Best/Worst Documentaries

[tyrantqueen]

I just checked out this Horizon doc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8D3oN-jSFPQ

I like Horizon documentaries anyway, but this was quite interesting (although a bit dated). It has Bakker too

The part that really made me mad was Jack Horner saying "they don't make very good sense as a predator" and talking about how a T.rex's teeth would have probably broken off if it had bitten into Triceratops. WTF?

I can't believe this guy is actually a paleontologist. He obviously has a bias against tyrannosaurus. I'm not saying everyone has to love Tyrannosaurus, but he should at least put his personal feelings aside where science is involved.

[Gwangi]

It would be strange for him to have a bias against Tyrannosaurus given the amount of work he has done with them. I remember reading a book by Horner specifically about Tyrannosaurus. It was quite good...but I read it when I was in 8th grade so perhaps my memory is off.

I think all Horner originally set out to do was apply some critical thinking to the subject. That we shouldn't make blanket statements about something being a predator when we don't really know and that's fine. The thing is, Tyrannosaurus was a predator and the evidence shows us that. For him to continue on with this is embarrassing...for him.

I really used to enjoy Horner back in the early 90's when he talked about his work with hadrosaur nests and the dinosaur/bird connection. Now I pay little attention to him, he seems to have a few loose screws. I wish television shows would stop turning to him as a consultant or talking head. There are a lot of paleontologists doing much more interesting and valid work these days than he currently is.

[Blade-of-the-Moon]

I had the same view of Horner myself back then, I still the fellow has done enough to warrant respect.  In regards to T-Rex, I can't imagine how he doesn't see how T-Rex was both a predator when it had too and a scavenger when it could like all other predatory animals. Yeah it it bit down into a thrashing dinosaur with the weight of a Trike then it's quite possible it could loose a few teeth. It happens all the time.   Honestly I think his bias is more against Bakker.  I mean you saw what did to the Bakker character in the Lost World Jurassic Park ? I honestly think that was uncalled for and in bad form.  I think perhaps he's just let dug so far into this hole he has he can't admit he's wrong.

[Yutyrannus]

I somewhat agree with Jack Horner that Tyrannosaurus was mostly a scavenger, but that is because it would often have the opportunity to steal from smaller predators. However I am sure it hunted when it needed too. Also after Horner had Bakker eaten in the Jurassic Park 2 movie, didn't that prompt Bakker to tell him "See, they do hunt!"

[Balaur]

I somewhat agree with Jack Horner that Tyrannosaurus was mostly a scavenger, but that is because it would often have the opportunity to steal from smaller predators. However I am sure it hunted when it needed too. Also after Horner had Bakker eaten in the Jurassic Park 2 movie, didn't that prompt Bakker to tell him "See, they do hunt!"

That is right Yutyrannus! I loved that response from Bakker!

To be honest, I don't hate Jack Horner, and I like how he is teaching people not to come to immediate conclusions without evidence.

Anyways, I watched Speckles the Tarbosaurus, and I couldn't stand it after two minutes. I had to click the back arrow.

[Gwangi]

I somewhat agree with Jack Horner that Tyrannosaurus was mostly a scavenger, but that is because it would often have the opportunity to steal from smaller predators. However I am sure it hunted when it needed too. Also after Horner had Bakker eaten in the Jurassic Park 2 movie, didn't that prompt Bakker to tell him "See, they do hunt!"

There is at least one flaw in that logic. The Hell Creek formation where Tyrannosaurus occurs is pretty well studied and so far at least Tyrannosaurus is the only large carnivorous theropod that seems to have lived at that time and place. What would it steal from? Possibly Nanotyrannus but that genus might just be a younger Tyrannosaurus. Does that mean older Tyrannosaurus were stealing from younger animals? It is certainly possible but there is no way a large terrestrial animal like Tyrannosaurus could sustain itself on the remains of kills from younger Tyrannosaurus. There were also small theropods like Oviraptor and Troodon but I really don't think they were killing animals large enough to sustain Tyrannosaurus either. No, I think Tyrannosaurus was likely an active predator and scavenged when it could as opposed to vise versa.

According to Wikipedia that Bakker quote is correct. I don't know if Horner and Bakker are actually enemies or if their differences are mostly just for show with example like in "The Lost World" being a fun jab.

Personally I think Bakker is pretty far out there too but I really enjoyed him in documentaries when I was growing up and of course loved both "Dinosaur Heresies" and "Raptor Red".

[tyrantqueen]

If T.rex was mostly a scavenger, then other theropods must have been so too. I think T.rex would have done whatever it could to survive, hunting or scavenging would both work.

I think Bakker rocks. The guy helped popularise the warm blooded idea of dinosaurs, and he is a Christian who advocates evolution (not trying to get into any debates here, but it's a good thing to see) Probably my favourite paleontologist.

[Gwangi]

If T.rex was mostly a scavenger, then other theropods must have been so too. I think T.rex would have done whatever it could to survive, hunting or scavenging would both work.

I think Bakker rocks. The guy helped popularise the warm blooded idea of dinosaurs, and he is a Christian who advocates evolution (not trying to get into any debates here, but it's a good thing to see) Probably my favourite paleontologist.

Well Tyrannosaurus was quite different from the other large theropods what with its tiny arms, bone crushing teeth and excellent sense of smell and I think that is why some assumed it acted like a giant vulture whereas other theropods seemed better designed "for the hunt". I don't think anyone would argue that Allosaurus for example was a hunter, it looks like an animal that actively hunted.

Oh and I don't mean to talk ill of Bakker, he does rock, even still. Some of his theories were pretty wacky though and I think his view of dinosaur behavior is very...liberal? Honestly I would really like him to come out with another book...a sequel to heresies if you will.

[CityRaptor]

Bone Crushing teeth are not really a sign of a scavenger. Look at the Spotted Hyena. Has exactly those, yet it hunts around 95% of its prey itself.

[Gwangi]

Bone Crushing teeth are not really a sign of a scavenger. Look at the Spotted Hyena. Has exactly those, yet it hunts around 95% of its prey itself.

I know that as well as you do. I'm not advocating the hypothesis, it is just an example of a feature unique to tyrannosaurs that one could use to argue for the scavenger hypothesis if they wanted to do so and it has been done. One could argue that to maximize the intake of material from partially eaten prey a species might evolve the ability to consume its skeletal material.

[CityRaptor]

Ofcourse it could also be interpreted as allowing something to more succesfully fight armored prey. I think I read something about that somewhere.

[FUTABA]

I could make a long and detailed list explaining my favourites and my dislikes, but I pretty much agree with what the majority here have to say. Even the terrible "RAAWR AWESOME DINO MONSTERZZ BRO YURR!!!11" ones are still... somewhat watchable for me at least As they say, beggars can't be choosers. I do fear it might end up warping my education a bit but as long as I keep preferring to feel educated with published evidence etc instead of movie effects and loud grunts I think I'm safe.

Anyway, I'll make a short list for the sake of it:

Faves:
WWD (Set the benchmark pretty much, and the wildlife documentary theme is brilliant)
WWD spinoffs (Original in their own way, fun and reasonably informative at the same time. Just good concepts)
Planet Dinosaur (The CG was a bit disappointing, although in my opinion the aquatic scenes along with the feathered dinosaurs were alright thankfully. I liked the way they presented  the evidence. Mildly annoying though how John Hurt kept referring to Daspletosaurus as "Desplatosaurus")
March of the Dinosaurs (More movie than documentary I admit, but the feathered Tyrannosaurs really refreshed my perspective of them. Prior to watching that I was a bit bored with their overhyped status. Yes, they are depicted as the standard 'villains' of the film, but feathers make everything better, 'kay. Also Patch the Troodon is a-freaking-dorable).
The Four Winged Dinosaur - Horizon [ermm, I meant not Horizon] (Very informative, great, albeit frustrating, to see the opposing views of the experts, very interesting to see how different people can take the same evidence and come up with completely different conclusions, highly recommended for anyone who wishes to escape the 'Awesome bro' culture that dinosaurs have unfortunately been lumped into.)
The Dinosaur that Fooled the World - Horizon (Again, the informative layout with FACTS and scientific evidence instead of oogie boogie monsters with lazers coming out of their teeth and people shouting "bro". A highly interesting story and serves a lesson not to ignore situations like that again.)

Dislikes: Clash of the Dinosaurs (Even though I still watch it occasionally simply for the imagery)
Dinotasia ( WHAT THE HELL? It's just contextless scenes with the doctor from the Human Centipede narrating in cryptic overly poetic dialect. Dinosaur Revolution [Reign of the Dinosaurs or whatever you want to call it] did a much better job by simply arranging the scenes into coherant, logical sequences with explanations to what is actually occurring. Yeah, the action and stories are OTT, but I find it kind of charming, reminds me a bit of the Gon manga series by Masashi Tanaka which I'm a fan of)
Monsters Resurrected (I've only seen the SUPER SPINOLORD DEATH MACHINE OF DOOM WITH ADDED CAR CRUSHING ACTION!!!1 one [I think that's the title] but it just serves as fuel to the bros and the kids that feign geekiness by posing with their gameboys on Youtube)


To list just a few.

I haven't seen Jurassic Fight Club but going by the title I don't think I want to.

Anyway, I'm sure there are many I've missed out on, both likes and dislikes.

[Balaur]

I could make a long and detailed list explaining my favourites and my dislikes, but I pretty much agree with what the majority here have to say. Even the terrible "RAAWR AWESOME DINO MONSTERZZ BRO YURR!!!11" ones are still... somewhat watchable for me at least As they say, beggars can't be choosers. I do fear it might end up warping my education a bit but as long as I keep preferring to feel educated with published evidence etc instead of movie effects and loud grunts I think I'm safe.

Anyway, I'll make a short list for the sake of it:

Faves:
WWD (Set the benchmark pretty much, and the wildlife documentary theme is brilliant)
WWD spinoffs (Original in their own way, fun and reasonably informative at the same time. Just good concepts)
Planet Dinosaur (The CG was a bit disappointing, although in my opinion the aquatic scenes along with the feathered dinosaurs were alright thankfully. I liked the way they presented  the evidence. Mildly annoying though how John Hurt kept referring to Daspletosaurus as "Desplatosaurus")
March of the Dinosaurs (More movie than documentary I admit, but the feathered Tyrannosaurs really refreshed my perspective of them. Prior to watching that I was a bit bored with their overhyped status. Yes, they are depicted as the standard 'villains' of the film, but feathers make everything better, 'kay. Also Patch the Troodon is a-freaking-dorable.
The Four Winged Dinosaur - Horizon (Very informative, great, albeit frustrating, to see the opposing views of the experts, very interesting to see how different people can take the same evidence and come up with completely different conclusions, highly recommended for anyone who wishes to escape the 'Awesome bro' culture that dinosaurs have unfortunately been lumped into.)
The Dinosaur that Fooled the World - Horizon (Again, the informative layout with FACTS and scientific evidence instead of oogie boogie monsters with lazers coming out of their teeth and people shouting "bro". A highly interesting story and serves a lesson not to ignore situations like that again.)

Dislikes: Clash of the Dinosaurs (Even though I still watch it occasionally simply for the imagery)
Dinotasia ( WHAT THE HELL? It's just contextless scenes with the doctor from the Human Centipede narrating in cryptic overly poetic dialect. Dinosaur Revolution [Reign of the Dinosaurs or whatever you want to call it] did a much better job by simply arranging the scenes into coherant, logical sequences with explanations to what is actually occurring. Yeah, the action and stories are OTT, but I find it kind of charming, reminds me a bit of the Gon manga series by Masashi Tanaka which I'm a fan of)
Monsters Resurrected (I've only seen the SUPER SPINOLORD DEATH MACHINE OF DOOM WITH ADDED CAR CRUSHING ACTION!!!1 one [I think that's the title] but it just serves as fuel to the bros and the kids that feign geekiness by posing with their gameboys on Youtube)


To list just a few.

I haven't seen Jurassic Fight Club but going by the title I don't think I want to.

Anyway, I'm sure there are many I've missed out on, both likes and dislikes.

The Four Winged Dinosaur was Horizon? I currently have it in my iTunes library under NOVA. Or is Horizon like the British version of NOVA?

Anyways, I have seen Jurassic Fight Club, and it is horrible. It is so inaccurate, and so sensationalistic. Basically every episode plays out like this:

Tyrannosaurus vs. Nanotyrannus (yes, It's T.rex vs. T.rex)

Nanotyrannus invades Tyrannosaurus nest. Tyrannosaurus babies chirp. Nanotyrannus headbutts Tyrannosaurus to the ground. Nanotyrannus bites Tyrannosaurus baby neck. Critical hit!

They replay footage way too much, and the raptors all have pronated hands (forget that, ALL the theropods have pronated hands) and all are featherless.

I can't talk about it. Here's a link to a trope page to Jurassic Fight Club. It lists all the things that are wrong and its pretty funny.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Series/JurassicFightClub

[FUTABA]

Ah yeah it was NOVA. Don't know why I thought Horizon.

[Gwangi]

I actually preferred "Dinotasia" over "Dinosaur Revolution". I liked the minimal narration of it.

[tyrantqueen]

Or is Horizon like the British version of NOVA?

I have no idea what NOVA is, but Horizon was fantastic back in the '90s. Some of their documentaries used to frighten when I was younger (the one about the SARS epidemic for example) because of their dramatic style.

...Yes, I am weird

[Balaur]

Or is Horizon like the British version of NOVA?

I have no idea what NOVA is, but Horizon was fantastic back in the '90s. Some of their documentaries used to frighten when I was younger (the one about the SARS epidemic for example) because of their dramatic style.

...Yes, I am weird

NOVA is an American science programme on PBS. It's a wonderful programme, and covers all scientific topics. Physics, Technology, Archaeology, Biology and Paleontology. It's been around for almost 40 years, and it is actually very accurate, and is fun, enternaining, educational, and has very good editing.

Actually, NOVA was inspired by Horizon, and the first episode was actually a re-narrated Horizon episode. However, only 19 episodes are re-narrated Horizon episodes and the rest of the 600+ episodes are NOVA episodes. So its, just like a American version of Horizon. And unlike other science documentaries on other channels, this one is very good and doesn't sensationalize or anything.

So, yes, NOVA is just an American version of Horizon, and it is equally as good.

Now that I think of it, there should by a NOVA/Horizon style documentary only about paleontology.

[FUTABA]

I suppose it's easy to see why I got the two mixed up for a second then. And yes, I am blatantly trying to justify my moment of idiocy.

I actually preferred "Dinotasia" over "Dinosaur Revolution". I liked the minimal narration of it.

To me it just seemed like a bunch of random segments and neither a movie nor documentary, but perhaps that was just because it differed to my expectations. I have it on DVD though (paid £10 ) so perhaps I just need to give it a second viewing and I might see it in a different light now I know what to expect. Always willing to give things a second chance.

[Blade-of-the-Moon]

I would have preferred no narration at all...and longer more detailed segments with a better flow between divisions .  Maybe they could have had a brief intro to introduce what was about to be seen in each episode, then after it was over an " after show " where they summed it all up. 

[JurassicGeek09]

I think the one documentary that has really stood the test of time is PaleoWorld; at least the first season of it. Back then it was top of its game and I do kind of miss using dinosaur art, animatronics, and landscape shots to establish the "wow" factor vs the use of CG today. I guess it's nostalgic charm more than anything else. Plus, the show had the best theme music ever. I wish Dave Hummell would post it online some day...

My modern favourite would be Planet Dinosaur for two reasons. As far as I know, it's still the most up-to-date dino doc out there and it has great visuals. It's meant to educate and entertain rather than strictly entertain like the silly Jurassic Fight Club or Monsters Resurrected (two of the worst ever). Walking With Dinosaurs would be my second favourite because of its presentation style (that is, portraying dinosaurs like modern docs portray animals in their own habitat) but it's outdated at this point, plus some of their dinosaurs weren't totally accurate in their portrayal, even for their time.