.

I have discussed it all weekend over on the various facebook groups. The few points against it I keep seeing repeated are:

1. Value for the money ( to me that's an opinion, most I've discussed with simply call it a " lot of repaints reused items " that doesn't jive with what I see at all.

2. Mattel is a greedy multi-billion dollar company that doesn't listen to it's fans ( I don't even know where to start with this one, all big businesses are evil ? )

3. They still have no idea how it works.  ( many think they will lose money if they try and back it which can happen on Kickstarter)

4. They have no problem paying 300.00 for a fan made custom that is super limited but is available now vs prepaying for something that is coming out at a later date.  ( if they limited it to just 500 pieces for say 500.00 I bet they would have sold them all with fans complaining it was too limited) 

5. The Spielberg set has taken some thunder away from it but it's not being discussed as much as this still. ( I think fans are experiencing burn out. I'm afraid if Mattel doesn't start pulling back some they will exhaust the fan base if they haven't already. )

I think, by far, the biggest issue people have is that what you get for $250 vs. what you COULD get for $250 ruins any perceived value.

People just don't want to drop $250 to potentially get ONLY the gate and SUV when there's a lot more desirable items and value locked behind very ambitious stretch goals.

It didn't help that they showed the whole set with all stretch items before launching the project. It made people expect it all and then got hit with pretty big sticker shock when it was revealed that most of the stuff was behind stretch goals.

As I said, if you feel this product is worth it as is, in its current form, that's a personal choice and I won't knock it. But you can't argue against the fact that a majority of fans did not see it that way.

I think if Mattel had offered a bit more upfront, or not made it stretch goals quite as ambitious, this would have been a much easier sell.

But I do agree with your point about burnout. People don't have the cash to throw around they might have a couple of years ago.

[Shane]

You know, I don't often agree with CollectJurassic, but yeah:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F1Ff-QaWcAA9ueu?format=jpg
Honestly, JP fans seem to jump to everything that is not Mattel, no matter how overpriced or stupid it is. And then there are those comparisms of things one can't actually compare...

That meme isn't correct though. You're rollin the dice that 10,000 people will be willing to spend that money to get "dinosaurs, vehicles, figures and the JP Gates". At the entry level, you're getting nothing but gates and vehicle. Clearly that didn't seem like a good value for the fans, otherwise they'd have been able to secure funding.

[Gwangi]

You know, I don't often agree with CollectJurassic, but yeah:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F1Ff-QaWcAA9ueu?format=jpg
Honestly, JP fans seem to jump to everything that is not Mattel, no matter how overpriced or stupid it is. And then there are those comparisms of things one can't actually compare...

That meme isn't correct though. You're rollin the dice that 10,000 people will be willing to spend that money to get "dinosaurs, vehicles, figures and the JP Gates". At the entry level, you're getting nothing but gates and vehicle. Clearly that didn't seem like a good value for the fans, otherwise they'd have been able to secure funding.

I also don't think that the meme is a fair comparison. That Ultimasaurus (or whatever it is called) is a custom made piece made by an independent artist who makes them by himself with extreme love, care, and craftsmanship. And the Ultimasaurus is also a highly desired figure among collectors that will probably never be made by the likes of Mattel. I don't want it, I think it is hideous, but I understand why others want it. The Mattel stuff is all mass produced using the cheapest materials and labor they can find. This custom made piece earns its price tag and the artist behind it has proven his worth in his past efforts, even if I think replacing half of a Hammond Collection figure with expensive custom parts is a bit ridiculous. 

[Flaffy]

You know, I don't often agree with CollectJurassic, but yeah:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F1Ff-QaWcAA9ueu?format=jpg
Honestly, JP fans seem to jump to everything that is not Mattel, no matter how overpriced or stupid it is. And then there are those comparisms of things one can't actually compare...

Another two points I'd like to add:

1) The latter is a guarenteed dinosaur. I'm pretty sure dinosaurs have a much better draw than a gate + jeep. Especially one that was cancelled way back when.

2) The Ultimasaurus is catering to a niche subset of dedicated fans who have plenty of cash to burn. The same people who can afford the Ultimasaurus custom probably have already backed the Mattel campaign. That's to say these two are not mutually exclusive groups.

[Faelrin]

I agree with Shane, Gwangi, and Flaffy. All good points raised.

Also yeah the burnout is real. Getting real hard to keep up with it all, or at least the occasional things I do like, and I mean this year hasn't had a lot from Mattel that I've wanted (compared with prior years), and yet I'm still cherry picking as tight as possible, and still behind on things, never-mind everything else out there these days, like the upcoming Cyberzoic kickstarter, Haolonggood, PNSO, etc. The aftermarket prices with Mattel's particular stuff doesn't help either. At least with Safari Ltd, etc I can sit on it for years and chances are it will still be readily available. I don't have much space right now anyways, living here in a hotel room with my dad, or like even in storage now either with how packed it is from everything in the apartment we lived in for like the past ten years, so that's another reason my spending needs to cease for the most part here on out, and just focus on saving up.

This is my full wishlist from this year's offerings (that has released so far), with how much I've been able to pick up so far:

Spoiler

Mainline:
-Borealopelta
-Dakosaurus
-Nothosaurus (my German friend has it in hand, but need to pay him shipping)
-Pyroraptor
-Edaphosaurus
-Herrerasaurus (paid for this before moving out I think? was sitting in my pile of loot at BBTS for a while anyways, just got it like last week)
-Gigantspinosaurus
-Diabloceratops (debating on it since I have the BotM one in storage. That said it was a genus I wanted to see them do years ago)
-Kronosaurus
-Regaliceratops (still not decided, sculpt is okay, but would prefer a repaint tbh. Also have the BotM one in storage, so I don't really need it either. It was also a genus I wanted to see them do a bit back, see link above)
-Elasmosaurus
-Habitat Defender Triceratops

'93 Classic:
Dr. Alan Grant Tactical Claw Pack (got it on sale, and also only because I saw it in store)
Dr. Ian Malcolm Glider Escape Pack
Electronic Real Feel Tyrannosaurus
Track & Explore Vehicle Set (got it on sale)

Epic Attack:
-Velociraptor (only picked these two up because I saw them in store, and was a birthday gift to self kind of timing thing)
-Dilophosaurus

Hammond Collection:
Velociraptor (JP///)
Stegosaurus (had it pre-ordered but had to cancel it because I didn't have the funds at the time)
Concavenator (pre-ordered this on EE back in Feb or March, prior to ending up here, and got free shipping with it from ordering the JPIII raptor with it too, with some kind of free shipping from spending over $40 code)
Ankylosaurus (got it on sale)
Corythosaurus (pre-ordered on EE)
Brachiosaurus

and some minis courtesy of @Flaffy, but only one from this year so far, also from before moving out.

[close]

No doubt I'll need to trim this down substantially here on out, and play catch up next year as well. I've already decided against picking up this year's SDCC exclusive. Like it's cool to see Spielberg get a figure, in a meta sense, but not something I need in my collection, and I don't really need a double HC Dilophosaurus, when it's still not even fully accurate to the film design. They could have improved it here, especially when it is intended to stand in as the animatronic, yet they didn't. Missed opportunity.

[andrewsaurus rex]

I don't know that it's burnout.  I think JW fans are as dedicated as Star Wars fans and SW fans are far from burnt out and they've been buying stuff since the 1990's.  However, there has been an inevitable reduction in SW toy buying in the last several years, and the same will no doubt happen with JW.  I think the big problem with the gates crowdfund is,  as has been stated by many on here, the stretch goals.  Mattel should have offered everything at the beginning for $250 but required 10,000 backers, or whatever they deemed necessary.  That would have had a much better chance of success imo.

And the customs vs mass produced by Mattel comparison is flawed.  Sure people will pay $300+ for custom gates, or an Ultimasaurus, but how many people will pay that?  Far fewer than there are currently backers for Mattel's gates I reckon.  Customs sell in the dozens or low hundreds.  Mass produced stuff needs to sell in the thousands.....a whole different ballgame.

[CityRaptor]

Okay, maybe a better comparism would have been this Lego Set:
https://dinotoyblog.com/jurassic-park-t-rex-rampage-legopart-1/
https://dinotoyblog.com/jurassic-park-t-rex-rampage-legopart-2/

[andrewsaurus rex]

well, that's a good way of supporting my point about Mattel's crowdfund.   That Lego set retails for about $200US and comes with much of what comes with Mattel's  crowdfund, with ALL the stretch goal stuff.....Mattel wants 5000 people to fork out $250 for the gates and an Explorer, and if you're really lucky, maybe they'll include some other stuff too.  And, I would point out that the Lego T rex is larger than Mattel's bull rex. 

The main difference here is that Lego had the guramba to make the set without a crowdfund or kickstarter.  Mattel does not.

[Shane]

Regarding the talk about custom pieces vs. mass produced offerings...with a custom piece, the amount of people you have to convince is by definition much smaller than a mass produced item.

It's easier to find one person (or ten people, or a hundred people) willing to spend $500 than it is to find 5,000 people willing to spend $250.

With something like the Ultimasaurus, there may be enough of a market for someone to create custom pieces that are very small run, and still make the necessary return on the investment of resources. I'm not super familiar with the Custom Ultimasaurus project, but how many were made? I cannot fathom that it was anywhere near the realm of 5,000, and certainly not 10,000.

It's always going to be much easier to find a dedicated but very small group of fans willing to pay lots of money for an expensive limited project.

But when Mattel is doing what basically amounts to a full mass market production run, it becomes harder to find the necessary amount of folks willing to drop the cash on it. The appeal of it on a broad scale goes down, and if the price doesn't drop enough to make up for it...in the words of Ian Malcolm..."well, there it is."

[stargatedalek]

well, that's a good way of supporting my point about Mattel's crowdfund.   That Lego set retails for about $200US and comes with much of what comes with Mattel's  crowdfund, with ALL the stretch goal stuff.....Mattel wants 5000 people to fork out $250 for the gates and an Explorer, and if you're really lucky, maybe they'll include some other stuff too.  And, I would point out that the Lego T rex is larger than Mattel's bull rex. 

The main difference here is that Lego had the guramba to make the set without a crowdfund or kickstarter.  Mattel does not.

LEGO is consistently charging very high prices, Mattel is not. This is something outside of Mattel's wheelhouse, for LEGO, expensive sets is their regular business. Plus LEGO didn't need any new machining for those sets.

Mattel botched this, clearly, but that is an even worse comparison than the custom Ultimasaurus.

[Halichoeres]

Unlike most here, the only elements I would be interested in are the gates and fences. I don't want any cars, people, or dinos. But $250 is asking kind of a lot for just fences. I suppose the other stuff could be resold, but anyway it's moot since this thing bombed so spectacularly.

[Faelrin]

@stargatedalek You've made an excellent point. Even looking at this from a purely collector based approach, most of Mattel's JW figures are typically pretty cheap at base retail prices for the most part. Most are under $30, sometimes over $40 for the large packs/sets, giant sauropods, etc. I think the most expensive set they released so far was the total flop of that Dominion Target exclusive set with repacks of the Giganotosaurus, Therizinosaurus, Tyrannosaurus, and exclusive older Ellie that went for over $100 if I recall. The Dreadnoughtus and this year's HC Brachiosaurus come close to $100 as well, but most of their offerings were and are substantially less.

It's why I have bought so many of them over the years. They still fit within my budget even as my family financially struggled at times (including now). Like my cheapest minimum credit card payment each month is $25, and one could easily afford one or several of those figures, because of how cheap many of them are. To pay for something like this (ignoring PA's 6% sales tax, and shipping, which obviously will inflate the high base cost further), I would need to save up for 10 months straight at the minimum payment of $25 each month, which is basically like what that payment plan option was (although with added interest as well, costing one even more long term). Thinking about all the people out there in the US alone struggling because of rising costs of living, and stagnant wages, etc, how many people are really out there that can throw down $250+ for something merely desired, but not necessary like housing, bills, food, etc is, on a whim's notice without any prior long term announcement? Not very many I gather.

Speaking of the payment plan, I heard it wasn't available to international backers, which combined with inflated costs, from conversion rates, tax, and shipping, etc, no wonder a lot were dipping out after it became available to them, especially if the initial value didn't seem worth it. Like even youtubers BestinSlot, and TheGamingBeaver, with large audiences, who probably could have easily afford it from monetization of their videos, have both said no this isn't a good deal for what you are getting.

Point is when there is a majority of overall negative reception to something, it was not handled well, period. There's also the fact the word has not been getting out there enough either, especially good word. There has only been a tiny uptick after BestinSlot and TheGamingBeaver made videos on this topic recently, big youtubers in the Jurassic community, (albeit for the games mostly, but still). The fact this barely even cleared 25% of the goal in all this time, with only 9 days left, a little over a week, is testament to how bad this was handled. Only 1,361 people have contributed so far. Most people are still either unaware of this, can't afford it, or don't want it altogether, with or without the remaining things shown, but locked behind absurd stretch goals, etc. Those that have contributed are clearly a minority at this point.

I hope they look at the feedback they've been given (which we know they do at least listen to sometimes, like hello that huge Triceratops with an articulated jaw, that many are excited for, revealed less then a year after the HC one released, and the poor receptive on it) so they can truly understand why this failed here, so that next time in the future they do something like this again, they can do much better. Less retools/repaints, less shoving film important characters behind stretch goals (especially something like the buck T. rex that should have just been released at retail), etc.

Speaking of the buck T. rex I hope this means it is not canceled altogether (along with the rest shown here, despite failing, like those paddock signs that could easily get added to like a legacy pack or something, in the future). That was really such a bad move on their part to tie it into something like this, and then a stretch goal on top of that. It really should have just been a standard release (which I mean literally none of their other repaints/retools have ever needed crowdfunding before. Shoot I mean look at last year's drastic Dimetrodon retool, or this year having two entirely different Irritator sculpts different from 2020's.

Lastly I speak as harshly as I do on this topic, because I am passionate, and having been collecting the line since 2018, and spent loads of money on their figures since then. I'm not completionist like some folks here are, but I do have nearly 300 figures from Mattel's Jurassic assortment (295 per what's up on the DTC website so far), far more then any other company I collect from, which I don't think is anything to scoff at either. I want them to do better, because I know they can do better. Especially coming from folks getting to work at a multi billion corporation who should have much better resources then the average fan. Things like slit pupils on a dinosaur that had round pupils in the film, and other minor mistakes shouldn't really be happening here (like such as in their collector oriented lines like HC), or you know stuff like this that seems out of touch with their adult collector demographic.

@Halichoeres It's $250 initially only for the Jurassic Park gate and retooled/repainted explorer. Everything else, like Tim and Lex, buck T. rex, the electronic fences, and the goat with removable leg, was locked behind stretch goals.

[Halichoeres]

@Halichoeres It's $250 initially only for the Jurassic Park gate and retooled/repainted explorer. Everything else, like Tim and Lex, buck T. rex, the electronic fences, and the goat with removable leg, was locked behind stretch goals.

Right, I was just saying even in the best-case scenario where all the stretch goals were unlocked.

I'm curious whether this generates enough bad PR to affect the sales of the rest of the line. They're definitely squandering some good will, as @Faelrin's post demonstrates. Still, I'm guessing that it will be a little embarrassing but won't meaningfully hit their bottom line.

[Faelrin]

@Halichoeres Ah yeah I see what you mean now. I'm basically in a similar boat as you then in that case, if everything shown was offered initially, or reached otherwise. I don't need the slightly improved/different number explorer, and yet another Tim (which I have two now) and Lex, with minor differences. I did want the gates, the fences, the signs, and goat, which were all new, as well as the buck T. rex, which has been the most accurate one to be attempted since Kenner's (although I may as well just get Kenner's. Still a fine figure after all this time).

[andrewsaurus rex]

well, that's a good way of supporting my point about Mattel's crowdfund.   That Lego set retails for about $200US and comes with much of what comes with Mattel's  crowdfund, with ALL the stretch goal stuff.....Mattel wants 5000 people to fork out $250 for the gates and an Explorer, and if you're really lucky, maybe they'll include some other stuff too.  And, I would point out that the Lego T rex is larger than Mattel's bull rex. 

The main difference here is that Lego had the guramba to make the set without a crowdfund or kickstarter.  Mattel does not.

LEGO is consistently charging very high prices, Mattel is not. This is something outside of Mattel's wheelhouse, for LEGO, expensive sets is their regular business. Plus LEGO didn't need any new machining for those sets.

Mattel botched this, clearly, but that is an even worse comparison than the custom Ultimasaurus.

I don't see how it's a worse comparison.   I think it's a fair comparison.  The Lego set shows that people will pay high dollars for a set that contains a lot of neat stuff that they like.  It also shows this specific subject matter is of high interest to JW fans.  But the initial Mattel offering is for just the gates and an Explorer......neat stuff but not a lot of it and for 25% more cost than the Lego set, which contains a lot more.  The Explorer is not a new tooling, so zero risk there.   Tooling costs are expensive, to be sure but it's production, packaging and distribution costs that are the lion's share. of the cost, and both Lego and Mattel face those with these expensive sets....so Lego is risking a lot too, when they release big sets.

Lego has had lots of expensive sets bomb too.....not everything Lego does is a winner.  They've had whole lines bomb, but that doesn't deter them from experimenting and trying new things and pushing the envelope. 

I shouldn't have criticized Mattel for crowdfunding the gates project, that's a smart and safe way to go and Hasbro did it very successfully with the 4 foot Jabba's Sail Barge.  But if they're going to do it they shouldn't have done it in such an amateurish fashion.  It's not like crowdfunding is a brand new thing.  Putting a bit of thought and effort into it may well have resulted in a success, because both expensive customs and the Lego set show that people are willing to pay higher dollars for something they want. 

Offering much more stuff initially for the same $250 price and simply requiring more people to participate to get the project off the ground would have had a much better chance of succeeding.

[suspsy]

I really wouldn't bother trying to put LEGO and Mattel in the same boat, that's apples and tomatoes. And it's also worth noting that AFOLs have been complaining about LEGO's increasing prices for a long time now.

[andrewsaurus rex]

I know Mattel's toys and Legos seem very different, but they are really just two different ways of accomplishing the same thing.....for fans to get toys of things they love.   Some prefer more realistic figures like those that Mattel produces, others prefer the stylization of Legos  and the fun of building their toys.

Hasbro Star Wars releases and Lego Star Wars sets mirror one another very closely in subject matter and there was a time that Hasbro sued Lego because of their Star Wars mini figures.......they alleged that Lego was infringing on the rights Hasbro owned to exclusively produce star wars character figures.   Hasbro did lose the case, but it was a narrow decision.

There are even Star Wars Hasbro collectors that use Lego sets to create settings and accessories for their Hasbro figures and vehicles.  So I believe it's a better comparison than it may seem at first glance.

The bottom line is I believe collectors would get behind Mattel's gates crowdfunding project if it were either cheaper for what they are initially offering or if they offered more stuff for the $250 starting price and the reason I believe that is because collectors are willing to pay $200 for Lego's T-rex Rampage set, which has a T. rex, the gates and a few character figures in it.

[Blade-of-the-Moon]

Regarding the talk about custom pieces vs. mass produced offerings...with a custom piece, the amount of people you have to convince is by definition much smaller than a mass produced item.

It's easier to find one person (or ten people, or a hundred people) willing to spend $500 than it is to find 5,000 people willing to spend $250.

With something like the Ultimasaurus, there may be enough of a market for someone to create custom pieces that are very small run, and still make the necessary return on the investment of resources. I'm not super familiar with the Custom Ultimasaurus project, but how many were made? I cannot fathom that it was anywhere near the realm of 5,000, and certainly not 10,000.

It's always going to be much easier to find a dedicated but very small group of fans willing to pay lots of money for an expensive limited project.

But when Mattel is doing what basically amounts to a full mass market production run, it becomes harder to find the necessary amount of folks willing to drop the cash on it. The appeal of it on a broad scale goes down, and if the price doesn't drop enough to make up for it...in the words of Ian Malcolm..."well, there it is."

There were 30 initially made. 5 went to the artists and a couple Youtube content creators, the rest went up for sale and sold out in less than a minute.

Mattel may be a victim of their own success? Had they made a much smaller run they would have made money but perhaps not enough to justify it as a corporation.

Speaking of things they could have made..an adult version of Lex and Tim would have been a neat fantasy set.


OT :  Didn't feel like really making a thread just for this ,but I have a spare Borealopelta and a Macaw Pyroraptor. Looking to trade for an Einiosaurus or Black Moros if anyone wants to just message me.