Best/Worst Documentaries

[stargatedalek]

Sadly Planet Dinosaur hasn't stood the test of time very well at all, despite being so recent the vast majority of it's content is already dated. Probably because they were so conservative with it. It's still high on my list for entertainment value though. Dinosaur Planet though, there's a series worth checking out. It's very dated and yet still has more feathers in it.

Jurassic Fight club failed in both respects, it was never accurate and it wasn't very entertaining. Most of the time was reusing the same 30 seconds of animation and a guy pretending he knew what he was talking about.

[HD-man]

2 of my favorite pre-WWD dino docs are Dinosaur! ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYe3r-wH_1s ) & The Ultimate Guide: TYRANNOSAURUS REX ( https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL473420881A34F18C&spfreload=10 ).

2 of my favorite post-WWD dino docs are Iguanas - Living like Dinosaurs ( https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLeKn-ZdSQle-GW9K0bezQs8L79cYbt4vQ&spfreload=10 ) & Prehistoric Predators: Terror Raptor ( http://www.56.com/u87/v_Njg1Mzc5MDg.html ).

Since others mentioned Sea Rex 3D: Journey to a Prehistoric World as the worst marine reptile doc (& it is: http://hubpages.com/education/Five-Dinosaur-Documentaries-to-Stay-Away-From ), I figured I should mention Sea Monsters: A Prehistoric Adventure as the best marine reptile doc ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FArZ1XtC110 ).

[HD-man]

For the Jurassic fight club, just for something I've seen, people tend to forget the fact that the first 45-50 minutes of the show was the hard evidence they had for the battle.

No offense, but not really ( http://tyrantisterror.deviantart.com/art/Jurassic-Fight-Club-Formula-136354754 ) ( http://albertonykus.deviantart.com/art/Paleogene-Fight-Club-188556839 ).

I thought that, from a fact point of view, Planet Dinosaur was superior to DR. As for the T.rex in it--why was the male larger?  At this point it's almost a given that females were larger and more robust.

I actually asked Hartman about that ( http://shartman.deviantart.com/journal/Dinosaur-Revolution-1-amp-2-airs-what-did-you-thi-256812165 ). He basically said that 1) they did that just to be different from other dino docs, & 2) they didn't know about Larson 2008.

Planet Dinosaur is good except for that one HUGE mistake they made of portraying sinornithosaurus as venomous.  tsk tsk.

They also depicted Microraptor w/splayed legs.

Plus, the show had the best theme music ever.

There's a thread about that: http://dinotoyblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=1790.0

[JurassicGeek09]

2 of my favorite pre-WWD dino docs are Dinosaur! ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYe3r-wH_1s ) & The Ultimate Guide: TYRANNOSAURUS REX (

Good call. Dinosaur! is one of the best ever, least of all because it features Phil Tippett's timeless animation work.

For the Jurassic fight club, just for something I've seen, people tend to forget the fact that the first 45-50 minutes of the show was the hard evidence they had for the battle.

No offense, but not really ( http://tyrantisterror.deviantart.com/art/Jurassic-Fight-Club-Formula-136354754 ) ( http://albertonykus.deviantart.com/art/Paleogene-Fight-Club-188556839 ).

LOL, poor George. He means well and he seems like a genuinely nice guy but he's hardly a professional paleontologist.

[Patrx]

Today's episode of "Thagomizers" seems relevant to this topic!

https://youtu.be/xl8bei4K6BM

[JurassicGeek09]

Today's episode of "Thagomizers" seems relevant to this topic!

https://youtu.be/xl8bei4K6BM

Good video. Budget constraints are the likely culprit in his final point. As to why the dinosaurs are usually conservative in their renderings and risks aren't taken with how they're shown, it's probably because the public will always see dinosaurs as these legendary beasts rather than living, breathing creatures so the producers want to draw people in who already have expectations of what they're going to see.

[goodlife18]

Documentaries have really gotten lazy these days. Rather than film or create fresh new footage, they keep recycling archive footage of older documentaries. A good example is the BBC documentary Deadly 60- One episode was about birds and dinosaurs and they kept recycling old footage from Walking with Dinosaurs. 

In the last day of the Dinosaurs, they also reused a lot of scenes from Clash of the Dinosaurs. Sure the dinosaurs were placed in 'different' environments but some of the scenes e.g. Battle between the T-rex , Ankylosaurus and Triceratops used the same motions as Clash of the dinosaurs.

The documentary Planet Dinosaur, which was supposed to be an update and successor to Walking with Dinosaurs failed to live up to the standards set by the latter. And it didn't help that the dinosaur sounds were constantly reused and were hardly realistic or impressive.

[DinoLord]

In the last day of the Dinosaurs, they also reused a lot of scenes from Clash of the Dinosaurs. Sure the dinosaurs were placed in 'different' environments but some of the scenes e.g. Battle between the T-rex , Ankylosaurus and Triceratops used the same motions as Clash of the dinosaurs.

That sounds awful. Clash was already as bad as it is - I counted no more than 15 unique scenes/animations per ~45 minute episode.

[Patrx]

...it's probably because the public will always see dinosaurs as these legendary beasts rather than living, breathing creatures...

I wouldn't say "always"! Perhaps I'm too idealistic, but I think that attitude can be corrected - partially with the aid of decent dinosaur documentaries.

[goodlife18]

I thought that, from a fact point of view, Planet Dinosaur was superior to DR. As for the T.rex in it--why was the male larger?  At this point it's almost a given that females were larger and more robust.

Not so fast. There isn't really hard evidence which confirms that the female T-rex was larger than the male.  It's simply a theory that has been popularized and spread so widely that people accept it as the absolute  truth.  And poor media reporting played a part in this. Just because the largest T-rex was named "Sue" people simply assumed that it was a female, when in reality, no one is absolutely sure that Sue is a female. 

The use of birds and reptiles to justify claims  that female T-rexes were larger than males is not really a strong argument because there are species of birds and reptiles where the males are larger than the females.

[goodlife18]

There is one Dinosaur documentary that I would consider to be almost on par with Walking with Dinosaurs. It's called "When Dinosaurs Roamed America" 
It didn't receive as much publicity but I still recommend it.

[HD-man]

Good call. Dinosaur! is one of the best ever, least of all because it features Phil Tippett's timeless animation work.

Thanks! Out of curiosity, what do you think of the others?

LOL, poor George. He means well and he seems like a genuinely nice guy but he's hardly a professional paleontologist.

Yeah, I've said more-or-less the same thing elsewhere (See "Bad": https://www.deviantart.com/jd-man/journal/SD-Good-semi-good-and-bad-dino-sources-1-351589315 ).

Not so fast. There isn't really hard evidence which confirms that the female T-rex was larger than the male.  It's simply a theory that has been popularized and spread so widely that people accept it as the absolute  truth.  And poor media reporting played a part in this. Just because the largest T-rex was named "Sue" people simply assumed that it was a female, when in reality, no one is absolutely sure that Sue is a female. 

The use of birds and reptiles to justify claims  that female T-rexes were larger than males is not really a strong argument because there are species of birds and reptiles where the males are larger than the females.

1stly (in reference to "It's simply a theory"), for shame: http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CA/CA201.html

2ndly, the evidence for said "theory" is actually pretty good: http://www.jplegacy.org/board/showpost.php?p=1073970&postcount=1505

It didn't receive as much publicity but I still recommend it.

& for good reason. For 1, WWD was the 1st of its kind. For another, while WDRA was a little better than WWD in a few ways (E.g. T.rex anatomy), it was a lot worse in many other ways (E.g. See the GSPaul quote).

Quoting GSPaul ( http://gspauldino.com/part5.html ):

Alas, producers of commercial dinosaur products continue to churn out low quality product that is either obsolete or improperly derivative. Dino documentaries and books have become so plentiful that they are no longer special and I do not try to keep up with them. There are also serious problems with quality and accuracy which often fail to meet the expectations of scientists. More about those problems here. I about kicked in the TV screen when one dino doc claimed that the brain of Tyrannosaurus was as large as that of a gorilla when its IQ was not all that much better than a croc's. And why are the theropods shown pausing to challenge their prey before they charge, when the actual focus of predators is to hit and overwhelm the victim before it knows what is happening? The low standards are not surprising considering how the media and press frequently carry product that promotes belief in the paranormal.

[goodlife18]

1stly (in reference to "It's simply a theory"), for shame: http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CA/CA201.html

2ndly, the evidence for said "theory" is actually pretty good: http://www.jplegacy.org/board/showpost.php?p=1073970&postcount=1505

Even if there is evidence, we also need to consider the possibility of it being wrong, even if the chances are probably low. http://atrox1.deviantart.com/art/SUE-Trex-FMNH-PR2081-443176381

& for good reason. For 1, WWD was the 1st of its kind. For another, while WDRA was a little better than WWD in a few ways (E.g. T.rex anatomy), it was a lot worse in many other ways (E.g. See the GSPaul quote).

Even if it was "a lot worse" in other ways, it is too extreme to bash it as a failure. Are there any other dinosaur documentaries after WWD that even comes close? Planet Dinosaur had plenty of publicity and was even touted as a potential successor to WWD but it ended up being a disappointment. When Dinosaurs Roamed America might not have been an equal to WWD but it was certainly better than Planet Dinosaur and various other Dinosaur documentaries in attempting to recreate the lifestyles of these majestic beasts.

[stargatedalek]

Dinosaur Planet is also really good. It has brief segments of "lets watch this person in a room talk about what we just saw demonstrated and bash Jurassic Park" but they are very brief and easily overlooked. It's science is also a lot better for its time than WWD, although now dated.

[HD-man]

Even if there is evidence,

No offense, but how familiar are you w/the actual evidence? I only ask b/c you don't seem to be very familiar w/it based on the above quote AWA your previous post. For future reference, you always wanna familiarize yourself w/the actual evidence as much as possible b-4 commenting on it.

we also need to consider the possibility of it being wrong, even if the chances are probably low. http://atrox1.deviantart.com/art/SUE-Trex-FMNH-PR2081-443176381

That's why I said "probably" & why Larson said "in all probability" (as opposed to "definitely"). Also, what does Sergey's deviation have to do w/this (other than the fact that it depicts Sue)? Besides the deviation itself, it's mostly just 2 Sergey fans talking about the 2 T.rex morphs w/little-to-no understanding of the actual evidence.

Are there any other dinosaur documentaries after WWD that even comes close?

Not when it comes to being a WWD-style dino doc. I'm not bashing WDRA "as a failure", just pointing out that it's not "almost on par with Walking with Dinosaurs". Even saying that WDRA is "certainly better than Planet Dinosaur" is an exaggeration given that WDRA is worse than PD for many of the same reasons why WDRA is worse than WWD.

[PaleoMatt]

I am begging for season 2 of wwd, it may never happen but i hope that the BBC has noted it as the amount of wwd stuff they talk about is crazy! But no episodes since 1999 makes me believe something secret may be in the works I really do hope so!

[goodlife18]

Even if there is evidence,

No offense, but how familiar are you w/the actual evidence? I only ask b/c you don't seem to be very familiar w/it based on the above quote AWA your previous post. For future reference, you always wanna familiarize yourself w/the actual evidence as much as possible b-4 commenting on it.

we also need to consider the possibility of it being wrong, even if the chances are probably low. http://atrox1.deviantart.com/art/SUE-Trex-FMNH-PR2081-443176381

That's why I said "probably" & why Larson said "in all probability" (as opposed to "definitely"). Also, what does Sergey's deviation have to do w/this (other than the fact that it depicts Sue)? Besides the deviation itself, it's mostly just 2 Sergey fans talking about the 2 T.rex morphs w/little-to-no understanding of the actual evidence.

Are there any other dinosaur documentaries after WWD that even comes close?

Not when it comes to being a WWD-style dino doc. I'm not bashing WDRA "as a failure", just pointing out that it's not "almost on par with Walking with Dinosaurs". Even saying that WDRA is "certainly better than Planet Dinosaur" is an exaggeration given that WDRA is worse than PD for many of the same reasons why WDRA is worse than WWD.

If you read the comments, they do make references to Dr Tom Holtz. And that's your opinion of WDRA.  For me, despite it's flaws it was still a decent attempt nonetheless.
If you feel that I am talking nonsense, just feel free to ignore. There is no need to have this urge to robustly rebut and respond further. 
On the whole, there is no need for you to be so blunt and caustic with your words and tone.

[HD-man]

If you read the comments, they do make references to Dr Tom Holtz.

As I've already shown in my last 2 posts, they clearly have little-no-understanding of the actual evidence. In this case, they said almost nothing about Holtz & what they did say is misleading. Holtz has been more for than against said "theory" both b-4 & after Larson 2008 ( https://books.google.com/books?id=vtZFDb_iw40C&pg=PA130&dq=%22robust+morph+tentatively%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi1sKjQ7tTKAhUEcz4KHVKuDKUQ6AEIHTAA#v=onepage&q=%22robust%20morph%20tentatively%22&f=false ) ( http://dml.cmnh.org/2008Aug/msg00024.html ). It's not definite, but it's the best "theory" we currently have to explain the 2 T.rex morphs. This is getting off topic, so I'll leave it at that.

And that's your opinion of WDRA.  For me, despite it's flaws it was still a decent attempt nonetheless.

I get that everyone here prefers different dino docs for different reasons. However, I'm clearly not talking about subjective stuff like that, but about objective stuff like WDRA's depiction of dinos.

If you feel that I am talking nonsense, just feel free to ignore. There is no need to have this urge to robustly rebut and respond further.  Let other people decide for themselves.
On the whole, there is no need for you to be so blunt and caustic with your words and tone.

You say that as if I'm singling you out when I'm clearly not. As indicated by my previous posts, I'm just doing the same as most everyone else here (I.e. Answering questions, correcting misleading/wrong things, offering constructive criticism). That's how it works in both internet forums & scientific discussions (good ones, anyway) & that's how we learn. If you don't like being corrected or getting answers that contradict your preconceived notions (Ie. Learning), then you don't have to participate in internet forums or scientific discussions, though I'm sorry if you feel that way. I'm also sorry if you thought I was being caustic, but I wasn't AFAICT. Blunt, maybe, but never sarcastic or bitter. I thought I made that clear when I said "No offense".

[HD-man]

In other news, I do believe that I have found the very worst dinosaur documentary of all time. Yes, even worse than Jurassic Fight Club combined with Clash of the Dinosaurs and Monsters Resurrected: Spinosaurus.

The video's no longer available, but that's OK b/c Switek watched it so we wouldn't have to: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/the-idiocy-fabrications-and-lies-of-ancient-aliens-86294030/?no-ist

It has brief segments of "lets watch this person in a room talk about what we just saw demonstrated and bash Jurassic Park" but they are very brief and easily overlooked. It's science is also a lot better for its time than WWD, although now dated.

Sampson is definitely the best part of DP. However, saying that "It's science is also a lot better for its time than WWD," is an exaggeration: http://dml.cmnh.org/2003Dec/msg00187.html

[stargatedalek]

It's not like WWD didn't have shrink wrapping,  and they didn't even attempt to feather anything. That was honestly the weakest episode of DP by a long shot so that's an unfair comparison. The feathering was very liberal for the time it was made, only a few years after WWD.