REBOR general discussion

[MechaKnifehead]

  If anyone "nailed it" it was joosa there. Couldn't have said it better myself.

  The thing that really interests me about "Hercules" is the fact that we've never had an Acrocanthosaurus tackled on the affordable end of the "high end".  And he looks gorgeous so far...  Like he stepped right out of a film...  Or life.  They definitely seem to be paying more attention to accuracy.  Even in just a few models they've come a long way.

[amargasaurus cazaui]

I mostly agree with what Joose said, however I offer that different people have different takes on the entire experience because each of our life experiences is different. I was not purchasing rebor products prior to the meltdown and have little interest in theropods myself...and I also care little how accurate they are or not. No dog in the race.....however....The representative chose to insult someone I call a friend, Doug Watson. For some of you thats the person who sculpts dinosaurs for Safari and you know him by reputation. For me, he is a friend who has made an effort to help me with my collection and efforts, above and beyond just because....he did. I was able to send him figures from Dr admin in England, to Doug, have them signed by Doug, and then sent home to me here. He took the time to sign each figure and return them for me, despite his busy work and life schedule, He has done a few other things on my behalf since I will not get into, but the point is....he helped me and did something for me, without any expectations in return. When someone then is rude to him or insults him, it does bother me yes.
   The statement was made that an apology will not fix or change anything...and this is where you and I see things differently Joosa. I do not expect change from the models, the accuracy or their attitude......I just feel the proper thing is to apologize to Doug.....as a principle. Change is not demanded nor expected, nor is it the the driving factor. It is a matter of making amends...and until that happens for me at least the representative, and the company who pays his salary and employs him do not deserve to be supported with my purchases. For me it does not matter what models come or how anyone views that stand, it is about a feeling I have regarding people that help me vs, people who would injure them. There are just more ways to see things than what you stated is all.
   The only other thing I might add is that somewhere in what you offered and stated, you missed that the admins for the site issued multiple bans for the rude comments you were referring to, and did make an effort to explain that the type of comments being made were not acceptable. I felt they did try and were fair in banning a number of people for being ....provocative towards Rebor. It was not as one sided as it is being painted in hindsight.

[tanystropheus]

I mostly agree with what Joose said, however I offer that different people have different takes on the entire experience because each of our life experiences is different. I was not purchasing rebor products prior to the meltdown and have little interest in theropods myself...and I also care little how accurate they are or not. No dog in the race.....however....The representative chose to insult someone I call a friend, Doug Watson. For some of you thats the person who sculpts dinosaurs for Safari and you know him by reputation. For me, he is a friend who has made an effort to help me with my collection and efforts, above and beyond just because....he did. I was able to send him figures from Dr admin in England, to Doug, have them signed by Doug, and then sent home to me here. He took the time to sign each figure and return them for me, despite his busy work and life schedule, He has done a few other things on my behalf since I will not get into, but the point is....he helped me and did something for me, without any expectations in return. When someone then is rude to him or insults him, it does bother me yes.
 

I don't think REBOR had the slightest clue who Doug Watson is. I think REBOR just went into a spur-of-the-moment flurry of psychobabble without realizing the weight of their words. I'm pretty sure that if REBOR was aware of what Doug Watson stands for or the amount of research that goes into making his products, they would have had tremendous respect for him.  If anything, REBOR would probably have (instead) blamed Safari Ltd. for the amount of funding allocated for the design process or the paint apps.  It was quite clear from their statements that they were naively unaware of the presence of the Wild Safari Acrocanthosaurus.

What would you do if REBOR made the most accurate (and aesthetically pleasant) 1/35 Psittacosaurus model or Psittacosaurus family diorama? A version that conforms to the latest paleontological research and is superior in every way to the finest kits or models in existence...And, what if they keep releasing high-end, affordable models of basal ceratopsians...what would you do?

[Shadowknight1]

  If anyone "nailed it" it was joosa there. Couldn't have said it better myself.

  The thing that really interests me about "Hercules" is the fact that we've never had an Acrocanthosaurus tackled on the affordable end of the "high end".  And he looks gorgeous so far...  Like he stepped right out of a film...  Or life.  They definitely seem to be paying more attention to accuracy.  Even in just a few models they've come a long way.

Herc is probably their most accurate sculpt so far.  We just have to see how the colors turn out next month.

[amargasaurus cazaui]

I would curse and mutter and clench my fingers tightly and keep my word and refuse to purchase because that is how I work. I do admit that would be the way to tempt me severely and painfully and without end however.......for me a principle is important. It would be a true test of wills, and I am amused at the idea to be sure.
   You are probably also correct regarding the comments regarding Doug, in which case they should not find it too difficult to offer an apology and move forward. I think my main point was that I was not that invested in their products, mistakes, accuracy or so forth until they took to "snark-casm" about Doug.
   You do make some good points and are likely correct...lets see how it plays out.

[Doug Watson]

No dog in the race.....however....The representative chose to insult someone I call a friend, Doug Watson.

Thank you Amargasaurus the feeling is definitely mutual! I count myself lucky to have found this forum and as a result made friends around the world that would never have known otherwise. I only became aware of what was being said about me here yesterday totally by chance because I don't follow any of of this company's threads. I read MechaKnifehead's intro to the forum and that drew me here and I started seeing references to me being insulted. Took awhile to find it but it seems I drew the ire of an anonymous rep for said company. He or she says they don't know me well back at you in fact we don't even know who YOU are. To all those who took offence I appreciate you coming to my defence but those comments didn't hurt me because I do not respect the author. I heard better insults in grade 1. It would have meant more to me if those comments had come from one of the REAL Forum members because even though I may not agree with all of you I do respect all of you even the ones who have said you hated my pieces because I have been reading your comments for years and I know you are passionate about the hobby and you are knowledgable as well. For that reason and also because I have more class I have never come on here throwing insults at any of you for comments made about any of my pieces. I have had disagreements but we have all kept them civil. Amargasaurus don't wait for an apology on my behalf it wouldn't mean anything to me if he or she did offer one.
The person I really feel bad for is John, I know he broke the rules which call for an immediate ban but he is a VALUED member of this forum and I hope he returns after the 30 days because HIS opinions will be missed.
As an aside I just refreshed my list of pieces I have sculpted for Safari Ltd and counting extant and extinct species I am now up to 193 so I will be hitting (and passing) the 200 mark this year.  At the minimum run of 5,000 copies per piece that means there are already at least 965,000 of my toys potentially in the hands of kids and collectors like you and that gives me the best feeling I could ask for, in fact it kind of blows my mind! At this point I had a rather colourful remark in mind for that other company but I'll leave that to your imagination. Now back to the more interesting threads.

[laticauda]

Congratulations Doug!  Over 200 pieces, that is awesome!  Then, when you add the fact that almost a million models that you sculpted, is in the hands of collectors and kids all over the world, that is truly amazing thought. 

[Doug Watson]

Congratulations Doug!  Over 200 pieces, that is awesome!  Then, when you add the fact that almost a million models that you sculpted, is in the hands of collectors and kids all over the world, that is truly amazing thought.

Thank you. Yes, I'll be able to say "Over a million served, do you want fries with that?"

[Shonisaurus]

What is outrageous is that a member of a toy company as Rebor insult customers why criticize their figures.

Do not disrespect by a company to customers, is inadmissible.

I in my work, and it is my obligation should respect clients who attend in public although missing some even respect me, because obviously if this is not done I poured the job.

On the other hand one must accept criticism of others, and more in this forum where we valuation according to our understanding of the figures of dinosaur toys and collectibles, I even am a buyer of Rebor and I think the Acrocanthosaurus who we it is shown very well done, I like it for the reasons stated above though not so perfect figure, and only by the fact that undoubtedly respected customer more acrocanthosaurus of Collecta.

[suspsy]

Yeah, I feel bad for John as well. His language was harsh, but I don't fault him one bit. REBOR had it coming. I hope he's still able to follow this thread and know there are folks supporting him.

And props to Doug for demonstrating maturity in the face of such contempt.

[MechaKnifehead]

  A lot of people had it coming.  Some had it coming that never got it for instigating.  Rebor's statements were ignorant in the truest sense of the word, though.  I've never said otherwise. 

  And again I'll state that the defense of Doug Watson's sculpting may have been well meaning but it was poor.  For an adequate defense you would have to compare his prototype sculpture (which I'm sure was leagues ahead of the final product) with Rebor's prototype (which is very close to the final product).

  I own the WS Acro and honestly I can't believe it's a $10 figure of a relatively obscure carnosaur that actually balances on two feet.  But it lacks the production values of the Rebor stuff.  So comparing a copy that China spat back at us is hardly fair.

[Kayakasaurus]

Congratulations Doug!  Over 200 pieces, that is awesome!  Then, when you add the fact that almost a million models that you sculpted, is in the hands of collectors and kids all over the world, that is truly amazing thought.

Thank you. Yes, I'll be able to say "Over a million served, do you want fries with that?"

I'll take fries with dinosaurs anyday!

[Dinoguy2]

I was shocked by how rude some posts in the Rebor Yutyrannus thread were, and how badly Rebor was treated.  That seemed to stop some time last year, after moderators took action.  Not long after that though, the opposite has happened - some members started being rude to others while expressing their support for Rebor, and then to my surprise Rebor also started being rude in some of their posts.  It seems like retaliation for something that had been dealt with.

Personally, I'm interested in prehistoric animal reconstructions that look like a real animal that once lived, with good accuracy, based on what is know of it.  I greatly value research and knowledge that's put into a reconstruction.  It's for these reasons I really like the figures Doug Watson and Dan LoRusso are bringing us.  I have no interest in reconstructions where people alter an animal's physical appearance from what is known of it because they don't really care about it being accurate and/or to try to make it more appealing (I don't think a deliberately altered reconstruction is ever more appealing than the real animal).  That's why I have no interest in the prehistoric figures that have been made by Papo, Schleich, and Rebor too I've realised.  It seems there are people who like them for what they are, which is fair enough.  Calling/implying they are highly accurate representations of prehistoric animals when they're not though is likely to justly result in people pointing out this isn't correct.

I hope that now things can move on and Rebor discussions can be without rudeness.  After all, something has to end before something new can begin!

Just to chime in, I agree 100% with this, and I'd add that this seems to be a big source of never ending conflict:
Some people are more into paleo art, and some people are more into dinosaur art.
Paleoart is what you described in your post. Dinosaur art is art showing dinosaurs as pop culture icons, in a more comic book type style, or monstrous style, or a style inspired by movies and awesomebro culture.

Both things are perfectly good and fine, but people tend to get very prickly and defensive when those lines get blurred, like calling a Rebor or Papo version of the JP T. rex "museum quality". This would be like the producers of Captain America marketing it as a World War II film. People interested mainly in historical fiction would be up in arms criticizing it, comic book fans would say they're crazy because the movie is awesome.

That doesn't happen because comic movies and history movies are marketed differently in different genres. We desperately need the same thing with dinosaurs. Can we please finally admit to ourselves that Collecta/Safari/Sideshow and Papo/Rebor are not even attempting to make the same kind of figures? And can these companies please finally realize that you can't market dinosaur toys to paleoart toy fans without getting us riled up about accuracy?

[Shadowknight1]

Congratulations Doug!  Over 200 pieces, that is awesome!  Then, when you add the fact that almost a million models that you sculpted, is in the hands of collectors and kids all over the world, that is truly amazing thought.

Thank you. Yes, I'll be able to say "Over a million served, do you want fries with that?"

I'll take fries with dinosaurs anyday!

Wonder if dinosaurs would taste like chicken.

[tanystropheus]

I was shocked by how rude some posts in the Rebor Yutyrannus thread were, and how badly Rebor was treated.  That seemed to stop some time last year, after moderators took action.  Not long after that though, the opposite has happened - some members started being rude to others while expressing their support for Rebor, and then to my surprise Rebor also started being rude in some of their posts.  It seems like retaliation for something that had been dealt with.

Personally, I'm interested in prehistoric animal reconstructions that look like a real animal that once lived, with good accuracy, based on what is know of it.  I greatly value research and knowledge that's put into a reconstruction.  It's for these reasons I really like the figures Doug Watson and Dan LoRusso are bringing us.  I have no interest in reconstructions where people alter an animal's physical appearance from what is known of it because they don't really care about it being accurate and/or to try to make it more appealing (I don't think a deliberately altered reconstruction is ever more appealing than the real animal).  That's why I have no interest in the prehistoric figures that have been made by Papo, Schleich, and Rebor too I've realised.  It seems there are people who like them for what they are, which is fair enough.  Calling/implying they are highly accurate representations of prehistoric animals when they're not though is likely to justly result in people pointing out this isn't correct.

I hope that now things can move on and Rebor discussions can be without rudeness.  After all, something has to end before something new can begin!

Can we please finally admit to ourselves that Collecta/Safari/Sideshow and Papo/Rebor are not even attempting to make the same kind of figures? And can these companies please finally realize that you can't market dinosaur toys to paleoart toy fans without getting us riled up about accuracy?

The problem with that perspective is that it reeks of intellectual elitism. Papo falls under the same category of toys as CollectA, Safari, Battat, Schleich, Bullyland, and Carnegie. There is clearly a shift in vision with respect to the type of toys that Papo are delivering in 2015 when compared to the JP-inspired figures that they released a couple years earlier. Papo is either "relatively" inaccurate or "relatively" accurate. Newer Papos generally have on average 1-2 anatomical issues (this is on par with the number of anatomical issues found on recent CollectAs). Yes, the Papo Carnotaurus has a wide snout, especially when compared to the SS, but you are also paying a couple hundred dollars more for the SS version. Okay, you don't want a wide snout Carnotaurus. Well, how okay are you with a tripod version (Carnegie)? The SS and Papo Tupuxuara are 99% accurate; both models seem to be be lacking pycnofibers. So, the Papo Styracosaurus has a relatively long neck...What other models of Styraco have a long neck? The Favorite Soft Model Series 2 version, X-plus and Kaiyodo Styracosaurus also sport long necks. Give Papo a break 

[Shadowknight1]

Oh, and I'd like to add, Doug, while I do plan on purchasing REBOR products in the future, I do not agree with their comments on your models, especially your Acrocanthosaurus.  It is a darn fine model that I'm proud to own alongside the Yutyrannus.

[DinoToyForum]

I was shocked by how rude some posts in the Rebor Yutyrannus thread were, and how badly Rebor was treated.  That seemed to stop some time last year, after moderators took action.  Not long after that though, the opposite has happened - some members started being rude to others while expressing their support for Rebor, and then to my surprise Rebor also started being rude in some of their posts.  It seems like retaliation for something that had been dealt with.

Personally, I'm interested in prehistoric animal reconstructions that look like a real animal that once lived, with good accuracy, based on what is know of it.  I greatly value research and knowledge that's put into a reconstruction.  It's for these reasons I really like the figures Doug Watson and Dan LoRusso are bringing us.  I have no interest in reconstructions where people alter an animal's physical appearance from what is known of it because they don't really care about it being accurate and/or to try to make it more appealing (I don't think a deliberately altered reconstruction is ever more appealing than the real animal).  That's why I have no interest in the prehistoric figures that have been made by Papo, Schleich, and Rebor too I've realised.  It seems there are people who like them for what they are, which is fair enough.  Calling/implying they are highly accurate representations of prehistoric animals when they're not though is likely to justly result in people pointing out this isn't correct.

I hope that now things can move on and Rebor discussions can be without rudeness.  After all, something has to end before something new can begin!

Can we please finally admit to ourselves that Collecta/Safari/Sideshow and Papo/Rebor are not even attempting to make the same kind of figures? And can these companies please finally realize that you can't market dinosaur toys to paleoart toy fans without getting us riled up about accuracy?

The problem with that perspective is that it reeks of intellectual elitism.

I don't understand the concern about elitism. How is it elitist to acknowledge that different companies have different remits, or to care about accuracy? I appreciate that accuracy is not the be all and end all, but for me, discussing the relative merits of a figure from a scientific perspective is part of the fun - that's sort of what the dinotoyblog is all about. So long as we can do it in a polite and constructive way, I don't see the problem.

[tanystropheus]

I was shocked by how rude some posts in the Rebor Yutyrannus thread were, and how badly Rebor was treated.  That seemed to stop some time last year, after moderators took action.  Not long after that though, the opposite has happened - some members started being rude to others while expressing their support for Rebor, and then to my surprise Rebor also started being rude in some of their posts.  It seems like retaliation for something that had been dealt with.

Personally, I'm interested in prehistoric animal reconstructions that look like a real animal that once lived, with good accuracy, based on what is know of it.  I greatly value research and knowledge that's put into a reconstruction.  It's for these reasons I really like the figures Doug Watson and Dan LoRusso are bringing us.  I have no interest in reconstructions where people alter an animal's physical appearance from what is known of it because they don't really care about it being accurate and/or to try to make it more appealing (I don't think a deliberately altered reconstruction is ever more appealing than the real animal).  That's why I have no interest in the prehistoric figures that have been made by Papo, Schleich, and Rebor too I've realised.  It seems there are people who like them for what they are, which is fair enough.  Calling/implying they are highly accurate representations of prehistoric animals when they're not though is likely to justly result in people pointing out this isn't correct.

I hope that now things can move on and Rebor discussions can be without rudeness.  After all, something has to end before something new can begin!

Can we please finally admit to ourselves that Collecta/Safari/Sideshow and Papo/Rebor are not even attempting to make the same kind of figures? And can these companies please finally realize that you can't market dinosaur toys to paleoart toy fans without getting us riled up about accuracy?

The problem with that perspective is that it reeks of intellectual elitism.

I don't understand the concern about elitism. How is it elitist to acknowledge that different companies have different remits, or to care about accuracy? I appreciate that accuracy is not the be all and end all, but for me, discussing the relative merits of a figure from a scientific perspective is part of the fun - that's sort of what the dinotoyblog is all about. So long as we can do it in a polite and constructive way, I don't see the problem.

It's more of an issue if Papo models are given the oversimplified label of "movie monsters".  Papo has proven to be capable of making dinosaurs that are not strictly hollywood.

[DinoToyForum]

I was shocked by how rude some posts in the Rebor Yutyrannus thread were, and how badly Rebor was treated.  That seemed to stop some time last year, after moderators took action.  Not long after that though, the opposite has happened - some members started being rude to others while expressing their support for Rebor, and then to my surprise Rebor also started being rude in some of their posts.  It seems like retaliation for something that had been dealt with.

Personally, I'm interested in prehistoric animal reconstructions that look like a real animal that once lived, with good accuracy, based on what is know of it.  I greatly value research and knowledge that's put into a reconstruction.  It's for these reasons I really like the figures Doug Watson and Dan LoRusso are bringing us.  I have no interest in reconstructions where people alter an animal's physical appearance from what is known of it because they don't really care about it being accurate and/or to try to make it more appealing (I don't think a deliberately altered reconstruction is ever more appealing than the real animal).  That's why I have no interest in the prehistoric figures that have been made by Papo, Schleich, and Rebor too I've realised.  It seems there are people who like them for what they are, which is fair enough.  Calling/implying they are highly accurate representations of prehistoric animals when they're not though is likely to justly result in people pointing out this isn't correct.

I hope that now things can move on and Rebor discussions can be without rudeness.  After all, something has to end before something new can begin!

Can we please finally admit to ourselves that Collecta/Safari/Sideshow and Papo/Rebor are not even attempting to make the same kind of figures? And can these companies please finally realize that you can't market dinosaur toys to paleoart toy fans without getting us riled up about accuracy?

The problem with that perspective is that it reeks of intellectual elitism.

I don't understand the concern about elitism. How is it elitist to acknowledge that different companies have different remits, or to care about accuracy? I appreciate that accuracy is not the be all and end all, but for me, discussing the relative merits of a figure from a scientific perspective is part of the fun - that's sort of what the dinotoyblog is all about. So long as we can do it in a polite and constructive way, I don't see the problem.

It's more of an issue if Papo models are given the oversimplified label of "movie monsters".  Papo has proven to be capable of making dinosaurs that are not strictly hollywood.

It's certainly an oversimplification if people are saying that, but not intellectually elitist.

[TJ_Terrorsaur]

So we might have had a sneak peak at the newest Rebor hatchling, it was on their Facebook page this morning. A baby Ankylosaurus with this as the description.
"Hey whats up?"
"Oh nothing much, kinda got stuck"
"Join the club!"

As far as I can tell this little one's egg looks more detailed than Jolly's did as well as a more slimy looking baby dino. I like to think Rebor are like budding artists they can only get better. (I know if I didn't practice my drawing I'd still be at square one). So anyhow I'll post a link! https://www.facebook.com/reborstudio?fref=ts