Inclusivity and diversity in movies

[suspsy]

Know what would be really nice? Giving the lead role to a non-white person for a change.

[PumperKrickel]

Know what would be really nice? Giving the lead role to a non-white person for a change.

Why do you care about inclusivity in a franchise you don't care about? Is this bait?

[CityRaptor]

Know what would be really nice? Giving the lead role to a non-white person for a change.

Camp Cretaceous and the upcoming Chaos Theory do that with Darius (rest of the Nublar Six is also pretty diverse, but Darius is the main focus)....unless you go by Lego sets, where he is pretty much Owen's sidekick.

[suspsy]

Know what would be really nice? Giving the lead role to a non-white person for a change.

Camp Cretaceous and the upcoming Chaos Theory do that with Darius (rest of the Nublar Six is also pretty diverse, but Darius is the main focus)....unless you go by Lego sets, where he is pretty much Owen's sidekick.

Camp Cretaceous is a Netflix cartoon, not a Hollywood motion picture.

[CityRaptor]

Then you should have been a bit more specific.

[suspsy]

Know what would be really nice? Giving the lead role to a non-white person for a change.

Why do you care about inclusivity in a franchise you don't care about? Is this bait?

As a non-white person myself, I care a great deal about inclusivity and diversity, period, and the simple fact of the matter is that the lead actors in all the JP films thus far have been white.

I sincerely hope that inclusivity and diversity are not things that you are somehow against.

Then you should have been a bit more specific.

I shouldn't have to be more specific when I'm clearly talking about a movie as opposed to a streaming cartoon.

[PumperKrickel]

As a non-white person myself, I care a great deal about inclusivity and diversity, period, and the simple fact of the matter is that the lead actors in all the JP films thus far have been white.

I sincerely hope that inclusivity and diversity are not things that you are somehow against.

It just feels weird when someone, who mostly declares a strong antipathy towards these movies, suddenly posts something with inflammatory potential like this. Maybe I'm being overly sensitive in this regard, but we've probably all seen online discussions escalate due to calls for more diversity. I certainly didn't mean to imply disagreement.

The rumors regarding Scarlett Johansson suggest we might get the first female lead, which is a step in the right direction I guess.

[suspsy]

As a non-white person myself, I care a great deal about inclusivity and diversity, period, and the simple fact of the matter is that the lead actors in all the JP films thus far have been white.

I sincerely hope that inclusivity and diversity are not things that you are somehow against.

It just feels weird when someone, who mostly declares a strong antipathy towards these movies, suddenly posts something with inflammatory potential like this.

Then please go back and reread what I already said to you. I probably won't pay to see any future JW film in a theatre, but I'd still be very happy if the lead was played by Zendaya or Zoe Saldana or Gemma Chan or someone along those lines. I don't watch any of the current live action Star Trek shows, but I appreciate the diversity of their casts regardless.

Maybe I'm being overly sensitive in this regard, but we've probably all seen online discussions escalate due to calls for more diversity. I certainly didn't mean to imply disagreement.

Anyone who thinks that advocating for greater diversity in a popular movie franchise is just "inflammatory potential" really ought to pause and do some serious reflection. Representation absolutely does matter. It always has.

[PumperKrickel]

Then please go back and reread what I already said to you. I probably won't pay to see any future JW film in a theatre, but I'd still be very happy if the lead was played by Zendaya or Zoe Saldana or Gemma Chan or someone along those lines. I don't watch any of the current live action Star Trek shows, but I appreciate the diversity of their casts regardless.

You're right and I apologize for jumping to conclusions. I was thinking Zoë Kravitz, but your examples would fit the franchise very well also.

Just gonna throw this out there that rumors are circulating that Dev Patel is in talks to join the cast.

Now this would be very exciting! Dev Patel is a fantastic actor, who deserves the spotlight a movie like this brings.

[Flaffy]

Know what would be really nice? Giving the lead role to a non-white person for a change.

Why do you care about inclusivity in a franchise you don't care about? Is this bait?

As a non-white person myself, I care a great deal about inclusivity and diversity, period, and the simple fact of the matter is that the lead actors in all the JP films thus far have been white.

I sincerely hope that inclusivity and diversity are not things that you are somehow against.

Interesting perspective. I personally find the quality of the script, and story the director/writer is trying to tell being far more important than the skin colour of the actors on screen. No matter how diverse a cast is, it still wouldn't make up for a poorly written story.

Moreover, I feel this recent push for diversity has had the opposite indended effect in certain cases. Take Netflix's 3 Body Problem show for example. It was a sci-fi novel written by a Chinese writer from a uniquely Chinese perspective, yet the show strips away a lot of that in favour of spectacle, adapted for a western audience. The cast in the show is no doubt more diverse than the near 100% chinese cast of the original story, but I don't believe that increased diversity in this regard was an inherently positive thing, as loosing the chinese perspective (and eastern philosophies) detracts from the uniqueness of this story which sets it apart from it's blockbuster counterparts like Star Wars.

[Reuben03]

Know what would be really nice? Giving the lead role to a non-white person for a change.

Why do you care about inclusivity in a franchise you don't care about? Is this bait?

As a non-white person myself, I care a great deal about inclusivity and diversity, period, and the simple fact of the matter is that the lead actors in all the JP films thus far have been white.

I sincerely hope that inclusivity and diversity are not things that you are somehow against.

Interesting perspective. I personally find the quality of the script, and story the director/writer is trying to tell being far more important than the skin colour of the actors on screen. No matter how diverse a cast is, it still wouldn't make up for a poorly written story.

Moreover, I feel this recent push for diversity has had the opposite indended effect in certain cases. Take Netflix's 3 Body Problem show for example. It was a sci-fi novel written by a Chinese writer from a uniquely Chinese perspective, yet the show strips away a lot of that in favour of spectacle, adapted for a western audience. The cast in the show is no doubt more diverse than the near 100% chinese cast of the original story, but I don't believe that increased diversity in this regard was an inherently positive thing, as loosing the chinese perspective (and eastern philosophies) detracts from the uniqueness of this story which sets it apart from it's blockbuster counterparts like Star Wars.

fully agree. im more interested in the colour of the dinosaurs then the people   haha

i hope we get some good dinosaur designs and a story that feels park era, not world!

some 90s style greg paul/mark hallett inspired stuff w good anatomy would be PERFECT.

some julius csotonyi maybe? that NEVER goes wrong.

[suspsy]

Know what would be really nice? Giving the lead role to a non-white person for a change.

Why do you care about inclusivity in a franchise you don't care about? Is this bait?

As a non-white person myself, I care a great deal about inclusivity and diversity, period, and the simple fact of the matter is that the lead actors in all the JP films thus far have been white.

I sincerely hope that inclusivity and diversity are not things that you are somehow against.

Interesting perspective. I personally find the quality of the script, and story the director/writer is trying to tell being far more important than the skin colour of the actors on screen. No matter how diverse a cast is, it still wouldn't make up for a poorly written story.

And why, pray tell, can we not have all of those things, plus a diverse cast? There's nothing whatsoever in the JW franchise which dictates that the lead actors should always remain white.

Moreover, I feel this recent push for diversity has had the opposite indended effect in certain cases. Take Netflix's 3 Body Problem show for example. It was a sci-fi novel written by a Chinese writer from a uniquely Chinese perspective, yet the show strips away a lot of that in favour of spectacle, adapted for a western audience. The cast in the show is no doubt more diverse than the near 100% chinese cast of the original story, but I don't believe that increased diversity in this regard was an inherently positive thing, as loosing the chinese perspective (and eastern philosophies) detracts from the uniqueness of this story which sets it apart from it's blockbuster counterparts like Star Wars.

And yet the show has been a success with audiences and critics. Moreover, Liu gave Netflix his personal blessing to diversify the cast in order to make the series more appealing to western audiences.

[Eatmycar]

I frankly don't get why there is pushback against the yearning for a diverse cast in these movies.

If we were talking about calls for new dinosaur species in this movie, I think we'd all be on the same page that diversity is good. However, when someone calls for diverse human characters, we are having a discussion over whether inclusivity is bad? How disappointing.

Everyone in the world should be able to see people who look like them in fictional media. This isn't a story set in World War II Germany where a non-white male protagonist might be ahistorical, it's the sixth sequel in a franchise about dinosaurs eating people for God's sake.

[Flaffy]

I frankly don't get why there is pushback against the yearning for a diverse cast in these movies.

If we were talking about calls for new dinosaur species in this movie, I think we'd all be on the same page that diversity is good. However, when someone calls for diverse human characters, we are having a discussion over whether inclusivity is bad? How disappointing.

Re: Dinosaurs
I don't understand the leap in logic from the discussion being held to concluding that "people are arguing that diversity is bad". You are putting words in people's mouths.

Of the many, many problems the Jurassic World franchise has, seeing a more diverse cast (be it human or dinosaur) is frankly the least of my concerns in regards to this mess of a franchise. The poor writing of JWFK - JWD just left such a sour taste in my mouth that I'm hoping something changes with JW4, however unlikely. I'm willing to argue that most of the new dinosaurs introduced in the world films have been criminaly underutilised with minimal to no impact, and purely present as namedrops, bells & whistles essentially. Human diversity and dinsoaur diversity are such non-comparable things that I find it odd and frankly dehumanising that you'd lump them into the same category as an argument.

Moreover, you cannot deny that a large part of collectors being excited for new official species is due to the simple fact that more dinosaur toys will be produced. Such is the nature of a dinosaur toy forum.

Everyone in the world should be able to see people who look like them in fictional media. This isn't a story set in World War II Germany where a non-white male protagonist might be ahistorical, it's the sixth sequel in a franchise about dinosaurs eating people for God's sake.

Re: Diversity
Lack of diversity is not inherently bad, diversity is not inherently good. I am of the opinion that the context of, and execution of said diversity/inclusivity being far more important. I certainly don't mind seeing a POC in a lead role in a future JW instalment, but I personally don't care for people's skin colour in my summer blockbuster popcorn flick either. The lead actor/actress could be white/black/brown etc. , yet it wouldn't even cross my mind to want a more or less diverse cast so long as the movie delivered on what it set out to do - dumb fun entertainment.

GxK is a good example of representation in a summer Hollywood popcorn flick IMO. There are roles where these aspects don't matter (99% of the cast), and there is one crucial lead role where disability was integral to the character (Jia), and they casted a deaf actress for the character (Kaylee Hottle).

Corporations wouldn't care for diversity and representation if it didn't generate profit. People who claim to want to see more diversity on screen should therefore actually go and vote with their wallets. Financially supporting projects with diverse casts encourages studios to continue with the practice. I don't understand calling for diversity, yet not supporting said projects when they deliver. The lack of financial incentive sends the message to studios that "diversity doesn't sell".

If I wanted to see people with the same skin colour as me on screen, I'd consume media from my home country. If I wanted stories from my culture, I know where to look. If a story calls for a specific setting, culture and/or race to be represented, then I strongly support the casting of people from the appropriate cultures/ethnicities. I can list a couple films where increased diversity did not contribute to the film:
- DragonBall Evolution (2009)
- The Last Airbender (2010)
- Ghost in the Shell (2017)

[Flaffy]

And why, pray tell, can we not have all of those things, plus a diverse cast? There's nothing whatsoever in the JW franchise which dictates that the lead actors should always remain white.

Who said we couldn't? I certainly didn't. I said we should scrutinise the franchise for poor writing first and foremost. The skin colour of characters in the JW franchise are a literal afterthought to me as it is not integral to the story. Like E @Eatmycar said, this is a franchise about dinosaurs eating people. Pretty sure we all taste the same underneath.

Secondly, lack of "controversial subjects" sells. It's no secret by now that Chinese posters for The Last Jedi basically scrubbed out John Boyega (a black actor). It's also no secret that Disney and many other studios cut out scenes of inclusivity (e.g. LGBT representation) for markets with... less progressive values. Blockbusters with immensely high budgets have to recoup that AND make a profit. Studios thus use every single dirty trick in the book to optimise profits globally. There absolutely is an incentive for studio executives to exclude POC and LGBT people from media, however despicable that may be. And by not supporting representation when they appear, it further re-enforces the to these higher-ups that diversity is not profitable.

And yet the show has been a success with audiences and critics. Moreover, Liu gave Netflix his personal blessing to diversify the cast in order to make the series more appealing to western audiences.

It's not a bad adaptation by any means, it's just that I feel it's a missed opportunity to tell a story from a strictly Chinese perspective. I know the Tencent version exists, but due to red tape a lot of the more sensitive topics had to be unfortunately dialed back or removed entirely from that version of the story. Moreover, I absolutely wouldn't be surprised if Netflix was, let's say, strongly persuasive in wanting to adapt the story for western markets. Creative leads often have little say once their stories are signed over to large corporations. See Netflix's recent ATLA adaptation, where the original show leads left the production due to "creative differences". The changes made were to the detriment of the final product, main criticisms e.g.
- Stripping Katara of her personality and agency by removing most of her character flaws
- Removing Sokka's sexism / misogyny, again a key character flaw (in which he over comes over the course of the original series)

[PumperKrickel]

I can list a couple films where increased diversity did not contribute to the film:
- DragonBall Evolution (2009)
- The Last Airbender (2010)
- Ghost in the Shell (2017)

I'd argue that putting white actors into uniquely asian stories is actually an example of decreased diversity. Maybe not in the literal sense, but in the spirit of the argument.

[stargatedalek]

I can list a couple films where increased diversity did not contribute to the film:
- DragonBall Evolution (2009)
- The Last Airbender (2010)
- Ghost in the Shell (2017)

I'd argue that putting white actors into uniquely asian stories is actually an example of decreased diversity. Maybe not in the literal sense, but in the spirit of the argument.

That and also these were poor choices for examples. TLA 2010 was a relatively diverse movie despite this for broader hollywood standards, especially ten years ago, it was still plenty diverse even with some characters changed to be white or middle eastern. And Ghost in the Shell would have been fine casting a white lead if they had adapted the original story instead of done their goofy Inspector Gadget origin story nonsense, her face not being uniquely hers is literally something present in the the original so you could have leaned into that with hiring an overtly familiar actress.

If I wanted to see people with the same skin colour as me on screen, I'd consume media from my home country. If I wanted stories from my culture, I know where to look. If a story calls for a specific setting, culture and/or race to be represented, then I strongly support the casting of people from the appropriate cultures/ethnicities.

Not every ethnicity, culture, or identity has that option. Things are improving sure but for example I can count the list of Holywood movies and TV shows with sapphic couples or characters as main protagonists that aren't kid shows, edgey teen dramas, or tragic period pieces quite easily. Probably on one hand if we ignore examples where one or both get killed off, or that "happened" to not get greenlit for any more seasons after revealing the characters were sapphic. I'd be shocked if any movies with Shaoshu Minzu leads even exist aside from maybe some documentaries. And certainly no such media is coming completely uncensored from modern China (it used to occasionally [at least queer media] but all of the related censorship dialed up bad in the last decade).

All of this is to say nothing about mixed race people, or people who've become culturally naturalized over generations, and so might still have trouble relating to media from (genetic) countries of origin. I have enough trouble understanding cultural references in Scottish media, let alone Chinese or Lebanese. If I want to consume Chinese media I have to consciously seek out examples that are influenced by Japanese or American media in order to really "get" them.

[Flaffy]

I can list a couple films where increased diversity did not contribute to the film:
- DragonBall Evolution (2009)
- The Last Airbender (2010)
- Ghost in the Shell (2017)

I'd argue that putting white actors into uniquely asian stories is actually an example of decreased diversity. Maybe not in the literal sense, but in the spirit of the argument.

That's moving goal posts no? The literal meaning of diversity in this context is to have more races / skin tones represented on screen. This superficial form of diversity does little to contribute to the film, and overall has an extremely limited positive cultural impact, if at all. The representation people are calling for in a Jurassic movie can inherently be shallow at best given the direction the franchise has taken.

I do have to preface that I do not have a western perspective. @stargatedalek brings up a good point about the perspective of dispora, 2nd+ generation children, mixed etc folk who have limited ties to their original culture. I believe there's some argument to be made for making an effort to to engage with media from cultures/ethnicities of origin, however foreign they may seem originally. "Reconnect with one's roots" as some may put it. Mixed folk in particular have the unique opportunitiy to engage in multiple different cultures at once, and hopefully establish a unique identity from that. For me, asian people on screen is the default, more often than not 100% of the cast would be east asian, anything else is "foreign" and thus diverse.

I don't understand why there is this attitude where "If you're not 100% with me, then you're against me" in these sorts of discussions. Or how some folk not caring about something as shallow as skin tone in a goofy dinosaur movie, is being spun into being against diversity & inclusitivity as a whole.

[Primeval12]

I'm of the opinion that unless you're a POC, you can't accurately judge what diverse casting means to members of that particular race.

[Flaffy]

That and also these were poor choices for examples. TLA 2010 was a relatively diverse movie despite this for broader hollywood standards, especially ten years ago, it was still plenty diverse even with some characters changed to be white or middle eastern. And Ghost in the Shell would have been fine casting a white lead if they had adapted the original story instead of done their goofy Inspector Gadget origin story nonsense, her face not being uniquely hers is literally something present in the the original so you could have leaned into that with hiring an overtly familiar actress.

Re: ATLA
So you agree that TLA (2010) was a diverse film? That was my point. It is diverse, moreso than the cartoon which aside from the Water tribe feature (fictional) cultures that primarily drew inspiration from East Asia (thought with aspects of many many others sprinkled in).
- Earth Kingdom: Chinese
- Fire Nation: Japanese/Korean
- Water Tribes:  Aleut/Inuit/Yupik/Acadian
- Air Nomads: Tibetan
While on the other hand the film was far more diverse, with white, black, south asian, middle eastern representation. However, that did not make the film a better product. Representation done right in a good film is like a cherry on top. But you can't polish a turd, TLA was a horrendous production with an even worse script. No matter how diverse the cast it couldn't save the film.

Not every ethnicity, culture, or identity has that option. Things are improving sure but for example I can count the list of Holywood movies and TV shows with sapphic couples or characters as main protagonists that aren't kid shows, edgey teen dramas, or tragic period pieces quite easily. Probably on one hand if we ignore examples where one or both get killed off, or that "happened" to not get greenlit for any more seasons after revealing the characters were sapphic. I'd be shocked if any movies with Shaoshu Minzu leads even exist aside from maybe some documentaries. And certainly no such media is coming completely uncensored from modern China (it used to occasionally [at least queer media] but all of the related censorship dialed up bad in the last decade).

Definitely all fair points. Cultural identity and sexual orientation however are far more complex subjects that what was discussed originally: wanting a non-white lead in a Jurassic film. I don't think I'm nearly well versed enough in the topic of sexual orientation especially to be able to comment outside of "I don't mind seeing it on screen".

One has to question the actual impact having a non-white lead in a Jurassic film could have outside of superficial representation. I certainly don't expect the Jurassic franchise to go into deep dives of cultural identitiy and whatnot, they barely do the things they set out to do in the first place (JWD somehow got turned into some locust fetch quest?).

I personally dont believe that my race should be a marketing ploy for some corporation to score brownie points. Representation should be done purposefully and carefully to avoid perpetuating harmful stereotypes.