Do we really need to weed out the bad in every Dino toy company?

[Hynerpeton]

Forget it then. Be rude or etc see how far you get. Ok?

[amanda]

Forget it then. Be rude or etc see how far you get. Ok?

You mean similar to your current posts? You have your point of view, are entitled to it and have expressed it. We do not agree. It our right, and it's all good. I do not see why you need to feel it is personal towards you.

[SBell]

EDIT: Not trying to open a can of worms here but how do people feel about Papo? Aside from copying JP material they're now using Sideshow as a reference point for their work. The Carnotaurus is like a mini-me clone of the Sideshow model. How do members feel about this?

I've never been shy about my thoughts on Papo as derivative. But it reaches into that grey area--their models are (usually) clearly inspired by the work of others, but are they plagiarized? Should they somehow be held accountable or brought to bear as well?

And what of other brands? It's not uncommon to find a figure by Safari, CollectA or Schleich clearly modeled or inspired by existing depictions (to say nothing of Mojo's original dinos that appear to be re-worked early CollectA. To say nothing of almost every Liopleurodon having a familiar pattern.

[Hynerpeton]

Forget it then. Be rude or etc see how far you get. Ok?

You mean similar to your current posts? You have your point of view, are entitled to it and have expressed it. We do not agree. It our right, and it's all good. I do not see why you need to feel it is personal towards you.

I know you do. As do i and everyone else. Just saying go ahead be rude and see what results you get. That is all i am saying.

[Paleogene Pals]

I'm not understanding where you are trying to take this thing. If Geowrong is blatantly ripping off other artists, they should be held accountable. It is really no different than someone stealing a car or wallet.

[Hynerpeton]

I did something and lets see if i can get through.

[amanda]

Forget it then. Be rude or etc see how far you get. Ok?

You mean similar to your current posts? You have your point of view, are entitled to it and have expressed it. We do not agree. It our right, and it's all good. I do not see why you need to feel it is personal towards you.

I know you do. As do i and everyone else. Just saying go ahead be rude and see what results you get. That is all i am saying.

Then look at it this way. You expressed yourself about this in both knock-off discussion threads and were upset most disagreed with you. We have gone over and over your opinion in the Geoworld thread but you were upset, so you actually opened a new thread about the same topic in order to once again express how distressing this all is to you. Because we may have missed your point in the other threads. You are the aggressive one in my view. I am not sure what you want? I have not condemned you for buying these, or other knock-offs. I do not think we are trying to "get anywhere", we as a forum are discussing our thoughts on the given situation. So what? What if Geoworld happened in? Big deal. Are you afraid they will stop producing or something? The bottom line here for me is that this is a much more civilized conversation about a legitimate concern than the Rebor or Battat things were. I am proud of our interactions here. I'm sorry if you feel personally singled out, it is not my intention, nor others I think. You just happen to be in the very minor minority here.

[tyrantqueen]

I'm not understanding where you are trying to take this thing. If Geowrong is blatantly ripping off other artists, they should be held accountable. It is really no different than someone stealing a car or wallet.

Lol, was that intentional? Freudian slip perhaps?

[Simon]

Frankly, while I have not been paying close attention to this thread, I think y'all are pretty much beating a dead horse by now.  So Geoworld's artists have used other artists' dinosaur drawings as models for their own dinosaur cards and models, huh? 

*YAWN*

The similarities are closer in some cases than others, but, in the end, its Geoworld's own artists who did the drawings for the products, as well as the sculpting of the figures.

If that figure is based on someone else's drawing, up to and including the paint job, that isn't a crime.  Its more like a compliment. 

This is NOT the same thing as recasting someone else's sculpt and passing it off as your own.

While I will never buy a Geoworld figure because a. they aren't accurate enough for me, and b. I am basically out of the collecting business, I for one do not see that they are doing anything here that is a crime (ie copyright infringement).

Remember, they are not hiding in a far off country where they can't be sued.  They are upfront and legit.  If any of the allegedly aggrieved artists believes that he has legal cause against them, well, all they have to do is hire a lawyer because Geoworld is right here.

This (series of) threads is now reaching that point where  its rapidly becoming repetitive and useless other than as an avenue for members to keep getting hotter and hotter under the collar until someone says something that "crosses the line". 

Give it a rest folks.  There are plenty of other more productive threads and new topics around ...

...just my 2 cents worth...

[tyrantqueen]

Hey guys, I got a response back from Brett Booth.

Here's my email:

Hi
Are you aware that a toy company has been using your Acrocanthosaurus image?

It's here: http://i39.servimg.com/u/f39/17/65/42/95/sam_2911.jpg

May I ask whether they have permission to do so? They may possibly have taken images from other artists and I am looking into it.

Thanks for your time

Here is his response

No they do not have permission to use that.

Let me see if they have contact information...

Thanks for letting me know!

He has emailed them...I wonder what will happen.

[ITdactyl]

Agreed, something needs to be done... and exposure of the topic in a forum is one way to go.
Reaching out to geoworld is another... The more "voices" they hear (especially from consumer groups) the better
Getting the attention of the concerned artists is another... (perhaps if they know that other groups support their plight, then they might consider legal action instead of a personal plea towards geoworld, which as some of you mentioned, tends to be ignored)

But I'll hang my neck here....
The topic has dragged on ad nauseam.  I for one would rather see more news, or reviews or opinions or stories... instead of more posts that say "stone geoworld, they are thieves!" (of course you didn't say that... but collectively, it is starting to give that impression.  I get it, stealing is wrong.  How's that ivory tower?).

Geoworld made a mistake.  Mistakes can be corrected.  There are apologies (to the aggrieved parties ONLY), settlements, the paying of respective fees or royalties, certifications, exposure for the parties concerned etc.  Geoworld as a business entity can and should make the proper moves to fix this.  I don't see why WE can't help nudge them in the proper direction.  However, their mistake doesn't give us the right to damn. 

[Hynerpeton]

Agreed, something needs to be done... and exposure of the topic in a forum is one way to go.
Reaching out to geoworld is another... The more "voices" they hear (especially from consumer groups) the better
Getting the attention of the concerned artists is another... (perhaps if they know that other groups support their plight, then they might consider legal action instead of a personal plea towards geoworld, which as some of you mentioned, tends to be ignored)

But I'll hang my neck here....
The topic has dragged on ad nauseam.  I for one would rather see more news, or reviews or opinions or stories... instead of more posts that say "stone geoworld, they are thieves!" (of course you didn't say that... but collectively, it is starting to give that impression.  I get it, stealing is wrong.  How's that ivory tower?).

Geoworld made a mistake.  Mistakes can be corrected.  There are apologies (to the aggrieved parties ONLY), settlements, the paying of respective fees or royalties, certifications, exposure for the parties concerned etc.  Geoworld as a business entity can and should make the proper moves to fix this.  I don't see why WE can't help nudge them in the proper direction.  However, their mistake doesn't give us the right to damn.

Exactly. Well said.

[Sim]

EDIT: Not trying to open a can of worms here but how do people feel about Papo? Aside from copying JP material they're now using Sideshow as a reference point for their work. The Carnotaurus is like a mini-me clone of the Sideshow model. How do members feel about this?

I've never been shy about my thoughts on Papo as derivative. But it reaches into that grey area--their models are (usually) clearly inspired by the work of others, but are they plagiarized? Should they somehow be held accountable or brought to bear as well?

And what of other brands? It's not uncommon to find a figure by Safari, CollectA or Schleich clearly modeled or inspired by existing depictions (to say nothing of Mojo's original dinos that appear to be re-worked early CollectA. To say nothing of almost every Liopleurodon having a familiar pattern.

I have the same thoughts as you, SBell.  If you do a google image search for the name of almost each of the animals in Safari's prehistoric crocodiles toob, prehistoric sharks toob and some in the prehistoric sealife toob you'll see a piece of artwork that the figure is clearly based on on the first page.  E.g. Pristichampsus, Scapanorhynchus, Cladoselache, Metriorhynchus, Sarcoprion, Edestus.  Sometimes both the figure and the art it's inspired by are on the same page!

I remember reading Safari's Oviraptor on nest figure was based on Luis Rey's art:


When Luis asked Safari about it, I think I read they sent him a box full of that figure!

There's a thread on this forum that has many other examples of figures clearly based off art: http://dinotoyblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=408.0

Geoworld using art or other figures as inspiration for their figures seems no different to what many other companies have done, e.g. Safari, CollectA, Schleich, and especially Papo.  Almost all Papo's figures appear to be clearly based off existing art!  Figures inspired by art has been happening for a long time.  Art inspired by figures seems to happen too.  I prefer it when a figure or art is the product of it's creator's good research and knowledge, and shows how they want to depict it.  I think being inspired by existing art can be okay, although I don't usually like it when a figure is heavily inspired by art.

I don't think it's right Geoworld uses other people's modified art on their info sheets, like how I believe knocking off figures is wrong.  As I said earlier, I can't see a difference between Geoworld figures being inspired by art and Papo, Safari, CollectA, Schleich, etc. figures being inspired by art.  Some of the responses in this thread and the Inspired by palaeoart thread I linked to make it seem like some people only have a problem with Geoworld using art as inspiration for their figures and not other companies doing the same, or at least they only express their disapproval of Geoworld doing it?

[Patrx]

For my part, the ethical concerns are with Geoworld's "info cards" which are, in many cases, near-direct reproductions of existing artworks. The figures themselves are a different matter, in the sense that they are brand-new sculptures based on other renderings.
The latter practice is less disconcerting to me on an ethical level. However, It is still a part of an overall lack of originality in palaeoart that does bear discussion.

[Pinkamena]

No they do not have permission to use that.

Let me see if they have contact information...

Thanks for letting me know!

He has emailed them...I wonder what will happen.

Would like to hear what they say back to him.

I think letting as many artists know as possible is a good idea. There is an almighty difference between taking art as inspiration and actually copying to the point it's 99% the same. No-one knows exactly what dinos look like, so there is definitely room for a bit of artistic licence, tied in with as much accuracy to fossils and environment as possible.

I am no expert at all on model dinos - I have a few that I like, and there are a few I hope to obtain soon. I have no idea about who sculpts what.

Yes this may be beating a dead horse, I haven't been a member long enough to be active in any of the old thread, but just maybe this is the thread Geoworld will look in on and give credit to the artists who are due it?

Ok I'm waffling now 

[laticauda]

 There is an almighty difference between taking art as inspiration and actually copying to the point it's 99% the same. No-one knows exactly what dinos look like, so there is definitely room for a bit of artistic licence, tied in with as much accuracy to fossils and environment as possible.

People will use existing artwork for inspiration, even borrowing color schemes and body positions.  At what point does it become a rip-off is the question.  Inspiration is not copying, it might mean using some of the ideas, but doing it your own way.  If they do use some one else's work, they should pay for it. 
When it comes to the said company, they need to focus on making better models/toys, because they are failing in my opinion.  Sometime some good old fashion constructive criticism goes a long way.

[Gwangi]

I've done a lot of thinking about it and the problem with Geoworld is this; they've put themselves on this pedestal with all these claims about being "paleontologist approved" and it's all BS, sorry to sound so blunt. Just look at this, taken off their web site...

All models in the Geoworld collection are scientifically accurate museum replicas of dinosaurs or prehistoric animals. Each model is sculpted by expert craftsmen under the supervision of Dr. Stefano Piccini, geologist and paleontologist, to ensure the correct shape, posture and proportions. Geoworld products are paleontologist and geologist approved!

It's just all smoke and mirrors. And I understand this is normal corporation behavior but Geoworld has gone as low as they can go. To take artwork from an up and coming amateur artist like our own forum member Sepp, make a model of it and then claim the above statement is just infuriating. They're not just copying JP dinosaurs here, or even high profile artists like Greg Paul and Luis Rey who's work is used in countless publications, they're doing Google image searches, picking an image and just stealing it, flat out stealing it.

We have a forum member here trying to start up their own line of figures, Brandem. Now what if Geoworld does a Google search on Poposaurus and finds an image of Brandem's model? What's to stop them from stealing that design? What if they decide to use the Spinosaurus Brandem made that was commissioned by Takama? This is not Papo copying Jurassic Park, this is Geoworld taking YOUR work. A little close to home right? A line has to be drawn somewhere.

Why the sudden passion here? It really was finding out that Geoworld took a depiction of Therizinosaurus from Sepp, one of our own members here, and reproduced it. This is a piece commissioned by another forum member! Is there a Geoworld model that can even claim any originality? The answer seems to be no.





http://artists-beware.livejournal.com/783596.html

[Hynerpeton]

Very cute. I see no stealing here.

[Gwangi]

Very cute. I see no stealing here.

Geoworld took a picture drawn by our own forum member and made a toy out of it without giving her any credit. They're now making money off of her design. How is that not stealing? Why don't you read Sepp's blog post about it and see what she thinks of it? Because really that is what matters here, she was the one stolen from. http://artists-beware.livejournal.com/783596.html

Did you even read what I wrote? Or comprehend it?

[tyrantqueen]

Gwangi, I share your frustration.