Re-issue of Battat former Museum of Science Boston Series

[PaleoMatt]

Can we stop arguing please, people have opinions on what toys they buy

[amargasaurus cazaui]

Thats the fun thing about science....wether you like it or not, wether you agree with it or not, it tends to go its own way ...or as someone once said, man proposes, nature disposes. I dont have a dog in the race wether stegosaurus was an eight spiked or four type, but I will get the model because I like that Dan did a repaint for us...just so we could have it. Before he passed away he felt it was important enough to take the time and repaint the various figures so I will get them , wether I agree with some aspects or wether I like certain ones or not. Having said all of that I do find something slightly offputting about the stegosaurus model, I just cannot put a name to what it is. Just something that does not quite look right to me...

[tyrantqueen]

Yep, I agree. I think you have to ignore your feelings for whether you like the way an extinct animal looks (to a certain extent). Science has the final say in the matter whether you like it or not. As for the stegosaurus, I don't know right now. I remain open to the possibility. Dinosaurs were crazy creatures.

[CityRaptor]

True. Just think of all the bizarre recent discoveries.

8 Spike is also how it is depicted in the Dinosaur Heresies, so it would be nice to have that in figure form.

Wonderful news!  I'm really happy the Battat dinosaur line is continuing!  I'd started thinking the next dinosaurs would probably be released in 2016, but here they are!


...  A few days ago I found out Stegosaurus ungulatus (the species of the Battat figure) might have had 8 tail spikes after all.

Some big changes have happened to the classification of Stegosaurus.  The original type species for Stegosaurus is Stegosaurus armatus - this was the species for which the name "Stegosaurus" was created for.  Later, other species of Stegosaurus have been named too.  However, in recent years, examination of Stegosaurus fossils has found several things, some of which are relevant here...

Stegosaurus armatus has been found to be a nomen dubium as the original specimen is very fragmentary and consequently extremely difficult to compare with better specimens.  Because of this, the ICZN has made Stegosaurus stenops, which is known from good remains, the new type species of Stegosaurus.  The name "Stegosaurus" is now permanently attached to S. stenops.  This leaves only two valid Stegosaurus species.  The large-plated 7m Stegosaurus stenops, and the smaller-plated 9m Stegosaurus ungulatus.

The original specimen of Stegosaurus ungulatus was found with 8 spikes.  It turns out it's not actually known if they had 8 spikes or not.  No other extra bones were found with this specimen, so it's not known if all 8 spikes came from this one specimen, or if they are from more than one Stegosaurus.  No S. ungulatus specimens have been found with complete or articulated sets of tail spikes, and no other specimens have been found with 8 spikes.  Some specimens referred to S. ungulatus have been found with 4 spikes.  Although I wonder if they could actually be different species or subspecies.  Who knows if the amount of tail spikes could differ in S. ungulatus due to species, individual variation, sexual dimorphism, location...

It has been suggested the plates in S. ungulatus are paired due to a pair of identical but mirrored tail plates having been found.  I don't find this convincing though, as it doesn't seem unlikely a few plates could be the same size and be staggered.  Its very close relative S. stenops is known to have staggered plates.

At this point I don't think I can say 8 spikes on a Stegosaurus ungulatus is definitely an inaccuracy.  It looks like it could be possible this species, or some individuals of this species, had 8 spikes.  I wish Dan could see that now it's considered possible S. ungulatus had 8 spikes.

I'm now reminded of amargasaurus's post (Reply #12) in this thread: http://dinotoyblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=2768.0

Interesting.

[Shuvuuia]

My girlfriend is making a target run to the store near her work. I told her to take pictures of the Terras, since she doesn't know anything about dinosaurs. I'll report back if there's anything new!

[deanm]

Well nothing new at the Boston target stores. Hopefully on my next trip into the states I will find the new releases

[Sim]

Thank you, that's really useful to know.  So the four Target are currently offering online are the first four.  Hopefully they'll catch up with themselves soon.

You're welcome!

[Dinoguy2]

As for the 8 spiked ungulatus holotype, most scientists still say it's probably from a second specimen since two pair have the same base width as other two pairs. In articulated specimens the spikes get narrower towards the tail tip. However, those potential paired plated Sim mentioned are actually the last two which have often been described as small "flat spines". They are more pointy than the rest of the plates, somewhere between plates and spikes. These are a key feature for classifying S. ungulatus as different from S. stenops. Note in Bakker's skeletal from Heresies based directly on the Yale holotype the plates start round and get pointy and Hershey kiss shaped towards the back (unlike stenops which has triangular rounded plates all over). So maybe the tail of ungulatus really was somewhat more Kentrosaurus like, and graded from staggered plates to paired spiny plates to multiple pairs of true spikes.

As most papers on the topic agree, the only way to be sure is to check the original quarry for any other duplicate bones. It's highly suspicious that no other doubles were found besides the extra spikes, but then again they might have only collected what they needed for the mount (still up at Yale with 8 spikes but due for renovation) and left extra leg bones etc. behind.

I should mention this was always one of my favorite Battat despite the spike issue, might have to get the repaint just to have it in classic green/red Knight color scheme

[Sim]

Thanks for the information, Dinoguy2.  Is this Bakker's skeletal that you mentioned?: http://www.miketaylor.org.uk/tmp/Bakker1986--Dinosaur-Heresies--p228--Stegosaurus-ungulatus.jpeg  The Battat Stegosaurus looks a lot like it.  From what I've seen, the Stegosaurus seems to have been one of the least popular Battat dinosaurs, maybe even the least popular.  I'm curious, what makes it one of your favourites?

[Don B.]

I've been checking four local Targets and until last Saturday had only found the original four plus T-Rex and Acrocanthosaurus. Then, last Saturday, found the Carnotaurus, Ceratosaurus and Amargasaurus, They had but one of each. Needless to say, they didn't have them after that.

[Dinoguy2]

Thanks for the information, Dinoguy2.  Is this Bakker's skeletal that you mentioned?: http://www.miketaylor.org.uk/tmp/Bakker1986--Dinosaur-Heresies--p228--Stegosaurus-ungulatus.jpeg  The Battat Stegosaurus looks a lot like it.  From what I've seen, the Stegosaurus seems to have been one of the least popular Battat dinosaurs, maybe even the least popular.  I'm curious, what makes it one of your favourites?

I like the fact that it seems to be a pretty faithful reconstruction of an individual specimen (a type specimen at that) rather than every other Stegosaurus on the market which is basically Generic Stegosaurus Sp.. Also, I dunno, always had a soft sport for the look, feel, and texture of the figure, and the color scheme.

And, yup, that's the Bakker skeletal. Pretty obviously the source of the Battat figure. Here's the mounted specimen it's based on:

(The plates have since been re-mounted into staggered rows.)

[pylraster]

As for the tail spikes, it can be really divisive, but I can overlook it because of the overall good sculpt of the creature.

[Sim]

I should say, what I said about the Battat Stegosaurus not seeming to be very popular is based on what I've seen said by collectors, and it being the only one of the 18 Battat MOS dinosaurs still listed as available to buy on Dan LoRusso's website.  I don't know how popular it's been (and the re-issue will be) with the general public.

I think it's safe to say the amount of tail spikes is what made the figure less popular among collectors, as it was believed S. ungulatus definitely had four tail spikes like S. stenops.  The possibility that specimens of S. ungulatus might have had eight tail spikes is enough to make me look at the Battat Stegosaurus afresh.  It does have a lot of good detail, like all of Dan and Greg's Battat dinosaurs.  I've long thought the Battat Stegosaurus's plates looked odd, I didn't realise they are actually modelled after the plates that are known from S. ungulatus.  I guess I'm used to seeing S. stenops and generic Stegosauruses.  It's very interesting how S. ungulatus's plates change in shape along its back.  It's very nice the Battat Stegosaurus has this.  In his comment on the Battat MOS Stegosaurus DTB review, Dan LoRusso said one of his references for the Battat Stegosaurus was pictures he'd taken of Yale Museum's Stegosaurus mount.

[Stuckasaurus (Dino Dad Reviews)]

Parasaur sighting in Cali! I don't know how to upload pics or I would show the one I found.

[ItsTwentyBelow]

Exciting to see more Battat releases trickle in! I've checked two Targets in the south Seattle area so far with none of these most recent dinos. One location was well-stocked with at least one each of all the current medium and large dinosaurs.

Now that the Parasaurolophus has been sighted I'm getting very excited indeed! My favorite dinosaur, and this is probably the most beautiful mass-produced sculpt of the animal that I do not own. The real hunt begins! 

[dutchdinolover]

Interesting info about the 8 spiked stegosaurus, guys. Thanks for sharing. It shines a new light on the battat stegosaurus and I must say that I'm interested in buying one know.

[ltokuda]

I found a euoplocephalus, stegosaurus, parasaurolophus, and ceratosaurus at my local target in Southern California!  I think I took the last ones!

[Dinomike]

Wow! Para's out! That's one if my favorites! Can't wait for the elusive Dippy though!

[tyrantqueen]

Hi
Now that the Para's out, would anyone be happy to hook me up with one? I'll cover costs, naturally.

[suspsy]

I hope that the next wave includes the Triceratops and the Styracosaurus.