Shapeways psittacosaur issues ?

[amargasaurus cazaui]

I had been admiring Aarons model of the Psittocosaur on Postsaur's thread so I went over to Shapeways and ordered my own copy. I requested the frosted detail version at around 70.00.  Today they sent an email advising it had been printed but was broken off the stand, all three toes were broken and so was the tail, and would it be alright to send it as it is? Is this common practice to fill orders with damaged pieces, or is there an unstated buyer beware type rule for ordering the figures from this page? I was somewhat stunned they would even consider filling a seventy dollar order with a damaged piece, so I thought I might ask, if others have had a similar issue with this piece breaking in the frosted detail level? Any information or advice would be immensely appreciated. I remain unsure how to answer the question myself. I felt paying that price for a dinosaur model that it should be at least intact and unbroken, however perhaps there are more variables here that I am not familiar with

[Blade-of-the-Moon]

I personally would ask for a new one or a discount on the broken one if you don't mind fixing it up.

[amargasaurus cazaui]

I personally would ask for a new one or a discount on the broken one if you don't mind fixing it up.

Right that is somewhat How i see it. I intend to have the model painted so the concept of gluing it and then having it painted isnt outright offensive, provided all pieces are present and it is a straightforward enough problem to solve. You would think a discount would have been automatically given for accepting the broken piece, or the option suggested of a new one.
I had considered ordering the Krentz pieces next, to try my own hand at painting, but this has somewhat scared me off the start button for that project now.

[Aaron Doyle]

I wouldn't buy anything broken from them.  The fact that they would even ask such a thing is baffling.  But beyond that i would hold off on buying the model anyway.  I have fixed a few issues with it including the hands and will hopefully have the updated version available by the end of the day.  I'm still not sure what to do with the old version... I seriously doubt too many folks will want a slightly outdated model.  If it we're more obsolete it might carry a retro charm but as it is it's just modern with inaccuracies.

[amargasaurus cazaui]

I wouldn't buy anything broken from them.  The fact that they would even ask such a thing is baffling.  But beyond that i would hold off on buying the model anyway.  I have fixed a few issues with it including the hands and will hopefully have the updated version available by the end of the day.  I'm still not sure what to do with the old version... I seriously doubt too many folks will want a slightly outdated model.  If it we're more obsolete it might carry a retro charm but as it is it's just modern with inaccuracies.

My lady friend already paid for the model and was getting it for me as a gift. We specifically purchased it BECAUSE the hands were supposedly incorrect, as they would match the way Psittacosaur skeletons are mounted , and mine was done. If you reviewed the Scientist that built my Psittacosaur mount, and his comments in the supinated thread, he quite thoroughly and completely rebutted the entire idea and stated in his opinion that the dinosaur should indeed have pronated hands.
I admit I am fifty/fifty on the debate, but the central concept is my dinosaur mount was done using pronated hands, that would match the model.
I am curious what other issues you saw that you changed for the little guy? The only thing I saw a difference in comparing your work with the skeleton I bought was the degree of forward bend of the animal towards the ground over the hips. In my skeleton mount he sits somewhat higher and makes a different curve, than the model itself does.
As regarding Shapeways and their email, yeah, seemed quite odd to me as well and left me baffled. Why wouldnt they simply reprint the piece, unbroken and sell it as ordered, or state the case and offer a discount to take the damaged piece.

[postsaurischian]

  Great to have you back on board, Aaron. I can't wait for your new projects .

To me the Psittaco is pretty perfect .
BTW: I have two versions (garrattized & copperized) ......





I would NEVER buy a broken model from Shapeways - that's really an impudent offer .
Both of mine are white, strong & flexible material, which I recommend for the Psittacosaurus. Some models even survived falling down 1.5 meters .
I'm not a fan of the frozen detail material.

[Seijun]

Aaron, maybe you could go with a semi-semi-supinated hands? As I understand it, later ceratopsians (like triceratops) had semi-supinated hands, but it was not as strong as in therapods. Psittaco was a very early ceratopsian, so it would make sense to me for its hands to be at east be somewhat supinated.

[Himmapaan]

I still don't like the term 'supinated' in this context.  But I digress, and that's entirely my own personal bugbear. 

I'm surprised Shapeways made you that offer instead of offering to replace it or give you the broken one free. It seems services have changed since the price rises and the change in shipping costs. 

On a related note, a Krentz 1:70 T.rex I bought a while ago arrived with a strange split in its belly. I should have asked for some compensation regarding that, but it escaped me and it is now much too late.

[amargasaurus cazaui]

I still don't like the term 'supinated' in this context.  But I digress, and that's entirely my own personal bugbear. 

I'm surprised Shapeways made you that offer instead of offering to replace it or give you the broken one free. It seems services have changed since the price rises and the change in shipping costs. 

On a related note, a Krentz 1:70 T.rex I bought a while ago arrived with a strange split in its belly. I should have asked for some compensation regarding that, but it escaped me and it is now much too late.

The email was sent to my lady friend who purchased the dinosaur. This is a copy and paste verbatim of their response to her.

We recently printed your models "Psittacosaurus (12th scale hollow)",
but unfortunately the Psittacosaurus has broken off the stand,
the three toes are broken off, and the tip of the tail is broken (see attached photos).
If you deem this an easy fix, may we ship it to you as is?
Let me know how you'd like to proceed and I'll get right on it!
Regards,


I removed the representatives name at the end of the text, to protect that aspect of the issue. Other than that, this was a verbatim of their response. As the dinosaur was ordered in frosted detail at the 70 dollar price range, and was my first shapeways order, I opened this thread to determine if this was normal practice and if others are having this experience.
Both my lady friend and I had the same reaction. For seventy dollars it needs to be a solid , unblemished figure, intact and as offered. She emailed them a few minutes ago requesting that as the dinosaur is a gift it would require reprinting and sent as ordered.
  The breakage of the figure sounded quite serious as worded. Broken from the stand, all three toes broken off as well as the tail end. What somewhat confuses me is why the rep did not at least offer a partial refund or return. I am just unsure who in their thinking would agree to accept a piece that badly damaged when paying for a new item. The thing that made me post the entire dilemna here is I was wondering if i had tacitly agreed to accept less than acceptable normal standards would be,  when agreeing to the frosted material, rather than the strong and safe.

[amargasaurus cazaui]

In fairness to Shapeways, once my lady responded with her request for a new figure that was not broken, they responded promptly stating they would get right on it, and gave her no hassle or argument. So apparently the figure will be redone, unbroken this time. Figured I would follow up and state clearly the case for them as well.
Just confusing why they would have asked her to accept something broken to begin with.

[brontodocus]

As impudent as it may seem at first sight (and I still don't believe it's a good idea even offering this in case of damage) they were probably thinking about that a replacement - especially in Frosted Ultra Detail - takes some time. But on the other hand, why didn't they just offer to keep the defective one and send a new one without extra cost as soon as it's done. Just because that's what they did for others here in the past.

[amargasaurus cazaui]

As impudent as it may seem at first sight (and I still don't believe it's a good idea even offering this in case of damage) they were probably thinking about that a replacement - especially in Frosted Ultra Detail - takes some time. But on the other hand, why didn't they just offer to keep the defective one and send a new one without extra cost as soon as it's done. Just because that's what they did for others here in the past.

Tonight we heard back from Shapeways. They seem to be saying they cannot print Aarons model at all now due to its weak attachment at the base. Here is the text.



I checked with production and they say that the model will break at the toes if reprinted.

It's just too heavy for the connection, something they didn't foresee in checking.

If this model was connected to the stem with both feet it should be printable.

However, right now it is just too fragile.

With that being the case, your options at this time are to:

1.) Have the model shipped as is (with a discount coupon worth 10% of the model price)
2.) Issue a coupon to apply towards a new order.
3.) Issue a refund for the order.

Let me know how you'd like to proceed and we'll get the ball rolling!

Regards,

I admit to being rather shocked. They offer something for sale they cannot produce and have not checked to verify if its even possible?Seems like bad business to me. I am unsure if they are saying they cannot produce it at all or just in the frosted material. My response was to inquire precisely that question and if it can be printed in Strong and white, to do so and use the extra amount paid to order some Krentz pieces.
However given the wording it seems they are saying either take the broken one and ten percent discount, or take a refund and get something else. Thoughts? Aaron I really wanted your model too, This is becoming a real dilemna

[copper]

i would see and ask if it can be printed in white strong & flexible material, since i think most of who own the model have it in that material : P

[amargasaurus cazaui]

i would see and ask if it can be printed in white strong & flexible material, since i think most of who own the model have it in that material : P

Right Copper. We are on the same exact page and that is what I asked for too. If they cannot print it in the white and strong, as his email suggests.....I will be forced to take the damaged piece at far higher rate than I think fair for the amount of breakage.

[Himmapaan]

Coincidentally enough, I've recently had an accident with my Psittacosaurus (in WSF), which fell and broke precisely where the toes meet the base. I find it is a rather trickier repair than anticipated. Although the break is clean, the surface for gluing and re-attaching is so small, it is unable to carry the weight of the entire model whilst the glue takes time to dry. Even with me holding the model and base together for several minutes, the attempt has singularly failed.

I might see if I can try the baking soda method...

[Aaron Doyle]

Sorry about all of this guys.  I and around 10 others have had this model printed successfully, and I know that at least mine has held up.  You would think if they were having trouble with the model printing or being fragile in this area they would notify me about it, or at least make the model unavailable so no one else orders it.  Thank you all for bringing this to my attention though.  I'll take the model down until I can come up with a fix for this issue.  I'll have to be more careful about the foot and base designs in the future.

[amargasaurus cazaui]

Sorry about all of this guys.  I and around 10 others have had this model printed successfully, and I know that at least mine has held up.  You would think if they were having trouble with the model printing or being fragile in this area they would notify me about it, or at least make the model unavailable so no one else orders it.  Thank you all for bringing this to my attention though.  I'll take the model down until I can come up with a fix for this issue.  I'll have to be more careful about the foot and base designs in the future.

Ugh that is what I had not wanted to happen, or at least not yet. I had already paid and now with the model gone they will likely refuse to print it in the white and strong for me . So I will have to either accept a broken one that I cannot repair or do without. I had really wanted the dinosaur too.

[Aaron Doyle]

Ugh that is what I had not wanted to happen, or at least not yet. I had already paid and now with the model gone they will likely refuse to print it in the white and strong for me . So I will have to either accept a broken one that I cannot repair or do without. I had really wanted the dinosaur too.

Oh man, this is a big mess.  I'll leave it up until you get yours the.  In all honesty it should be fine in the WSF.  Mine has taken several falls, and while I'm sure that area is a vulnerable point the only thing to break off of mine is a single quill tip.

[amargasaurus cazaui]

Ugh that is what I had not wanted to happen, or at least not yet. I had already paid and now with the model gone they will likely refuse to print it in the white and strong for me . So I will have to either accept a broken one that I cannot repair or do without. I had really wanted the dinosaur too.

Oh man, this is a big mess.  I'll leave it up until you get yours the.  In all honesty it should be fine in the WSF.  Mine has taken several falls, and while I'm sure that area is a vulnerable point the only thing to break off of mine is a single quill tip.

What you said seems accurate. The other members are saying the piece in the strong and white material should be alright. That is what I asked them to do. Perhaps they should just make it so it isnt availible in the thinner walled version at higher detail, and still allow sales with the material that works seemingly well.
I do appreciate it Aaron, just allow me a day or two to get them to print one for me and I will post when they do.I think thats awesome of you to do that for me

[Himmapaan]

Sorry about all of this guys.  I and around 10 others have had this model printed successfully, and I know that at least mine has held up. 

I am one of them! Mine printed out fine in WSF and I have had it for close to a year, I think. It's just unfortunately suffered an accident and I thought it might be worth mentioning that the break was almost identical to Amargasaurus'.

I'm going to try the baking soda method and report back to see whether that works in repairing it.