Jurassic World discussion (spoilers)

[tyrantqueen]

Off topic, but Gwangi, are those images in your avatar and signature supposed to be dinosaur troll faces?

[stargatedalek]

I could be wrong, but I think Gwangi's signature is from the Land of the Lost reboot a few years ago.

[tyrantqueen]

I could be wrong, but I think Gwangi's signature is from the Land of the Lost reboot a few years ago.

I thought they were from Speckles the Tarbosaurus or something like that.

I was kind of asking about his intent for using them in his signature, not where they came from

[Takama]

Yes thats a Scene from Land of the Lost.   One of a the few Dinosaur Comedys out there.




They are T.Rex and Allosaurus, and they were going to fight over food, but they turned there sights on the protagonists in that Screen cap.

[Gwangi]

Yup, "Land of the Lost". Not a popular movie I realize but I consider it a guilty pleasure. I often enjoy low-brow, immature comedies. I was actually looking for just a picture of the Allosaurus in particular because I really liked the creature design, and it's the only recent Allosaurus to appear in a movie that I can think of. "Dinosaur Valley Girls" may be the last one that featured it. I like that Allosaurus too incidentally. Anyway, I found this image and decided to go with it.

EDIT: The dinosaur in my avatar is the Schleich Allosaurus. Just there because I liked the head shot I took of the model. And it was also in my diorama entry.

[Plasticbeast95]

Allosaurus is such an underrated Dinosaur. You'd think it would be the ultimate crowd-pleaser, large size (not T. rex big, but big) for the awe factor, and it was possibly a pack hunter, for the fear factor. People feared the Velociraptor Nublarensis (the fan name for the raptor species in JP), imagine that, but truck sized. With horns, people love them some horned animals.

[Takama]

Finally someone Gets why i Like this films less and less every time i watch it.

http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-jurassic-world-brutally-killed-its-biggest-hero/

[Rain]

Finally someone Gets why i Like this films less and less every time i watch it.

http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-jurassic-world-brutally-killed-its-biggest-hero/

I agree that there was quite a bit of stuff in the film that contradicted stuff that was "stated' in the original but I also disagree with a lot of this. Sure the characters are a-holes but then again that's a bit more believable (yes I know we're talking about a movie where a guy trains raptors). You can't really expect everyone out there to be a perfect human being who isn't selfish at all. Yes Claire cares more about money than lives, no that doesn't change at the end but like I said earlier that's more believable and way less cliche.

As for sexism, the movie was not sexist. I don't know why but recently it seems that everyone's looking for something to nitpick about. Having a woman, who is quite possibly the second most important person on the island and the main character of the movie , save the day is not sexist at all. And obviously she's going to care about her nephews being safe... they are her nephews afterall.. Also, having a woman being eaten isn't sexist. It's just having a woman being eaten, simple as that. I highly doubt Collin Trevorrow intended to sneak in subtle hints that suggest women are inferior..
And no, I'm not saying the characters were perfect, they were far from it. Nor am I saying the movie matches up to JP, it simply doesn't. I'm just giving my 2 cents 

[suspsy]

I found the movie incredibly insulting to the Claire character, for precisely the reasons described in the Cracked article. And then there are Trevorrow's recent (and quite stupid) comments on gender equality in Hollywood:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rebeccatheodore/2015/08/27/colin-trevorrow-male-privilege-women-directors/

[stargatedalek]

I don't see anything sexist about this movie, It seemed pretty clear to me that Owen acted the way he did around Claire because of personal reasons regarding her, I felt nothing outwardly aggressive let alone misogynistic about his character. I will agree I felt it was kind of annoying how Claire "settled down and grew on the kids", but only from an annoying trope perspective. And this article seems pretty hypocritical in claiming that was sexist, and at the same time saying that she should have undergone more character development in that direction. But it is Cracked, so honestly an article that contradicts itself and ignores points from the actual film is what I'd expect.

I actually wish Zara's death had been more dramatic, they could have built it up and made her death actually important (whether plot wise or mood setting). It feels like that was the original plan, and then for some reason it was scraped, leaving us with a character who was strangely fleshed out but had little screen time.

As for the other article, Trevorrow may have understated the issue but I think that article was picking on him a little much.

[Tyrannosauron]

As for sexism, the movie was not sexist. I don't know why but recently it seems that everyone's looking for something to nitpick about. Having a woman, who is quite possibly the second most important person on the island and the main character of the movie , save the day is not sexist at all. And obviously she's going to care about her nephews being safe... they are her nephews afterall.. Also, having a woman being eaten isn't sexist. It's just having a woman being eaten, simple as that. I highly doubt Collin Trevorrow intended to sneak in subtle hints that suggest women are inferior..

The fact that sexism is not overt doesn't imply that sexism is absent, nor does the director's intention not to be sexist imply that his output is not sexist.

Focus on Claire first. The movie very strongly implies that she's a better person after the completion of her character arc than she was at the beginning. Consider, then, the start of her arc (as emphasized by the script):

• Career-minded and resistant to the idea of having children
• Resistant to male lead's influence

And compare it with the end of her arc:

• Family-minded (with a strong implication that she is no longer resistant to the idea of having children)
• Yielding to male lead's influence

The fact that her arc ends there, and that the end of the arc is the right place for her character to be, logically implies that her starting point was by comparison bad. The noted traits are therefore the wrong traits for a woman in Claire's position to have.

You might argue that Grant has pretty much the same character arc. Sure. The difference is in context: Grant's character arc doesn't reaffirm stereotypical gender roles, but Claire's does. Whether or not the scriptwriters or director intended that to happen is irrelevant; it's nevertheless what happened.

The argument against sexism might be stronger if there were any women in the movie that didn't conform to cliched gender stereotypes. There aren't. The only other female characters in the cast are Karen, Zara, and Vivian. Consider their defining character traits:

• Karen: Matronly, worried, nagging
• Zara: Shrill, matronly, nagging
• Vivian: Worried, supportive of authority figure

In a movie with four female characters, all four fit very neatly into stereotypical gender roles. Whether by design or by accident, it's nevertheless what happened.

The men in the movie also fit into stereotypical gender roles. This is not irrelevant to the sexism argument. It is a point of less practical importance, though, since those stereotypes are less harmful to boys than the female stereotypes are to girls (which is not to say that those stereotypes aren't harmful; just that they're less so).

I gave a philosophy of paleontology lecture just before JW was released. When it was done a 12-year-old girl and her parents came up to me asking for advice about what she should study to become a paleontologist. One of her concerns was how hard it would be to study science as a girl (being male myself, I had to admit that I had no idea). JW had four opportunities to provide her with an inspirational role model and squandered all those opportunities by reaffirming all the ideas she's heard before.

[Gwangi]

Finally someone Gets why i Like this films less and less every time i watch it.

http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-jurassic-world-brutally-killed-its-biggest-hero/

I agree that there was quite a bit of stuff in the film that contradicted stuff that was "stated' in the original but I also disagree with a lot of this. Sure the characters are a-holes but then again that's a bit more believable (yes I know we're talking about a movie where a guy trains raptors). You can't really expect everyone out there to be a perfect human being who isn't selfish at all. Yes Claire cares more about money than lives, no that doesn't change at the end but like I said earlier that's more believable and way less cliche.

As for sexism, the movie was not sexist. I don't know why but recently it seems that everyone's looking for something to nitpick about. Having a woman, who is quite possibly the second most important person on the island and the main character of the movie , save the day is not sexist at all. And obviously she's going to care about her nephews being safe... they are her nephews afterall.. Also, having a woman being eaten isn't sexist. It's just having a woman being eaten, simple as that. I highly doubt Collin Trevorrow intended to sneak in subtle hints that suggest women are inferior..
And no, I'm not saying the characters were perfect, they were far from it. Nor am I saying the movie matches up to JP, it simply doesn't. I'm just giving my 2 cents 

Lately people are looking for sexism in everything which to a degree is good (because Hollywood IS male dominated) but if you look hard enough for something you WANT to find, you'll find it. I didn't see the apparent sexism either. There is some banter between Clair and Owen but she hands insults right back at him. They behave like two people that know each other, with Owen being a Han-Solo type renegade man-child. Nothing wrong with that.

Sure, Clair's sister insinuates she should have children. As a person, who lives in a world where women are capable of having children I guarantee you that OTHER women who have had children always ask other women when they'll have kids. Or they'll tell them they should have kids. Raising a family is un-comparable to any other life experience so of course a woman that has kids is hoping her sister also has kids someday. No one is picking on Clair for being a business woman, they're just concerned for her happiness. If it was a man in her role, no one would give a crap. Because it's a woman though, it's sexism and that in and of itself is sexist. Did anyone care when Allen Grant decided he liked kids at the end of "Jurassic Park"? No, because he was a man. Career women can't decide they like kids too?

Clair is the hero of this story. Not only does she save Owen from a pterosaur, she also lets out the rex and saves him AGAIN as well as the children. She's the only character with a story arc. I loved Clair's character.

As for Owen. He's not really an a**hole. Well maybe a little but his intentions are always for the best. He deeply cares about the animals he works with. He's the first person to suggest killing the I. rex, he assists Clair with finding her missing nephews and calls for an evacuation of the island when everyone shoots the idea down. He's the only one that warns everyone about what they're doing wrong. I would be an a**hole too in that situation.

[Rain]

Sexism is present, but not in a bold way. I'm definitely not a young girl so what I say shouldn't be taken too seriously. But I don't think a kid, regardless of gender, would look that deep into it. What they'd see is a strong female lead character. One who has a very important job and saves everybody in the end. But once again, I'm no longer a kid so I may be completely wrong.

[suspsy]

Another point the Cracked article raises which I completely agree with is that Owen and Claire are directly responsible for the destruction of the park, the deaths of dozens of people, and the injuries of dozens more. By all rights, they both deserve to be looking at prison time for criminal negligence causing death, not to mention a mountain of lawsuits filed by the injured and the families of the deceased.

[Gwangi]

Another point the Cracked article raises which I completely agree with is that Owen and Claire are directly responsible for the destruction of the park, the deaths of dozens of people, and the injuries of dozens more. By all rights, they both deserve to be looking at prison time for criminal negligence causing death, not to mention a mountain of lawsuits filed by the injured and the families of the deceased.

Owen may have investigated the I. rex cage but it was not he who let it out, that would be the bumbling security guard. Anyway, while it may be a fad to rip on JW lets not forget that TLW had awful protagonists who were absolutely responsible for the death of every person in their expedition and the InGen team. But that movie is loved to death around here. Must be the nearly 20 year old rose-tinted nostalgia glasses at work.

[Gwangi]

Here we go, someone else that wants to defend Clair, and a woman at that. Glad I'm not the only one.
http://www.hypable.com/jurassic-world-claire-dearing-defense/

and another...

"And curiously, most commenters and reviewers seem to have missed the fact that by the end of the film, Owen and Claire switch roles as Damsel-in-Distress and Knight-in-Shining-Armor. When Indominus "becomes the new alpha" and gains control over the Velociraptor pack, Owen is essentially neutered as an action hero. Eventually, he ends up squeezing next to Claire's nephews as they desperately hide from Indominus and the Velociraptors. It is Claire who figures out that the only chance they have of defeating Indominus is adding a new figure into the equation—one with more teeth. She frees and baits the park's Tyrannosaurus rex, leading it to the rampaging dinosaurs and tricking it into fighting them. In this moment, all of her character "flaws" from the first half of the film become her greatest strengths. If she hadn't been an obsessively focused administrator she wouldn't have remembered that the Tyrannosaurus rex was close enough nearby to be a possible asset. If she hadn't been highly, almost neurotically intelligent she wouldn't have known that the Tyrannosaurus rex would instinctively challenge and fight Indominus upon contact. If she hadn't been headstrong, she wouldn't have dared confront one of the park's most dangerous creatures when all the men could do was cower in fear.

And, hey, she did it all in heels, too."

http://theyoungfolks.com/review/a-feminist-defense-of-claire-dearing-in-jurassic-world/57782

[Tyrannosauron]

Here we go, someone else that wants to defend Clair, and a woman at that. Glad I'm not the only one.
http://www.hypable.com/jurassic-world-claire-dearing-defense/
and another...
http://theyoungfolks.com/review/a-feminist-defense-of-claire-dearing-in-jurassic-world/57782

I'm sure that I won't win any friends with another mini-essay, so I'll just raise two points and call it quits for the night.

First, against the first article: yes, Claire has a character arc, but a character arc is only good if it ends with the character being stronger than at the beginning. That's not the case for Claire for reasons I pointed out earlier. To quote Edward Abbey, "growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell."

Second, against the second article: none of the causes or motivations that author attributes to Claire are established in the script or in the performance. They're not implied in any sense (logically, materially, or inductively) from what *is* in the script. One can't win an argument just by speculating oneself into being in the right.

Regardless of how my posts are coming across, I still really want to like JW. I just wish that I could un-see all the issues that hide themselves in plain sight.

[suspsy]

Another point the Cracked article raises which I completely agree with is that Owen and Claire are directly responsible for the destruction of the park, the deaths of dozens of people, and the injuries of dozens more. By all rights, they both deserve to be looking at prison time for criminal negligence causing death, not to mention a mountain of lawsuits filed by the injured and the families of the deceased.

Owen may have investigated the I. rex cage but it was not he who let it out, that would be the bumbling security guard. Anyway, while it may be a fad to rip on JW lets not forget that TLW had awful protagonists who were absolutely responsible for the death of every person in their expedition and the InGen team. But that movie is loved to death around here. Must be the nearly 20 year old rose-tinted nostalgia glasses at work.

Uh, I don't love it. Granted, there are some scenes in TLW that I enjoy, but I've always felt it was a poorly made film overall. And I definitely found that part of the plot that you mentioned very disturbing indeed. I thought it was extraordinarily kind of Tembo not to just let Malcolm, Harding, and Nick fall to their deaths.

As for the articles, Tyrannosauron already summed up their shortcomings for me.

[DinoToyForum]

I agree it is sexist, for the reasons Tyrannosauron so eloquently explained. At the very least it panders, in parts, to gender stereotypes. Such as the cowering damsel:

I guarantee you that OTHER women who have had children always ask other women when they'll have kids. Or they'll tell them they should have kids.

I'm sure women often do, as do parents of both sexes, but to state that women always do is a little bit, oh, I don't know, sexist.

[Pachyrhinosaurus]

Interesting, I never saw that as a "Cowering Damsel". I just thought it was a reference to Dr. Grant in JP///.