Gastornis Not Such A Terror After All

[SBell]

Noooo!
Coolest bird ever a herbivore? Man I liked it better when it shredded little forest animals!
http://www.tapirback.com/tapirgal/gifts/friends/birds/bird-long-tailed-plastic-animals-f619.htm
(Confuciusornis)
Come on people! In case you guys didn't know,this plastic Nayab bird is actually a primitive bird!
And from 3 years of reading here on the forum,I have not seen a single thing about this bird!
    *orthocone*

It's probably meant to be a Whydah, given the line it comes from.

[Derek Sohoza]

I'm still perplexed on the observation of beaks here. I feel like the majority of people who made comments have a point when it comes to the un-hooked beak. It's pretty flat, which wouldn't tear much flesh at all. As for the crushing and swallowing method mentioned, it would have to be a prey animal small enough for it to swallow without choking. But I do see a potential argument there. Herons swallow anything from rabbits to large bass, and they don't even need to crush it.

Shown here:
(http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01112/heron4_1112623c.jpg)
(http://geckrich.com/GBHE%20eating%20big%20bass/slides/Great%20Blue%20Heron%20swallowing%20large%20bass.jpg)

But, as I do like to keep an open mind, I would say it's possible it was herbivorous as well. After reading all this, I'm going with omnivore, in my personal opinion.

As for the comments on Spinosaurus, I'm not surprised other animals besides fish were found inside it. Its jaws don't seem like they were made for much more than fish, but if you compare it to that of crocodiles, a whole new variety of prey items are possible. Crocodiles eat animals far larger than themselves and that's just using waterside ambush techniques. Spinosaurus was far more mobile, and even if it couldn't run fast, it's gait would allow it to catch up to plenty of smaller dinosaurs.

[Yutyrannus]

Actually, I'm growing more fond of the omnivorous theory that a strict diet of either meat or plants. Look at bears. Even Arctodus was an omnivore. I think bears are really the best analogy-capable eating anything that it comes across. Bears certainly eat a great deal of plants, but they're also very good predators.

This is mostly true, but Arctodus was a bad example as it has been proven to be a pure carnivore.

"HELLO! Aren't you forgetting something?! HYACINTH MACAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
What part of "terrestrial" aren't you getting here?

You didn't say terrestrial, you said all nutcracking birds are small. What better to prove that statement wrong than a 6 foot parrot ?

[Seijun]

How was Arctodus proven to be 100% carnivore?

[Balaur]

I just checked. Arctodus is an omnivore, like all bears.

[Iguanocolossus]

Actually, I'm growing more fond of the omnivorous theory that a strict diet of either meat or plants. Look at bears. Even Arctodus was an omnivore. I think bears are really the best analogy-capable eating anything that it comes across. Bears certainly eat a great deal of plants, but they're also very good predators.

This is mostly true, but Arctodus was a bad example as it has been proven to be a pure carnivore.

"HELLO! Aren't you forgetting something?! HYACINTH MACAW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

What part of "terrestrial" aren't you getting here?

You didn't say terrestrial, you said all nutcracking birds are small. What better to prove that statement wrong than a 6 foot parrot ?

That's still a bird smaller than a Jack Russel Terrier and can FLY.

I can't think of any early Palaeogene plants with  nuts the size of cannonballs, but I'm not a palaeobotanist. I know the other fauna, and there's nothing that a Gastornis couldn't take down except for the really big pantodonts and uintatheres.

[Gwangi]

I just checked. Arctodus is an omnivore, like all bears.

I don't know that I would call the giant panda or polar bear omnivores. Granted they'll supplement their diet but the panda's diet is something like 99% bamboo. Polar bears are more flexible but there is little for them to eat in the way of plant life.
I was also under the impression that Arctodus were thought to be primarily herbivores. A quick Wikipedia search did bring up this though. News to me.

Researchers disagree on the diet of Arctodus. Analysis of their bones showed high concentrations of nitrogen-15, a stable nitrogen isotope accumulated by meat-eaters, with no evidence of ingestion of vegetation. Based on this evidence, A. simus was highly carnivorous and as an adult would have required 16 kg (35.3 lb) of flesh per day to survive.

[Balaur]

I just checked. Arctodus is an omnivore, like all bears.

I don't know that I would call the giant panda or polar bear omnivores. Granted they'll supplement their diet but the panda's diet is something like 99% bamboo. Polar bears are more flexible but there is little for them to eat in the way of plant life.
I was also under the impression that Arctodus were thought to be primarily herbivores. A quick Wikipedia search did bring up this though. News to me.

Researchers disagree on the diet of Arctodus. Analysis of their bones showed high concentrations of nitrogen-15, a stable nitrogen isotope accumulated by meat-eaters, with no evidence of ingestion of vegetation. Based on this evidence, A. simus was highly carnivorous and as an adult would have required 16 kg (35.3 lb) of flesh per day to survive.

I did check the Wikipedia page, but I missed that (I don't even know how). I also forgot about the pandas, they are big bamboo eaters. It's just that most bears such as brown bears, black bears ect. are omnivores, so I somehow made that into all bears are omnivores.

On the opinion of Gastornis's diet, I am in the omnivorous camp. I believe it was probably mainly a herbivore, but would scavenge dead animals if it felt like it.

[Concavenator]

Hmmm...I think Gastornis was fully carnivore,because,why wanted a bird a HUGE beak;why wanted a bird so BIG foot claws.And its big size may have served for frightening its preys.And its larges paws may have served for running its prey.I think it was carnivore

[Balaur]

Hmmm...I think Gastornis was fully carnivore,because,why wanted a bird a HUGE beak;why wanted a bird so BIG foot claws.And its big size may have served for frightening its preys.And its larges paws may have served for running its prey.I think it was carnivore

However, it should be noted that while it did have a huge beak, and it did have big foot claws, it doesn't mean it is a carnivore. Toucans are large beaks, and they aren't carnivores. Ostriches have large feet, but they aren't carnivores either. The big problem is that while predatory birds (including the terror birds) have curved claws, Gastornis didn't have it, and the curved claws are a KEY feature in predatory birds. Also, it didn't have a curved beak, which is also another key feature in predatory birds. Also, big size would probably be a problem for a predator, making it harder to camouflage in a forested area, and its big size probably will frighten its prey, but its prey probably will run away, and it will make it harder to catch. Ambush is the best way to hunt prey.

Personally, I think it was an omnivore. I think it was primarily a herbivore, but if the plants and/or fruit it relied on eating where absent from a drought, it could probably scavenge dead animals, but I don;t think it hunted.

[Everything_Dinosaur]

Thanks for your input, we put together the Gastornis article after having sifted through the academic papers.  Whether herbivore, omnivore or carnivore it remains one of our favourite Cenozoic creatures.  Perhaps this is because most of the prehistoric animal books I had as a child featured it, or perhaps it is simply because there is nothing like it around today.

[Everything_Dinosaur]

I certainly would not want to pick an argument with Gastornis/Diatryma it might not have been carnivorous but even so I would not fancy my chances in a fight.  Once very nearly got attacked by a male Ostrich who was being a little over protective to its young brood, a frightening experience, especially when up close you get an impression of just how big and strong they are.

[Balaur]

I certainly would not want to pick an argument with Gastornis/Diatryma it might not have been carnivorous but even so I would not fancy my chances in a fight.  Once very nearly got attacked by a male Ostrich who was being a little over protective to its young brood, a frightening experience, especially when up close you get an impression of just how big and strong they are.

Yes, this proves once and for all that herbivores can attack you and can and will kill you.

[CityRaptor]

What are you talking about? Herbivores are totally harmless:


Fun aside, I can only agree that even if it were a herbivore ( think it is an omnivore ) making Gastornis angry is a bad idea. Angry Birds = Run for your life.

[tyrantqueen]

The herbivores depicted in this comic usually behave in such a manner because of breeding/rutting or territorial reasons- see how nearly all of them are male? Normally herbivores don't go out of their way to kill other animals.

[CityRaptor]

Thew point of the Comic is however that Herbivore =/= Harmless. Note how Grant and the Kids got squished by the Brachiosaurus due to accident.

It also makes discussions about who is the most powerful Theropod a bit more hilarious, since Giganotosaurus or Tyrannosaurus could easily have been squished by the likes of Argentinosaurus or Alamosaurus.

So even if Gastornis was a herbivore, it was for sure not an animal one would like to mess with.

[tyrantqueen]

Thew point of the Comic is however that Herbivore =/= Harmless. Note how Grant and the Kids got squished by the Brachiosaurus due to accident.

It also makes discussions about who is the most powerful Theropod a bit more hilarious, since Giganotosaurus or Tyrannosaurus could easily have been squished by the likes of Argentinosaurus or Alamosaurus.

So even if Gastornis was a herbivore, it was for sure not an animal one would like to mess with.

I'm aware of that. However, I decided to point out the other side of the argument too.

It also makes discussions about who is the most powerful Theropod a bit more hilarious

No it doesn't. Alamosaurus and Argentinosaurus are not theropods, so they don't count.

[Iguanocolossus]

I think we need some palaeobotanists.

I've read that emus and rheas are very nippy and aggressive. Imagine that with a beak the size of a toaster.

[Gwangi]

I think we need some palaeobotanists.

I've read that emus and rheas are very nippy and aggressive. Imagine that with a beak the size of a toaster.

Cassowaries are herbivorous and are also considered among the most dangerous birds in the world.

[Simon]

Emus are pretty docile.  I never heard of one attacking anyone, and there are lots of them on ranches in the US, where I've seen them close-up.

Cassowaries can disembowel a human with that huge thumb claw.  When threatened they attack by leaping forward, claw-first.

Check this photo out and you can get the idea, then look at the moron in the video: