Re-issue of Battat former Museum of Science Boston Series

[FlawedCoil82]

Well, I guess for the company all that counts is, does it count up? From the very subjective collector's view those figures were great and are high in demand, but did they really sell that well or do their repaints? Noone can be sure, as only Battat could give an answer to that. If they sold and sell well, the others will follow sooner or later with a high probability I guess... but if they didn't and/or don't? I frequently search for Battat models on ebay (as I am pretty sure do a lot of our community here), but there are rarely any of them for sale. If I compare that to, let's say Schleich's in Germany ( a country with a way smaller population than the US) I can find almost any figure at any given time, no matter if it's discontinued for 5 years or twenty. This however may also be a very subjective view, but it leads me to the suggestion, that all the sold Battats are either locked away or that there aren't so many out there....?

All I can state is from the two Target stores I am able to go to, the figures seemed to sell well. I would go one week and see like 15 of the Dino's on the shelves, then go back 3 weeks later and there would be only one or two left. Then the next time I would go, they would be restocked and then disappear again. So at the two stores here, they seem to do well. At Meijer stores, they only stock the boxes wildlife Terra figures, but not the dinosaurs (I even mentioned that the Dino's are mainly what people want, not the wildlife ones). I also asked why Battat could not offer to sell their dinosaurs online via their website if Target for some reason was not wanting to carry the line anymore. They mentioned nothing about that suggestion.

[SidB]

As a long-time collector of the Battat dinosaur line, old and new, I share the general frustration with Battat's offhand and even contemptuous responses to our inquiries. These responses border on the indifferent and even cynical. Why? I think that Shonisaurus' characterization of this company as an "entity" is perceptive. We are hardly dealing with human persons here, rather a corporate entity that is utterly indifferent to the emotional weather of collectors and dinophiles. It's just and only about the money, barefaced and nothing more. They can barely be polite and even human, but, after all, thats what we're dealing with - a virtually inhuman entity. No more, no less.

[Shonisaurus]

Well, I guess for the company all that counts is, does it count up? From the very subjective collector's view those figures were great and are high in demand, but did they really sell that well or do their repaints? Noone can be sure, as only Battat could give an answer to that. If they sold and sell well, the others will follow sooner or later with a high probability I guess... but if they didn't and/or don't? I frequently search for Battat models on ebay (as I am pretty sure do a lot of our community here), but there are rarely any of them for sale. If I compare that to, let's say Schleich's in Germany ( a country with a way smaller population than the US) I can find almost any figure at any given time, no matter if it's discontinued for 5 years or twenty. This however may also be a very subjective view, but it leads me to the suggestion, that all the sold Battats are either locked away or that there aren't so many out there....?

Honestly the difficulty of finding out-of-date dinosaurs Battat and unfortunately scarce and sold by bidding at wild prices for me means an important thing, considering that the United States is the third most populous nation in the world:

These dinosaurs have had and are so successful that in spite of being massively sold in their day their buyers or heirs are left in many cases (in others they will be discarded as many objects that no longer interest toys as much as other products). I understand that that is one reason that these figures are not easily sold.

Then if you value both prices can be two things or that they are scarce (which I sincerely doubt) or that they simply have a value even though they can be very important discontinued models very important not only for their rarity, but also from the point of paleoartistic view.

While in other companies we find discontinued models quite often on eBay unfortunately not Battat, because perhaps they are the best figures of dinosaur toys still made in some versions (for example diplodocus or maiasaura are still the best figures according to many experts of the forum ), and people are reluctant to sell them not only because of their paleo-artistic value but also because of their sentimental value and because they want to have them in their homes. They are very interesting figures. Another thing is companies like Play Visions whose figures such as prehistoric mammals and prehistoric amphibians are also difficult to find but it is because they occurred in very limited editions that has not happened with Battat.

I think from my absolute ignorance about this company that there is a problem between the heirs of Dan LoRusso and the company Battat (even what I say is nonsense) and that's why they do not manufacture the news or are waiting for a better time to market the reissues of Battat. Honestly, I do not believe that Battat threw a stone throw to his own roof, taking into account the quality and degree of acceptance of such figures.

Another thing is that the company may not go well commercially before so much competition from old and new companies and has abandoned the production of prehistoric animals, in this case all dinosaurs (although it does not give signs of assertion or denial cutting) as it has happened to Bullyland that not even in this year unfortunately has revealed any dinosaur figure.

[stegosauria]

Recently I had an idea about how to persuade Battat. If they are interested in money then maybe we should write a list about all the forum members who would want to buy their unreleased dinosaur figures and send that list to them. It's maybe a better shot if they got a list contains I don't know 100-200 (or more) people's name then two dozens people write them emails individually. When the photoy about the repyints were anounced originally I wasn't interested in all of them. Now I am if I got the chance.

[FlawedCoil82]

Recently I had an idea about how to persuade Battat. If they are interested in money then maybe we should write a list about all the forum members who would want to buy their unreleased dinosaur figures and send that list to them. It's maybe a better shot if they got a list contains I don't know 100-200 (or more) people's name then two dozens people write them emails individually. When the photoy about the repyints were anounced originally I wasn't interested in all of them. Now I am if I got the chance.

Well at this point, I would be willing to try just about anything. However, I think SidB is correct. Battat doesn't seem to give the slightest care that people want their figures and that some are paying insane prices for them. Battat is entirely clueless and have zero interest in trying to meet the demand. Their total lack of giving a damn doesn't make any sense to me because I would think that they would be wanting to sell their figures to make more money, but that apparently must not be their priority.

[sauroid]

no matter how much we pester them (in a nice way via email etc) about continuing the Battat dinosaurs, whoever is handling communication will just ignore us/make lame excuses. let's just hope they go out of business.

[Takama]

IT seems to me that Battat never really gave that much of a crap about these dinosaurs.   If they did, Why did it not contiue past 1998?  I think the only reason Battat reserected the Sereis was through some pestering from Dan LoRusso himself, But deep down, i think they just dont give a crap about them, other wise we would see the rest of the models by now.

Right now, i consider my Battat Terra Collection complete

[Sim]

IT seems to me that Battat never really gave that much of a crap about these dinosaurs.   If they did, Why did it not contiue past 1998?

From what I remember, many years ago I asked Dan LoRusso why the Battat Museum of Science Boston dinosaur series was discontinued, and he said it was because Battat had become bankrupt.

[Stuckasaurus (Dino Dad Reviews)]

IT seems to me that Battat never really gave that much of a crap about these dinosaurs.   If they did, Why did it not contiue past 1998?

From what I remember, many years ago I asked Dan LoRusso why the Battat Museum of Science Boston dinosaur series was discontinued, and he said it was because Battat had become bankrupt.

MORALLY bankrupt! LOL, just kidding. As much as I'm aching to get my hands on more Battats, i suppose that's a little extreme.

[Simon]

The profit margin on those Battat dinosaurs must never have been very big.  That's the only explanation that makes sense to me.  I have no idea about the economics of that part of Battat's toy business, but that's the only explanation that makes sense. What they sell for at Target is basically tantamount to "giving them away", and I am sure that a return of a few cents per figure is just not cutting it....

[Flaffy]

I wonder why they made them Target exclusive in the first place though, maybe that's the problem, distribution and reach.

[SidB]

Battat seems to be at the other end of the spectrum from Schleich. The first almost passive, the other very aggressive in regards to marketing strategies.

[Daspletodave]

It needs to be said that Battat has absolutely no control over what their older figures are selling for on the secondary market, such as Ebay. The company does not get a cent from those sales. So to say they would get rich if they released more figures is nonsense. The company would still only get whatever the deal with Target stipulates, which, as Simon put it is basically giving them away.

[Bokisaurus]

Reading some of the comment here, I figure its time for me to add my two cents.
First of all, Battat is a large company that focus mostly on infant, toddlers, and small kids toys and products. They have been around for a very long time, longer in fact than many of brands out there.
The prehistoric figure line was just a very small category in their large range of products. It is amazing really that when they decided to jump on the prehistoric figure market that they came out with a line that is first class and of high accuracy and details right of the bat. Consider that most company when they start their prehistoric line, that their early figures are not so good to ugly. It is also worth noting that Battat have chosen as part of their line, species that were very unique and not just the standard top five or popular species.

I don't think that the reason Battat discontinued their prehistoric line is that they were going out of business, after all they are still around today.
I think that like all business, they have to look at profit, yearly evaluating each category performance. Unfortunately, as beautiful as the figures were, I don't think that it performed as well as they have hoped for, especially when newly emerged competition started to really make a dent on the market.

I worked in retail for years, and producing figures is an expensive investment. So I believe that, after underperforming, they decided to pull the plug completely and just focus on their main product line.
I don't believe that Battat " don't care about their customers". To me, that is overly simplifying a very complex and expensive venture.
I would not be surprised if one of the reasons they resurrected the line was hearing enough demands from collectors.
Partnering with Target was a business move, perhaps to help shoulder the cost of producing these figures/line. Was it the smarted move? Yes and no.
Yes, it helped with production cost and distribution in the USA. NO- it made the figures harder to get overseas, and it put the demand for more production dependent on how the line performed in Target stores.
Unfortunately, despite the beautiful updates and the cool but unnecessary and excessive packaging, I don' think the line did as well as they have hoped for.
To add to that, Dan's passing left the whole project without a leader.

I believe that we may never see the remaining old figures be released. Most unfortunate is the  loss of the newly sculpted pieces.
The reason I believe that the remaining old figures won't see the light of day is that I don't t think they even got produced, most likely they were only on the paint prototype stage.
If they were produced, Bsattat/Target will not be sitting on them due to inventory, after all, companies don't want inventory dollars just tied and inactive.
As for the newly sculpted species, same thing. I don't think they even reached beyond the prototype stage, meaning they were not even molded or casted for mass production.

In the end, business is business. If a line underperform no matter how awesome or beloved they are to some, it vill face the inevitable chopping block.
In todays toy figure market, the competition with other brands, not to mention those ubiquitous knock offs, could prove fatal to some lines.
And to be honest, I don't remember any partnership with a major chain company like Target ever been tried, and if it has, lasting very long. After all, even Target sells some of those cheap knock off and Schleichs
I hope that, if anything, Battat will hold on to these molds as they have.
Who knows, maybe, just maybe, they will one day again resurface...

[paintingdinos]

Great post, Bokisaurus.

I've worked as the head of customer service departments for companies where the focus was goods manufacturing, and one thing I can say for all of them: no one likes it when a product is discontinued. Even when discontinuing a product or line is the correct thing to do, companies are not unaware of the frustration this causes customers. No company deliberately seeks to frustrate its customers.

Especially not the people fielding customer service inquiries. These people are tasked with relaying the facts- they can apologize and try to be polite about it, but at the end of the day a "no" is still a "no". Staying polite and not making things personal (ie, NOT saying the company "doesn't care about you/people/collectors/etc") is generally a good approach when reaching out to them. Customers saying they would love to see a discontinued product return because they enjoyed it and would like to continue purchasing, creates an atmosphere that inclines someone to pass feedback upwards. Pushy or angry customers who demand things or make accusations against the company typically don't get a lot of sympathy.

Asking for something doesn't mean its going to come back. But if its something up in the air (or even if not), remaining civil is always the best approach.

Also, for Battat specifically, sharing that you'd like to see more dinosaur figures because you like the quality of their products and have enjoyed what they have produced thus far is a good approach. We have absolutely no idea why the rest of Dan's figures havn't been released, and there may well be a very good reason- so tell them about the things you are interested in without requesting a specific product. At least that gives them critical feedback for something that is within their control.

Just my $.02. I've spent plenty of time letting people down about products they loved- never feels good, and was never done because we didn't care. I doubt Battat is any different, and I'm sure there are more reasons than we are aware of as to why the rest of these figures haven't been released.

[Dyscrasia]

Great post indeed!

I know that this is just wishful thinking,

but I always hoped that another major model company (such as Safari)

bought the rights of the Battat dinosaurs and re-released all of them under their brand name.

[Doug Watson]

no matter how much we pester them (in a nice way via email etc) about continuing the Battat dinosaurs, whoever is handling communication will just ignore us/make lame excuses. let's just hope they go out of business.

I know collectors are a high strung bunch but really, you want them to go out of business? Don't forget there are real people that work for these companies and they don't make the decisions why would you want them to lose their livelihood because you can't get a toy. And if they did actually go out of business do you know what might happen to those moulds? If no one picked them up at the liquidation sale they might end up in a dumpster to be lost forever. If they really didn't give a "crap" as Takama has said why the hell did they keep the moulds since 1998 anyway. Instead of getting pissed off at them maybe you should thank them for preserving the moulds and giving Dan a shot at a new line. As Bokisaurus stated putting out a toy is an expensive proposition the metal production moulds alone are worth thousands.
Also don't forget the original line was a joint effort with the Boston Museum of Science, the museum may have been the one that pulled the plug on the original line for all we know.
They were my competitor but I would never hope for a company to go out of business unless the were doing real harm to people or animals.

[sauroid]

sorry. didnt mean to upset you.

[Doug Watson]

sorry. didnt mean to upset you.

Not really upset just hope you get my point.

[Sim]

I don't think that the reason Battat discontinued their prehistoric line is that they were going out of business, after all they are still around today.

I seem to remember Dan LoRusso telling me Battat apparently went through bankruptcy.  So it was temporary.  I didn't mean they've been bankrupt since then.  So the impression I got from what Dan LoRusso told me was that Battat discontinued their Museum of Science dinosaur line to help recover from bankruptcy.