Battat anonymous

[loru1588]

Probably quite accurate stating that everyone has a right to their own feelings and opinions regarding toy dinosaurs. I , myself wont purchase Schleich's or Papo toys for instance....everyone has their likes and dislikes and priorities for their collection.
  One thing some might have missed in the discussions is the matter of Dan's health and ability to sculpt or do smaller detail. I may be wrong or have misunderstood, but I did feel he mentioned he has to take chemo shots just to keep his hand steady enough to work in the scale he is using for the Terra line . If I got it wrong I apologize but I am almost certain I read something to this effect, coupled with the fact his back is apparently a slipped disc mess. Given that circumstance I tend to allow a little leeway for the detail level at its finest....im just delighted we are able to again purchase his sculpts in fresh species .I cannot sculpt a dinosaur myself, and i can only imagine how hard it would be to do so with that many issues bogging you down .
   Another factor i consider is price....these dinosaurs were made for the mass market as toys and seem to run around 7-8 dollars a piece.........a trip to Mcdonalds for a decent size meal costs that anymore. These figures are being offered at a price range designed to move them off the shelves, and yet offer accuracy, playability and affordability. If you improve the paint, or make the sculpts more detailed or this or that...that all comes with a price. Hard to complain at the current cost per figure , given the amount of accuracy and detail being offered.
  My take on the old Battats is ...I get them if I can, but I refuse to pay exhorbitant prices for any of them. Just rather sink that money into having a sauropod tooth, or duckbill jawbone, rather than a mass produced toy, no matter how rare.I do have a good piece of the set already...and do own a single Battat Master resin Amargasaurus myself.
Have to say it is well done, nicely detailed and a beautiful piece too. I am excited for the upcoming Gigantraptor, and for the soon to be created Plateosaurus, a figure I have championed since the discussion began.

Thanks for the vote of confidence amargasaurus!! I will clarify some facts though. These aren't excuses, simply what I have to deal with. The chemo I take (Revlamid) causes neuropathy in the fingers. They feel burning cold & numb all the time and like when you were a kid a played in the snow too long. So the feel and touch I had years ago is gone, probably never to get it back. I feel as though my current Battat sculptures have been improving the more I do simply because I am getting accustomed to my current condition. These are also $8.00 toys not $45.00 resin sculpts. That said, everyone's taste is different in the toy dinosaur field. The toys from the 50's, 60's 70's & 80's are "retro" now, but may have been state of the art, current science information then and should be accepted for that, plain & simple. The major toy companies out there have their own styles, some more consistent than others. I know Forest personally and she does a great job on a subject that really isn't her forte. ( Check out her other work and your jaw will hit the floor!!) I think Doug Watson's work on the Safari series is also exceptional. If they both have to go through the rigors that I went through when I did work for Safari, then, MORE POWER TO THEM!! To me, one company is WAY TOO Jurassic Parkish, another runs hit or miss, but I can appreciate the work that goes on behind each sculpt. I hear phrases like "...finally realistic skin texture" and look at the toy and think...."It's realistic, but so far out of scale, the scales are bigger than the animals eyes!" But, that's me. I also keep it to myself unless I am asked to do a review ( which I would never do, just for the possibility of someone deeming me biased ). I also don't knock someone else's work unless I own it and have it in my hands to scrutinize. That just isn't fair. So, in closing, don't like my sculpts or some other companies toys, don't buy them. Think about what you say and how you say it. You may not feel as though you are knocking a company or the sculptor, but you are. As my Mom told me so many times when I was a child, " Have nothing good to say, don't say anything!"

[tyrantqueen]

I do like the Invictas, but can understand why one wouldn't. One thing that sticks out to me is that although they are finely detailed they still fudge things like individual toes for the theropods. Would be interested to hear reasons for the dislike of Invicta, I don't see an enormous difference between them and the Marx Dinosaurs.

Two words: tail drag. I really like some Invictas though from their online images, like the Lambeo, Liopleurodon, and Cetiosaurus.
I don't like Marx either. I don't know why, but I am generally anti-retrosaur for accuracy reasons.

In the words of Ray Harryhausen:

"They were meant to be DRAGGED!!!"

(...I'm not making a statement here, just a little joke.)

[stargatedalek]

I certainly do like the Battat figures (old and new), but I don't feel that to me the originals are worth the prices they often tend to sell for these days. I traded the few that I had not to long ago and even though I think they are nice figures I don't regret doing so. That being said I will be picking up some of the upcoming re-released MOS line and Terra figures when they are sold in Canada.


@Dan Loru1588
I'm very sorry about your hands, I wish you the best of luck and I'd like to point out that I don't feel the quality of your sculpts has been affected, I think they are amazing and always have been. Overall that was very well said and I congratulate you on your efforts, I would however like to argue the point of negative feedback comments. I agree that at times criticism can go overboard, such as the same thing(s) being restated time and again (I know I am certainly guilty of this at times and its my bad), or complaints about very trivial things that boil down to personal preference, but at times I feel that criticism when done in a polite and constructive way can be very helpful. When critiquing/reviewing its important to always try and remain positive and keep your critiquing to areas like scientific accuracy rather than personal opinions.

[loru1588]

I certainly do like the Battat figures (old and new), but I don't feel that to me the originals are worth the prices they often tend to sell for these days. I traded the few that I had not to long ago and even though I think they are nice figures I don't regret doing so. That being said I will be picking up some of the upcoming re-released MOS line and Terra figures when they are sold in Canada.


@Dan Loru1588
I'm very sorry about your hands, I wish you the best of luck and I'd like to point out that I don't feel the quality of your sculpts has been affected, I think they are amazing and always have been. Overall that was very well said and I congratulate you on your efforts, I would however like to argue the point of negative feedback comments. I agree that at times criticism can go overboard, such as the same thing(s) being restated time and again (I know I am certainly guilty of this at times and its my bad), or complaints about very trivial things that boil down to personal preference, but at times I feel that criticism when done in a polite and constructive way can be very helpful. When critiquing/reviewing its important to always try and remain positive and keep your critiquing to areas like scientific accuracy rather than personal opinions.

Thank you stargatedalek for your kind words.  I general have little problem with constructive criticism. ( Depends on my mood that day!! LOL) However these are 1:40th scale models, a .2mm wrinkle would scale up to just under 1/3 of an inch in real life, a 1/16th inch scale becomes 2.5" in reality. To make the detail on the sculpts "crisper" & more detail can actually be an exaggeration of the features and I don't go that route. I've seen some toys that the scales are larger and deeper than the animals eyes! Some may find that "crisp and well defined" I find it heavily exaggerated. I delve into model aircraft also, and the same argument ensues with rivets. If you scaled them up on some kits they be the size of my fist when they should be 1/2" or so in real life. Some a/c modelers like them, I don't. Everyone has their likes and dislikes. I go in the direction the experts I talk with tell me to go. Even there we eventually get criticism and opinions, so........it's a no win, but I have to stay true to myself. As for the high cost of the old Battat Series, it's only because they are collectables that the cost is so high. Once the revamped, repainted series is re-released the cost will be in line with what's on the market now. I agree, the prices can get astronomical! The Terra Series is now available from Target Online. I didn't know if you knew that. Thanks again.

[stargatedalek]

I agree large scales are all fine and well but not on 1:40th scale models. I loved the rivet analogy, really helped me picture it! Paleontology is rarely an exact science, its to be expected that different people will take different approaches to it. Thanks for the heads up about Target online, but I think I'll check a few Targets locally first.

[tanystropheus]

I apologize for being unusually harsh at Mojo Fun, but, really, there is no excuse for this :

http://s1200.photobucket.com/user/SUSANNE58/media/Mojo/mojorex7.jpg.html

[Manatee]

I apologize for being unusually harsh at Mojo Fun, but, really, there is no excuse for this :

http://s1200.photobucket.com/user/SUSANNE58/media/Mojo/mojorex7.jpg.html

Why are you posting about Mojo in this topic? Wrong thread?
Edit- never mind. You weren't unusually harsh in any way that requires apology; ripping on Mojo Fun is something we all do.

[Gwangi]

Well said, Amargasaurus. I personally am a very big fan of Battats when they are very well made, even though I lack the nostalgia for the MOS line; my Parasaurolophus is easily one of my favorite figures I own so far, as the sculpting and accuracy are outstanding. On the other hand, however, sculpts like the Dilo and the infamous eight-spiked Stegosaurus will not be entering my shelves any time soon. Like several other people mentioned before, it is, in my opinion, ridiculous to ostracize or look down upon someone simply for not liking a certain manufacturer of models. I personally haven't come across anyone that has looked down upon someone in my time here, yet I'm sure it happens. "Discriminating against someone for not liking a toy brand" sounds quite silly when put into that context, doesn't it?

Also, I really hope the Plateosaurus is in a bipedal position holding its body horizontally. We really need one; not trying to sound too picky though.

I won't mention names but I felt as though I was looked down upon for not liking Invicta dinosaurs. I just don't like the sculpting style, never did.

There are actually lots of old dinosaur toys I really like. The old Marxes for example. I like some of the really old ('80s) Kaiyodos and I would love to have them in my collection. I like the old tail draggers. So yeah...another man's trash is another man's treasure.

I hope it wasn't me, I remember defending the Invicta line in a discussion with you but if I came across as "elitist" or as looking down at you that was not my intention. I realize some of my passion for the things I love can get intense at times but it's only because I want to convey to people why I love what I love, if that makes any sense.

I didn't have the Battat line when I was growing up, though I was the right age for it. Despite this, they still feel nostalgic to me. They just look like dinosaurs from that era, when I was at the peak of my childhood dinosaur obsession. And many of them do have their flaws, and there are some I'm not a big fan of but you have to take into context the time when they were produced. The same with Invicta or Marx. If something is well made you can tell, regardless of what era they were released. You can see that a lot of love and passion for the subject went into these lines. In my opinion, some of the Battat models (Tyrannosaurus, Diplodocus, Parasaurolophus, Styracosaurus etc.) are STILL the best representations of those species ever produced, especially when you take their age into context. But like I said, there are some I just don't like. A lot of people love the Ceratosaurus, I'm not a fan of it. To each their own. I certainly won't intentionally belittle people for their opinion but that doesn't mean I won't defend what I like or at least try to help them understand why others may like it.

As for the Terra line. They are in the $6-8 price range. That's a cheaper price than any of the other mass produced toys that are currently out and in addition to that, they're among the most accurate and best sculpted. My only problem with the Terra line is some of the paint application but they do fit in well with the older models, I can say that much.

[Daspletodave]

I do like the Invictas, but can understand why one wouldn't. One thing that sticks out to me is that although they are finely detailed they still fudge things like individual toes for the theropods. Would be interested to hear reasons for the dislike of Invicta, I don't see an enormous difference between them and the Marx Dinosaurs.

Two words: tail drag. I really like some Invictas though from their online images, like the Lambeo, Liopleurodon, and Cetiosaurus.
I don't like Marx either. I don't know why, but I am generally anti-retrosaur for accuracy reasons.

I do like the Invictas- but let's put them in perspective. The Invicta line ran from 1973 to 1993 (according to the website Realm of Rubber Dinosaurs). A lot of things changed during those 20 years, including the way dinosaurs were viewed. Invicta did change with the times - not all of their sauropods were tail draggers - the Cetiosaurus and Mamenchisaurus hold their tails aloft. The "big three" (Brachiosaurus, Apatosaurus, and Diplodocus) were tail draggers- but so were these same dinos from Carnegie!!! The Carnegie line started in 1988, and all three of its sauropods were tail draggers.
Neither company was trying to be "retro" - they were just depicting these dinos the way science viewed them at that time (and by the way Museums also mounted sauropod skeletons that way for the longest time)

[tyrantqueen]

I hope it wasn't me, I remember defending the Invicta line in a discussion with you but if I came across as "elitist" or as looking down at you that was not my intention. I realize some of my passion for the things I love can get intense at times but it's only because I want to convey to people why I love what I love, if that makes any sense.

No, it wasn't you.

[Manatee]

No, they weren't trying to be retro at the time. However, I judge figures by their accuracy in respect to our current knowledge of the animal, rather than how they were perceived at the time. Just because Marx or Invicta was the best of the best at the time doesn't mean they hold up to our standard now. Also, I am in no way trying to put down all the Invicta line. The Lambeosaurus is magnificent, and the Mammuthus, Dimetrodon, Cetiosaurus, Liopleurodon, and several others are quite good. It's just the tail draggers that irritate me. I am also one of the younger members of the forum judging from the "How old is everyone?" thread, so I lack the nostalgia some of you guys have for these brands.

[tyrantqueen]

so I lack the nostalgia some of you guys have for these brands.

I don't have any nostalgia for any brand of dinosaur toy. I grew up with JP toys, and Invicta (the latter sorta...I had some of them but don't remember playing with them much). I think I actually have more affection for my old chinasaurs than any branded stuff.

Maybe the closest thing I have to a nostalgia dino is the big red Kenner Tyrannosaurus (I used to imagine he was Diablo from Primal Rage), but I don't own it in adulthood and probably never will. I guess my nit-pickiness cancels out any warm fuzzy childhood feelings

[triceratops83]

I feel bad for bumming on the material and molding process used in the BMOS series. I thought I better come back and say the Terra series is using a more solid material and I the figure was free from any flash or noticeable seam lines. The artistry of course is still as perfect as it was in the BMOS line.

[loru1588]

I feel bad for bumming on the material and molding process used in the BMOS series. I thought I better come back and say the Terra series is using a more solid material and I the figure was free from any flash or noticeable seam lines. The artistry of course is still as perfect as it was in the BMOS line.

This is one of the points I'm trying to make. The BMOS series is 20 years old.To give you some perspective, here's what cell phones were like in the mid 90's <https://www.google.com/search?q=what+year+did+the+1st+practical+cell+phone+become+available&biw=1041&bih=829&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=Ry6aVO-AM6f9sASg-4CICg&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAw&dpr=0.9#tbm=isch&q=image+of+cell+phones+from+the+mid+1990s>

[loru1588]

In  other words, technology changes, materials change, quality changes.

[triceratops83]

In  other words, technology changes, materials change, quality changes.

Oh I understand completely, it was a very minor complaint and I just wanted to give a balanced idea of the products considering the topic. Like I said, though, the BMOS line is one which all other Dinosaur toys will be compared with, because they are groundbreaking. I'm weird with aesthetics, I don't much like Bullyland because of the soft material they use. I think I might be worried it will be become brittle or something. A dinosaur toy should HURT if you drop in on your foot

[Paleogene Pals]

I hate it when the Nineties start to look dated.      I always wondered what that detailing that looks wonderful on a scale model would look like in full scale.  Wouldn't most of that at 1:40 basically appear to be smooth skin? I remember reading somewhere that if scaled up to the size of the Grand Canyon, the little air holes on a pancake would be deeper than the GC; in fact, a pancake would have more topography than anyplace on Earth, IIRC.

[tyrantqueen]

I hate it when the Nineties start to look dated.      I always wondered what that detailing that looks wonderful on a scale model would look like in full scale.  Wouldn't most of that at 1:40 basically appear to be smooth skin? I remember reading somewhere that if scaled up to the size of the Grand Canyon, the little air holes on a pancake would be deeper than the GC; in fact, a pancake would have more topography than anyplace on Earth, IIRC.

Yes, at the size at which they are produced, scales shouldn't be visible, or should be very tiny. Personally seeing oversized scale patterns on a small sculpt really bugs me. But YMMV.

[sauroid]

just wondering, what if the scales of large animals were as big as plates?

[stargatedalek]

Than it would revolutionize our knowledge of scales