Best/Worst Documentaries

[Himmapaan]

I would love to see a well done stop motion dinosaur movie but I don't think that will happen.

Ditto. I remember a small conversation on a similar theme sometime ago over on V.1. It's too sad that it's so unlikely to happen.

Damnit, if I had the time, knowledge, support, means and all the right resources, I'd be doing it myself.

[Metallisuchus]

I'm surprised that no one mentioned the Paleoworld series, I've watched nearly every episode and most of them were pretty good at the time.

That show was great. I'm sure there were some inaccuracies, but you know how that goes. I really wish they'd bring it back. I'd love to own a DVD box set.

[Takama]

I just looked up the date of Dinosaur


OMG 1985.  This makes it a good refrence to see how people seen dinosaurs around that time

[Patrx]

For some reason, i like those Clymation dinosaurs better then todays CGI-a-saurs. mybe its the fact that they actaully look REAL.

Just to play devil's advocate for a moment here:
I miss stop-motion as well, I think it can be (and has been) done very convincingly. The models are real, so they're easier to light and composite effectively, they can have feathers and hair (and pycnofibres) without costing a fortune - however, at its best, CGI animation offers possibilities that stop-motion simply can't, and so, its potential for realism is much greater. That said, there is a reason why the dinosaurs in "Dinosaur!" look so much better than the ones in, say, Discovery's "Dinosaurs Unearthed". "Unearthed" used awful CGI - awkward models, poor lighting and textures, and stilted animation. If that show had been able to take fuller advantage of the technology, the dinosaurs could've had muscles that flexed and skin with blood vessels in and weight that shifted about, as well as other things that stop motion could never achieve. As it is, we saw twitchy little videogame lizards - and I would indeed take stop-motion over that.

I would like to see a resurgence of stop-motion effects - part of what's historically made them look unconvincing are things that could now be remedied by modern compositing techniques. We could easily add motion-blur (Go-Motion style) and clean up matte lines and such now. I think lower-budget productions would benefit greatly from using stop-motion for creature effects instead of dodgy budget-CGI.
Regardless, no amount of money can buy animating talent, and that's the axis upon which any creature effect really balances.

[DinoFan45]

For some reason, i like those Clymation dinosaurs better then todays CGI-a-saurs. mybe its the fact that they actaully look REAL.

Just to play devil's advocate for a moment here:
I miss stop-motion as well, I think it can be (and has been) done very convincingly. The models are real, so they're easier to light and composite effectively, they can have feathers and hair (and pycnofibres) without costing a fortune - however, at its best, CGI animation offers possibilities that stop-motion simply can't, and so, its potential for realism is much greater. That said, there is a reason why the dinosaurs in "Dinosaur!" look so much better than the ones in, say, Discovery's "Dinosaurs Unearthed". "Unearthed" used awful CGI - awkward models, poor lighting and textures, and stilted animation. If that show had been able to take fuller advantage of the technology, the dinosaurs could've had muscles that flexed and skin with blood vessels in and weight that shifted about, as well as other things that stop motion could never achieve. As it is, we saw twitchy little videogame lizards - and I would indeed take stop-motion over that.

I would like to see a resurgence of stop-motion effects - part of what's historically made them look unconvincing are things that could now be remedied by modern compositing techniques. We could easily add motion-blur (Go-Motion style) and clean up matte lines and such now. I think lower-budget productions would benefit greatly from using stop-motion for creature effects instead of dodgy budget-CGI.
Regardless, no amount of money can buy animating talent, and that's the axis upon which any creature effect really balances.

And then everyone would watch the Sci fi channel's movie. And crappy documentaries would be much more enjoyable.

[Himmapaan]

Just to play devil's advocate for a moment here:
I miss stop-motion as well, I think it can be (and has been) done very convincingly. The models are real, so they're easier to light and composite effectively, they can have feathers and hair (and pycnofibres) without costing a fortune - however, at its best, CGI animation offers possibilities that stop-motion simply can't, and so, its potential for realism is much greater. That said, there is a reason why the dinosaurs in "Dinosaur!" look so much better than the ones in, say, Discovery's "Dinosaurs Unearthed". "Unearthed" used awful CGI - awkward models, poor lighting and textures, and stilted animation. If that show had been able to take fuller advantage of the technology, the dinosaurs could've had muscles that flexed and skin with blood vessels in and weight that shifted about, as well as other things that stop motion could never achieve. As it is, we saw twitchy little videogame lizards - and I would indeed take stop-motion over that.

I would like to see a resurgence of stop-motion effects - part of what's historically made them look unconvincing are things that could now be remedied by modern compositing techniques. We could easily add motion-blur (Go-Motion style) and clean up matte lines and such now. I think lower-budget productions would benefit greatly from using stop-motion for creature effects instead of dodgy budget-CGI.
Regardless, no amount of money can buy animating talent, and that's the axis upon which any creature effect really balances.

Agreed entirely.

My own wish to see more stop-motion animation is from a purely artistic standpoint, not because I think it would necessarily be more 'realistic' than CGI. A stop-motion animation enhanced and refined by additional digital techniques as mentioned in your last paragraph would just be heaven-sent.

[Gwangi]

I agree also. Stop motion at its best is still a far cry from CGI at its best but I would much prefer stop motion over bad CGI.

To get a taste of what a stop motion Jurassic Park would be like check this out. Not bad I must say.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEK9mitagS8

[Himmapaan]

That is pretty friggin' awesome.

[Horridus]

That is pretty friggin' awesome.

The 'Making of JP' documentary shows a stop-motion Velociraptor test as well (as well as the stop-motion cinematics, which don't really count as they aren't meant to resemble the finished product).

They're very good, but the CG was definitely more convincing. No way you could get away with a gigantic stop-motion brachiosaur or tyrannosaur filling the screen. Of course, the same applies to bad CG...actually, the Jurassic Park movies were excellent in the way they blended robotics with CG, rather than go one way or the other. It actually contributed to the realism.

But I digress.

[Himmapaan]

That is pretty friggin' awesome.

The 'Making of JP' documentary shows a stop-motion Velociraptor test as well (as well as the stop-motion cinematics, which don't really count as they aren't meant to resemble the finished product).

They're very good, but the CG was definitely more convincing. No way you could get away with a gigantic stop-motion brachiosaur or tyrannosaur filling the screen. Of course, the same applies to bad CG...actually, the Jurassic Park movies were excellent in the way they blended robotics with CG, rather than go one way or the other. It actually contributed to the realism.

But I digress.

Oh, yes, I agree (as per my reply to Pixelboy above). But that combination employed by Jurassic Park is absolutely sterling, and one filmmakers should continue to use instead of relying solely and slavishly on CGI. Bad CGI aside, the glut of digital imagery means that after a while, we don't feel swayed by their purported believability any longer and consequently cease to admire the skill it may have taken to create such sequences.

I would be utterly delirious to see a documentary which combines stop motion such as the one Art posted above with CGI.

[Horridus]

I would be utterly delirious to see a documentary which combines stop motion such as the one Art posted above with CGI.

Or even Stan Winston-level robotics/puppetry with CGI, in the style of Jurassic Park. WWD did actually combine puppetry and CG, but the joins were painfully visible. I think this is why subsequent docus have tended to avoid doing so.

[Takama]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hox0UfY0YQ

[Himmapaan]

Was that the Velociraptor sequence you mentioned earlier, Marc (the one Takama posted)?

[Joel]

Has anyone heard of The Ultimate Guide series? The one on Tyrannosaurus is one of my favorite dino documentaries.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6nS33YCem0

[Horridus]

Was that the Velociraptor sequence you mentioned earlier, Marc (the one Takama posted)?

Yeah, that's the animatic. Used basically as a moving storyboard. Someone's added the soundtrack from the film.

[Seijun]

I would totally love to watch JP1 played out entirely by stop motion dinosaurs and barbie and ken dolls.

Also, my favorite documentary is WWD and its spinoffs. I haven't really watched any others, aside from an occasional clip or stray episode, but nothing else has ever captured my attention the same way. I especially loved Walking with Monsters and Walking with Prehistoric Beasts.

[Yutyrannus]

I think Planet Dinosaur and especially Dinosaur Revolution are the best!

[Gwangi]

Has anyone heard of The Ultimate Guide series? The one on Tyrannosaurus is one of my favorite dino documentaries.

I love the Ultimate Guide series. They have a lot of episodes about extant animals as well, all worth checking out.

[Metallisuchus]

Has anyone heard of The Ultimate Guide series? The one on Tyrannosaurus is one of my favorite dino documentaries.

I love the Ultimate Guide series. They have a lot of episodes about extant animals as well, all worth checking out.

Ultimate Guide... What station is that on? I don't believe I've even heard of it.

[Joel]

Ultimate Guide... What station is that on? I don't believe I've even heard of it.

It was on the Discovery Channel during the 90's.

I'd also like to add that I like Walking With Dinosaurs (even if the dinosaur restorations didn't seem right, like with the theropod forlimbs) and of course, Dinosaur Revolution!

As for Planet Dinosaur, I thought it focused too much on theropods, and it seemed kind of dull. Also irritating was they keep perpetuating the idea "ZMOG SPINOSAURUS WAS THE BIGGEST CARNIVORE EVER!!!", while we only have less than 20% of a complete specimen.