Top 10 dromaeosaurid and troodontid toys [Complete]

[Faelrin]

I mean technically they are action figures and toys in a sense (like other collector tailored action figures like NECA's), they just aren't being marketed for children because of the many small pieces and probably the delicate nature of them too.

[Sim]

The suggestion of having a poll for feathered representations, and one for featherless ones is interesting.  However, I wouldn't be interested in a poll for featherless representations only, and so I wouldn't make that one.  I also prefer the idea of having a Velociraptor+Deinonychus poll, and one for other dromaeosaurids+troodontids, as I think they would be more like other Top 10 polls which have been for one or two animals (e.g. Tyrannosaurus, Triceratops, Allosaurus, Apatosaurus+Brontosaurus) or a group excluding a more popular member (e.g. non-Tyrannosaurus tyrannosaurs) in having modern and retro representations in one poll.  Another thing to consider is that outdated representations of dromaeosaurids aren't just featherless ones, there are feathered ones too such as the ones that lack a part or all of the wing feathers.  I feel polls not separating feathered and featherless representations would better reflect the gradation of change in the representation of dromaeosaurids (and troodontids) like previous top 10 polls have for other types of animals.  Also, I'm not sure if the Primeval raptor would really fit in either a feathered or featherless poll.

[...]Plus, "Feathered Dromaeosaurs" reads better than "Dromaeosaurs that aren't Velociraptor or Deinonychus".

For the record, the title I was thinking of for the second poll was "Top 10 dromaeosaurid and troodontid toys (excluding Velociraptor and Deinonychus)".  I don't have a problem with this title and personally I find this sounds better than a Top 10 toys poll for "Feathered dromaeosaurids" or whatever would be used to refer to featherless representations.  Modern and retro representations haven't been separated before in previous top 10 polls, which has allowed the top 10s to show popular figures for the animals over all the time they have been represented, and I think this is something that has value.  This is just my opinion on this, not a criticism, I appreciated all of your post.

[Gwangi]

It's simple really, you wouldn't have a featherless poll. It would be "Scaly Dromaeosaurs". So odd stuff like the Primeval raptor that are predominantly scaly would fall into that category, regardless of its scant feathering.

It's difficult to compare this poll with past polls where retro and modern reconstructions were lumped together. Many of those polls consist of a single genus, not an entire group. There are exceptions but those exceptions all include animals rarely produced (Triassic dinosaurs, basal ceratopsians). And in those polls the outdated reconstructions mostly concern posture. The addition of feathers on what was once thought a featherless animal completely changes it. Few people care that Tyrannosaurus stopped dragging its tail, it doesn't change the look of the animal in a significant way. And obviously the outdated dromaeosaurs are still prevalent in pop culture, as much as we might hate it.

What you'll get in a poll that lumps feathers and scales together is a voter bias. People will vote for only feathers, regardless of sculpt quality, because they're voting for accuracy (which is fine). Others will vote based on nostalgia. Some will probably only vote for the BotM, there are enough that you could. I think a dromaeosaur poll should be the exception to the other polls where the stark contract between retro and modern is acknowledged. I would hate to see great sculpts like the Bullyland Deinonychus or the Greg Wenzel Velociraptor get lost in the fluff.

If you don't want to do two polls that's understandable, I suppose I could do the scaly poll. But this is your project, so it's up to you. I'm just trying to share my own thoughts on the matter to try and help make this easier for voters and for you, since you have the task of putting all of these suggestions in a poll.

The thing I don't like about a Velociraptor+Deinonychus poll is, why? Why not just do a separate poll for each genus or lump Deinonychus with the other dromaeosaurs?

[Faelrin]

Another figure that might be worth adding to the poll (assuming it is out yet), would perhaps be the new Mojo Deinonychus. It isn't perfect, but pretty good compared to Mojo's previous models.

[Sim]

I think a dromaeosaur poll should be the exception to the other polls where the stark contract between retro and modern is acknowledged. I would hate to see great sculpts like the Bullyland Deinonychus or the Greg Wenzel Velociraptor get lost in the fluff.

I'm not sure that would be achieved by having a feathered and a scaly poll, since if that was what was done I think the outdated feathered versions might not get the same chance as the scaly versions.  I get the impression that for you there's a clear division between scaly and feathered representations of these animals.  I don't feel this way about it though, I see a gradation with the feathered versions that lack wing feathers being intermediate between scaly and winged feathered representations.  As for your comparison to past top 10 polls, the Tyrannosaurus one had both scaly and at least one feathered version in the top 10 from what I can remember, and in cases where I see people who don't like feathered dinosaurs, generally they feel the same about feathered T. rex and feathered dromaeosaurids.  There's quite a few new feathered T. rex toys of fairly high quality now, if you were to do a new top 10 T. rex toys poll, would you include both feathered and scaly versions?

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I've estimated how many figures would go in the two polls I suggested, and I do expect there would be a mix of feathered and scaly versions in a top 10 Velociraptor+Deinonychus poll.

The thing I don't like about a Velociraptor+Deinonychus poll is, why? Why not just do a separate poll for each genus or lump Deinonychus with the other dromaeosaurs?

I gave my reasoning for this in the "Top 10 figures polls - guidelines & poll ideas", when I was asking about it.  This is what I said there:

If two polls were made, I think it would be better for one to be for Velociraptor and Deinonychus rather than just Velociraptor, since the Jurassic Park franchise Velociraptor which are represented in figures are basically based on Deinonychus for anatomy and Velociraptor for the name.

So the Jurassic Park franchise Velociraptor are both Velociraptor and Deinonychus in a way.

But this is your project, so it's up to you. I'm just trying to share my own thoughts on the matter to try and help make this easier for voters and for you, since you have the task of putting all of these suggestions in a poll.

Okay, I've worked out which figures would go in the various poll options and they are listed below:

If a feathered and scaly poll were done:
The feathered poll would include 34 figures with A LOT of different species.
The scaly poll would include 16 figures, which are all Velociraptor or Deinonychus except for three Utahraptor and a Stenonychosaurus.

If a Velociraptor+Deinonychus poll and a poll for other dromaeosaurids and troodontids were done:
The Velociraptor+Deinonychus poll would include 22 figures, representing figures from retro to modern and of different kinds (regular toys, action figures, miniatures).
The other dromaeosaurid+troodontid poll would include 28 figures of a lot of different species, with again figures from modern to retro (and the retro aren't only scaly, there's also the outdated Microraptor figures for example), and again lots of different types of figures are included.

I've given it a lot of consideration, and I really feel the two polls I suggested would be the best way to go ahead with this.

[Gwangi]

I'm not sure that would be achieved by having a feathered and a scaly poll, since if that was what was done I think the outdated feathered versions might not get the same chance as the scaly versions.  I get the impression that for you there's a clear division between scaly and feathered representations of these animals.  I don't feel this way about it though, I see a gradation with the feathered versions that lack wing feathers being intermediate between scaly and winged feathered representations.

Yeah, my distinction isn't that complicated. If it has more feathers than scales, it's feathered. If vise versa, it's scaled. I think the short list process would eliminate the majority of intermediates because there aren't a lot of good ones anyway. I think you're looking a bit far into this honestly.

As for your comparison to past top 10 polls, the Tyrannosaurus one had both scaly and at least one feathered version in the top 10 from what I can remember, and in cases where I see people who don't like feathered dinosaurs, generally they feel the same about feathered T. rex and feathered dromaeosaurids.  There's quite a few new feathered T. rex toys of fairly high quality now, if you were to do a new top 10 T. rex toys poll, would you include both feathered and scaly versions?

With the T. rex we were able to create a manageable short list without much drama. If this problem existed for that poll I may have managed it differently, but it worked itself out fairly well and I would do it the same way if I did it today too. And there still isn't anything inaccurate about a scaly T. rex, not like with the dromaeosaurs which we're positive about.

So the Jurassic Park franchise Velociraptor are both Velociraptor and Deinonychus in a way.

I suppose, but I would just go by the name given to the toy, in which case there aren't very many Deinonychus toys out there.

I've given it a lot of consideration, and I really feel the two polls I suggested would be the best way to go ahead with this.

Fair enough, you do your thing. I'll vote either way.

[BlueKrono]

It would be hard to make a distinction. What if one has wing and tail feathers, but none on the body? Is that 50/50 or what...? Two of my favorites are the SEGA Dinosaur King dromaeosaurs. However the polls end up getting divvied up I'd like to see them included. They each just have a crest of feathers on the head, which while not accurate to life is still a cool look.

[Sim]

It would be hard to make a distinction. What if one has wing and tail feathers, but none on the body? Is that 50/50 or what...? Two of my favorites are the SEGA Dinosaur King dromaeosaurs. However the polls end up getting divvied up I'd like to see them included. They each just have a crest of feathers on the head, which while not accurate to life is still a cool look.

You make a good point about it being hard to make a distinction in some cases, I agree with that.  I don't feel I can justify splitting the poll into one for feathered and one for scaly, for the reason you've given and for other reasons which I've given previously in this thread.  I've considered the different options and the only options I can support is either a poll for all dromaeosaurid and troodontid figures, or Velociraptor+Deinonychus in one poll, and other dromaeosaurids and troodontids in another poll.

[Gwangi]

I think if those are the options then I would choose to just do them all in one poll. The short list thus far isn't much longer than that for the T. rex poll. It will be harder to vote but I suppose that will add to the fun.

Also add the Kaiyodo Animatales Kitadaniryu, if it's a dromaeosaur or troodontid. Google results only come back with the figure itself.

[BlueKrono]

I would also vote for just one poll. May the best raptor win.

[DinoToyForum]

Just chiming in re: high-end statues, which in my opinion includes Rebor, Beasts of the Mesozoic, Sideshow. My preference is to exclude them and this is a rule of thumb we've applied to date. The poll will become meaningless if we include these statues. Like a boxing match between a heavyweight and a lightweight. We can always have a separate poll for statues.

I think the dividing line is pretty obvious and I like the suggestion above that the deciding factor could be whether you would give one to a child. Excluding 0-3 of course, toys with small pieces like Kaiyodo and Kinder Eggs wouldn't be suitable for a very young child.

[Faelrin]

The Beasts of the Mesozoic figures are action figures though, no different from something offered by NECA or Figma. I can't ever recall something with that much articulation being offered as a statue either. Though I get your point about them being high end collector items (although in my case still affordable, same goes for the Rebor models, unlike statues offered from Sideshow or Chronicle Collectibles). Though if they (along with the Rebor Deinonychus clan) are to be excluded from the poll, there goes like half my planned votes. I suppose that still leaves the Jurassic Park, Safari Ltd, and Papo figures though. Maybe a few others.

Interestingly without the BotM figures, the number of scientifically accurate dromaeosaurid figures probably goes down by half (if not more). At least Safari Ltd has a great Velociraptor, and Papo's is decent, although it has a few issues. The upcoming Mojo Deinonychus is okay, but still lacks the primaries, and maybe a few other issues. I honestly wish CollectA would release a more accurate take on a dromaosaurid. I'm really surprised they haven't since they've upped their game yet.

[DinoToyForum]

The Beasts of the Mesozoic figures are action figures though, no different from something offered by NECA or Figma. I can't ever recall something with that much articulation being offered as a statue either. Though I get your point about them being high end collector items (although in my case still affordable, same goes for the Rebor models, unlike statues offered from Sideshow or Chronicle Collectibles). Though if they (along with the Rebor Deinonychus clan) are to be excluded from the poll, there goes like half my planned votes. I suppose that still leaves the Jurassic Park, Safari Ltd, and Papo figures though. Maybe a few others.

Interestingly without the BotM figures, the number of scientifically accurate dromaeosaurid figures probably goes down by half (if not more). At least Safari Ltd has a great Velociraptor, and Papo's is decent, although it has a few issues. The upcoming Mojo Deinonychus is okay, but still lacks the primaries, and maybe a few other issues. I honestly wish CollectA would release a more accurate take on a dromaosaurid. I'm really surprised they haven't since they've upped their game yet.

I looked up Figma and I'd exclude them from our polls too (if they made dinos) for the same reason. Just because they are called "Action Figures" it doesn't make them "toys" (in the sense that they are not meant to be played with). They should really be called 'articulated statues' in my opinion. This is all probably a matter of semantics, so let's not dig too deep. It's why we should focus on the question "would you give it a kid?".

An Artist Mannequin is another example of an articulated statue that isn't a toy.

[Faelrin]

I suppose it is a matter of semantics, it's just that I've always seen those things called action figures (at least in the time I've been collecting them), even though they are marketed towards adult (and/or teenager) collectors, and not younger children. You make a good point that they are not really toys, if they are not intended to be played around with as such. Perhaps a more inclusive word would be (adult) collectible (which would include the high end action figures, statues, and models, etc)?

Actually come to think of it I do think a poll on these items could be interesting. While this is the dinotoyforum, higher end collector's items are often discussed here, and I think it would be interesting to see how some of these items could compare or be favored. Though I wonder what would count in such a case? Only things that have been mass produced (or at least a large enough quantity)? Or would resin model kits possibly be included as well? Granted I don't know if such a poll would be made, this is all just some speculation.

[Sim]

I'm happy to see the new discussion about what "high-end" models shouldn't be included in the poll, as I was planning to say more about this once the matter of whether to split the poll had been decided on.

What I've been thinking is Rebor models to me appear to have production standards that are so high with regards to their paintjob, that it would be unfair to include them in a poll with "toys".  Even Papo's figures sometimes suffer from sloppy paint.

I was inclined to include the Beasts of the Mesozoic figures in this poll as although they are "high-end" like Rebor figures, I seemed to remember them being referred to as "toys" and the creator of these figures saying they were made in a way that children could also play with them, even though they were primarily intended for adults.  Based on what I've seen others share, some BotM figures have had quality issues in their paintjobs.  So with all the above considered I though they would be appropriate for this poll.  However, thinking about it now, the extent of quality issues in the paint seems to have been quite limited.  In any case, I can see how it would be unfair to include BotM figures in a poll with "toys" making them (and Rebor) more appropriate for a "statues" or "high-end" poll.  The price of the BotM figures is very similar to that of Rebor figures, and I think this can be seen as reflecting a difference between a "statue" and a "toy".

I find myself agreeing with Dr Admin about "high-end" models not being appropriate for this poll, so I'm going to remove the BotM figures from the shortlist and I won't add the Rebor figures to it.  This also makes it much easier for me to decide to do one poll for all dromaeosaurid and troodontid toys, which is the choice I had started to favour again.

[DinoToyForum]

I'm happy to see the new discussion about what "high-end" models shouldn't be included in the poll, as I was planning to say more about this once the matter of whether to split the poll had been decided on.

What I've been thinking is Rebor models to me appear to have production standards that are so high with regards to their paintjob, that it would be unfair to include them in a poll with "toys".  Even Papo's figures sometimes suffer from sloppy paint.

I was inclined to include the Beasts of the Mesozoic figures in this poll as although they are "high-end" like Rebor figures, I seemed to remember them being referred to as "toys" and the creator of these figures saying they were made in a way that children could also play with them, even though they were primarily intended for adults.  Based on what I've seen others share, some BotM figures have had quality issues in their paintjobs.  So with all the above considered I though they would be appropriate for this poll.  However, thinking about it now, the extent of quality issues in the paint seems to have been quite limited.  In any case, I can see how it would be unfair to include BotM figures in a poll with "toys" making them (and Rebor) more appropriate for a "statues" or "high-end" poll.  The price of the BotM figures is very similar to that of Rebor figures, and I think this can be seen as reflecting a difference between a "statue" and a "toy".

I find myself agreeing with Dr Admin about "high-end" models not being appropriate for this poll, so I'm going to remove the BotM figures from the shortlist and I won't add the Rebor figures to it.  This also makes it much easier for me to decide to do one poll for all dromaeosaurid and troodontid toys, which is the choice I had started to favour again.

Sounds good to me. 

[Sim]

I've updated the first post of this thread with suggested figures from Reply #1 to Reply #7, and removed the BotM figures from the shortlist.  I've also added the Walking With Dinosaurs Troodon figures to the shortlist.  I'll look at the other replies for suggestions to add, soon.  I'm also extending the time before the poll is made by another week.

[Sim]

@BlueKrono: Are the Sega Dinosaur King dromaeosaurs you referred to the Deinonychus and Megaraptor?

[BlueKrono]

@BlueKrono: Are the Sega Dinosaur King dromaeosaurs you referred to the Deinonychus and Megaraptor?

Yes, those two!

[mgaguilar]

I personally think they should all be included. Nomenclature aside, are we worried that they may all be taking the top spot?
I'm very much aware of how expansive this specific genre of poll is going to be, but how can we not include the BOTM line, as well as Rebor, when they are just as much a part of the collection as many of the others would be in this poll?

Most of these polls have been overarching best "figures/toys/pieces" with the only sculpts being mostly excluded were high-end resin statues that are FAR more out of the price-range than say the BOTM or Rebor figures.
Just my humble opinion. I would love to see them all in a huge poll, and maybe everyone gets 15 votes, instead of just 10.