Jurassic World discussion (spoilers)

[Patrx]

I agree that the SFX of JP and TLW were better, but JW far surpasses JP3. I thought the SFX were passable.

Whoah, I dunno about this. The animatronics in JP3 are actually quite impressive, and I found the CGI less distracting than in JW or in TLW. TLW actually has a few moments where the effects just fall apart, like some awful compositing during the scene where the captured animals escape the InGen camp, or a net that disappears into the tyrannosaur's neck when Ludlow is killed.

[DinoToyForum]

Anyone else wonder why the aviary was a glass dome instead of a metal cage? That thing was one tropical storm away from releasing those angry Pterosaurs.

So that a helicopter could crash through it.

This is also why Masrani was a helicopter pilot, of course.

If you're looking for in-movie explanations you'll struggle to find them. It stems the back-to-front way Hollywood movies are written. A spectacular scene is conceived, e.g. helicopter crashing through glass building, exploding, releasing animals. Then the script is contrived to get us there. It's why everything that happens in Jurassic World was so predictable, and partly why the film failed to be an immersive experience for me - too many of the conveniences are right on the nose.

[stargatedalek]

Oh, and that poor assistant woman was totally refrigerated. That was just plain disgusting.

Movie needed more scenes like that. It was a shame everyone-who-died's death was not as elaborate.

Fixed that for you . That was probably one of my favorite scenes in the movie just for the diving pteranodon because they iced over so much of the rest of the pterosaur attack.

Anyone else wonder why the aviary was a glass dome instead of a metal cage? That thing was one tropical storm away from releasing those angry Pterosaurs.

Like similar exhibits in real life I would assume that they would have had a building to store them in. Even chain link aviaries can't protect the animals inside from weather, so during storms its typical to gather up all the birds and move them somewhere sturdy.

[triceratops83]

So that a helicopter could crash through it.
This is also why Masrani was a helicopter pilot, of course.

Reminds me of a term B-Movie website Jabootu used to explain silly movie decisions - IITS (It's In The Script).
Also, would the Pterosaurs be able to fly comfortably without updrafts and wind currents?

[DinoToyForum]

So that a helicopter could crash through it.
This is also why Masrani was a helicopter pilot, of course.

Reminds me of a term B-Movie website Jabootu used to explain silly movie decisions - IITS (It's In The Script).

Exactly.

[Doug Watson]

Oh, and that poor assistant woman was totally refrigerated.

Okay maybe I'm slow or something, but "refrigerated" I don't get it. Last I saw she got swallowed by the Mosasaur along with the Pterosaur. What do you mean by refrigerated?

[CityRaptor]

Apparently there is a trope for it:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StuffedIntoTheFridge
Although I do not know how it applies here other than her gruesome dead.

[Doug Watson]

Apparently there is a trope for it:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StuffedIntoTheFridge
Although I do not know how it applies here other than her gruesome dead.

Never would have got that.

[Simon]

I agree that the SFX of JP and TLW were better, but JW far surpasses JP3. I thought the SFX were passable.

Whoah, I dunno about this. The animatronics in JP3 are actually quite impressive, and I found the CGI less distracting than in JW or in TLW. TLW actually has a few moments where the effects just fall apart, like some awful compositing during the scene where the captured animals escape the InGen camp, or a net that disappears into the tyrannosaur's neck when Ludlow is killed.

A related thought - the lack of animatronics in JW is lamentable because no matter how "cool" the CGI dinosaurs look, they just do not look as real close-up as Stan Winston's TRex and Spinosaurus looked in the close up scenes from the first 3 movies.  Basically, CGI in this new movie became the "easy way out" for the filmmakers.

Yes, CGI is needed to make full-body-in-motion shots look more realistic, but the full-size TRexes (and Spino) animatronics just looked so much better in their closer-up shots, because, well because they were REAL!!

That's what made the first TRex scene from the original Jurassic Park so powerful - the damned thing was actually THERE!  The dark, rainy night helped to hide the shortcomings of the puppets, while maximizing the reality of looking a full-grown TRex in the eye (which was pretty damned terrifying even in the audience!!)  You just don't get the same feeling with CGI, no matter how well done it is.

I can guarantee you that the actors would say the same thing.  Even Robert DeNiro couldn't look as convincing looking at a pole where the CGI TRex will be placed later on as he would be if he were looking at a full-size Winston animatronic puppet.

[Gwangi]

Why do all the pterosaurs immediately fly out of the relatively small hole in the aviary, travel all the way across the island, and mercilessly attack every living thing they see? Yeah, I get that they were spooked by Frankensteinosaurus, but why didn't they simply hide in the surrounding trees or the mountains? Was no one ever feeding them? Was that Hoskins guy secretly training them for the military as well? If so, he did a much better job than he did with the raptors.

I don't want to see that movie, where the pterosaurs just hide? That sounds boring. The sequence was one of the best in the movie. If anything, the movie needed more tourists getting killed by dinosaurs.

Of course we all want to see tourists getting attacked, but sometimes action works better when it is punctuated. Inactivity doesn't have to be "boring" - I like my "boring" bits, darn it!

Let's compare to another film where prehistoric animals escape from their enclosures - I don't know, let's say, Jurassic Park . When the raptors escape they head straight for the trees. They then hunt Muldoon slowly, methodically. It adds to their character, ties in with preceding setup scenes, and raises tension and menace. Maybe audiences today might advise that this is "boring". Maybe the studio would listen. Then we'd have a very different series of raptor scenes on our hands. Another example from JP is the Dilophosaurus scene. It takes its time, the animal slowly reveals itself, curiously approaches Nedry to see if he's a meal and if it's worth the effort. And then the attack comes. Audiences today might advise that this is "boring". Maybe the studio would listen.

In both of these examples the creatures feel like real animals, and that goes a long way to making the events believable. That's exactly what Speilberg was going for in 1993, and it is part of what made it a success. It doesn't always have to be this way, but sometimes "boring" is better.

Jurassic World also damages itself in this very respect, in another example of the film trying 'to have its cake and eat it'. Owen makes a big thing of the Indominus "killing for sport" and puts forth an explanation. However, all meaning is stripped of this revelation and the explanation is undone when it transpires that all of the carnivorous creatures in the park kill for sport (with no explanation). The pterosaurs certainly aren't stopping to eat their kills, nor are the raptors, I don't think the rex is fighting Indominus to eat it. The mosasaur is essentially just a mouth so who knows if it only kills when it is hungry.

Why was Frankensteinosaurus' paddock so overgrown with vegetation that makes it incredibly easy for it to hide? And how exactly was it able to make all those claw marks on the wall without anyone ever noticing? There were security cameras all over the place. No one thought to check the footage?

To hide the animal from the audience? To build tension? To give the animal a comfortable place to live? I have lots of pet reptiles, they all have hiding places. No, I don't see some of them very often but they're comfortable. That's what matters.

Similar story-telling and practical considerations could have been applied to the pterosaurs when they escape.

I totally agree with all of that. And that's why I still regard "Jurassic Park" as a superior movie, by far a superior movie. But Supsy was not implying that the pterosaurs would hide in the trees and attack tourists from there, he simply said go hide in the trees from I. rex. I get tension in films. "Jaws", "Alien", "Predator"...these are among my favorite movies, all in part for the tension they create. Tension isn't boring, the pterosaurs behaving naturally in an action film is what would be boring. Yes, they probably would simply hide and they probably wouldn't attack humans at all honestly. There is a lot of room for improvement in "Jurassic World", I realize that. I still enjoyed it.

[Gwangi]

I agree that the SFX of JP and TLW were better, but JW far surpasses JP3. I thought the SFX were passable.

Whoah, I dunno about this. The animatronics in JP3 are actually quite impressive, and I found the CGI less distracting than in JW or in TLW. TLW actually has a few moments where the effects just fall apart, like some awful compositing during the scene where the captured animals escape the InGen camp, or a net that disappears into the tyrannosaur's neck when Ludlow is killed.

The animatronics were impressive, I'll give you that. I should have specified the CGI because that was my main beef with JP3. That said, even some of the animatronics in JP3 looked fake. I'm thinking about the Spinosaurus attack on the airplane. I don't know how they filmed it but it was either the lighting they used, or the camera but it honestly looked like a ride at Universal rather than an actual dinosaur attack. The Spinosaurus looked mechanical, it looked fake, and the set the scene was shot at looked like an obvious set. Watch it again, you'll see. I have to give credit to TLW because despite some issues like those you mention, it succeeded the most out of all the films in looking like the original film. Camera usage, lighting and the set all go a long way to making a scene look real, it's not just about the work that went into the creation.

Where CGI is concerned, I stand by my statement.

This...


Looks much better than this...



And this looks better than both of those (taking age into account)...

[SBell]

Apparently there is a trope for it:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StuffedIntoTheFridge
Although I do not know how it applies here other than her gruesome dead.

To be fair, not much, since her death was not motivating for a main character (a key part of fridging). In fact, none of the other characters even seem to really notice her death, or care.

It was just sadistic for the sake of sadism. What disturbs me is how other comments here are lamenting that other there were no other brutal, drawn out deaths. That just seems...odd. Nothing like this ever showed up in any other JP death--the most on-point was Udesky being injured, and then neck-snapped (like a real 'raptor would do...anyway) in JPIII. Most attacks came as jump scares followed by pans off or away, or immediate bite-and-swallows.

If JW is a horror movie, it's based on Frankenstein, not Halloween, and the deaths are meant as the final point of a mad-science system run amok. An elaborate video-game-inspired finishing move seems pointedly out of place.

[Gwangi]

Apparently there is a trope for it:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StuffedIntoTheFridge
Although I do not know how it applies here other than her gruesome dead.

To be fair, not much, since her death was not motivating for a main character (a key part of fridging). In fact, none of the other characters even seem to really notice her death, or care.

It was just sadistic for the sake of sadism. What disturbs me is how other comments here are lamenting that other there were no other brutal, drawn out deaths. That just seems...odd. Nothing like this ever showed up in any other JP death--the most on-point was Udesky being injured, and then neck-snapped (like a real 'raptor would do...anyway) in JPIII. Most attacks came as jump scares followed by pans off or away, or immediate bite-and-swallows.

If JW is a horror movie, it's based on Frankenstein, not Halloween, and the deaths are meant as the final point of a mad-science system run amok. An elaborate video-game-inspired finishing move seems pointedly out of place.

I will admit that I'm a huge fan of horror, and a bit of a gore hound. I realize it's not for everyone and not necessarily appropriate for a "kids" movie but I do enjoy stuff like that. Judge me how you will. I'm one of the only people I know that enjoys "Carnosaur". Don't think "Halloween", think "Alien". But "Jurassic World" is not a horror movie, it is a B-grade monster flick, and I like those too. "Jurassic World" was what last years "Godzilla" should have been.

Those who have read it know that the novel "Jurassic Park" is far darker and gruesome than the movie. And if Spielberg had not gotten the rights to "Jurassic Park" by a "mere few hours" we would have gotten the James Cameron version. I love the Speilberg movie, but I get the feeling I would have loved Cameron's too.

But when I saw the film, I realised that I was not the right person to make the film, he was. Because he made a dinosaur movie for kids, and mine would have been aliens with dinosaurs, and that wouldn't have been fair.Dinosaurs are for 8-year-olds. We can all enjoy it, too, but kids get dinosaurs and they should not have been excluded for that. His sensibility was right for that film, I'd have gone further, nastier, much nastier.

--James Cameron
http://collider.com/james-cameron-jurassic-park/

[Patrx]

The animatronics were impressive, I'll give you that. I should have specified the CGI because that was my main beef with JP3. That said, even some of the animatronics in JP3 looked fake. I'm thinking about the Spinosaurus attack on the airplane. I don't know how they filmed it but it was either the lighting they used, or the camera but it honestly looked like a ride at Universal rather than an actual dinosaur attack.

Good points there. What impressed me were the animatronic raptors in JP3; really convincing movements from those. I think one of the problems in the Spino attack was the plane fuselage, it was an obvious mechanical prop and made the whole scene looks manufactured.

Where CGI is concerned, I stand by my statement.

This...


Looks much better than this...



And this looks better than both of those (taking age into account)...

I'll agree to that. JP3's attempt at a majestic riverside scene turned out more like a nightmare 

[Gwangi]

Yeah, I'm always in favor of practical effects when they can be used. I was sad to see so little of it in JW when I honestly thought there would be more. In that arena alone, JP3 succeeds better. But that's about all it has going for it. The Velociraptors looked great, probably my favorite in the franchise based on overall design and appearance.

This...this was particularly awful too. Unfortunately it was our first introduction to the dinosaurs of JP3 and a premonition of things to come. And Sam Neil's awful line delivery..."my god, I'd forgotten". Bleh! Looks like "Zoo Tycoon".


And now I'm thinking of the awful green screen shot during the parasailing scene in the beginning. What an awful movie.

[Appalachiosaurus]

The fact that there was one animatronic in Jurassic World was %100 cost. Trevorrow said that he would of loved to have had more animatronics, but Universal didn't want the "unnecessary" spike in budget.

[SBell]

Apparently there is a trope for it:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StuffedIntoTheFridge
Although I do not know how it applies here other than her gruesome dead.

To be fair, not much, since her death was not motivating for a main character (a key part of fridging). In fact, none of the other characters even seem to really notice her death, or care.

It was just sadistic for the sake of sadism. What disturbs me is how other comments here are lamenting that other there were no other brutal, drawn out deaths. That just seems...odd. Nothing like this ever showed up in any other JP death--the most on-point was Udesky being injured, and then neck-snapped (like a real 'raptor would do...anyway) in JPIII. Most attacks came as jump scares followed by pans off or away, or immediate bite-and-swallows.

If JW is a horror movie, it's based on Frankenstein, not Halloween, and the deaths are meant as the final point of a mad-science system run amok. An elaborate video-game-inspired finishing move seems pointedly out of place.

I will admit that I'm a huge fan of horror, and a bit of a gore hound. I realize it's not for everyone and not necessarily appropriate for a "kids" movie but I do enjoy stuff like that. Judge me how you will. I'm one of the only people I know that enjoys "Carnosaur". Don't think "Halloween", think "Alien". But "Jurassic World" is not a horror movie, it is a B-grade monster flick, and I like those too. "Jurassic World" was what last years "Godzilla" should have been.

Those who have read it know that the novel "Jurassic Park" is far darker and gruesome than the movie. And if Spielberg had not gotten the rights to "Jurassic Park" by a "mere few hours" we would have gotten the James Cameron version. I love the Speilberg movie, but I get the feeling I would have loved Cameron's too.

But when I saw the film, I realised that I was not the right person to make the film, he was. Because he made a dinosaur movie for kids, and mine would have been aliens with dinosaurs, and that wouldn't have been fair.Dinosaurs are for 8-year-olds. We can all enjoy it, too, but kids get dinosaurs and they should not have been excluded for that. His sensibility was right for that film, I'd have gone further, nastier, much nastier.

--James Cameron
http://collider.com/james-cameron-jurassic-park/

Not judging anyone, just saying that in the context of this franchise gore and brutality have not been a major part.

[Gwangi]

The fact that there was one animatronic in Jurassic World was %100 cost. Trevorrow said that he would of loved to have had more animatronics, but Universal didn't want the "unnecessary" spike in budget.

"Jurassic World" had a $150 million budget. Compare that to "Transformers: Age of Extinction" at $210 million, or "Avengers: Age of Ultron" at $279.9 million and I think it did fairly well with the money it had.

Sbell, I get what you're saying. I realize that sort of thing is out of place in the JP franchise.

[DinoLord]

Another concept image:



I'm very curious as to what the Papo sculptor thinks of his pieces being used all over the place!

[tyrantqueen]

But when I saw the film, I realised that I was not the right person to make the film, he was. Because he made a dinosaur movie for kids, and mine would have been aliens with dinosaurs, and that wouldn't have been fair.Dinosaurs are for 8-year-olds. We can all enjoy it, too, but kids get dinosaurs and they should not have been excluded for that. His sensibility was right for that film, I'd have gone further, nastier, much nastier.

--James Cameron
http://collider.com/james-cameron-jurassic-park/

I like Cameron's films (except for Avatar). But I am glad he did not direct JP. I do not want aliens in Jurassic Park.