JURASSIC WORLD: FALLEN KINGDOM

[Faelrin]

I thought you all might be interested in seeing these:

https://jurassicoutpost.com/new-concept-art-shows-alternative-opening-second-indoraptor-the-spinosaurus-and-early-designs-in-jurassic-world-fallen-kingdom/

Looks like the Sinoceratops was intended to be a Pachyrhinosaurus from the start after all (which would explain why the DPG list only had Pachyrhinosaurus originally, why the toy's sculpt is a Pachyrhinosaurus, why the name Pachyrhinosaurus shows up in multiple places still, like in the case of the mini figure, or the listing on Walmart for the roarivore, etc). I am disappointed with the fact that whoever designed the Pachyrhinosaurus, that was later renamed Sinoceratops (probably from fan complaints), didn't do any research. I'm not expecting something scientifically accurate here, but even the Dilophosaurus resembles one, minus the inclusion of the frill. At least Mattel did research for their sculpt, even if it now has to use the Sinoceratops name. You win some, you lose some.

[Appalachiosaurus]

I thought you all might be interested in seeing these:

https://jurassicoutpost.com/new-concept-art-shows-alternative-opening-second-indoraptor-the-spinosaurus-and-early-designs-in-jurassic-world-fallen-kingdom/

Looks like the Sinoceratops was intended to be a Pachyrhinosaurus from the start after all (which would explain why the DPG list only had Pachyrhinosaurus originally, why the toy's sculpt is a Pachyrhinosaurus, why the name Pachyrhinosaurus shows up in multiple places still, like in the case of the mini figure, or the listing on Walmart for the roarivore, etc). I am disappointed with the fact that whoever designed the Pachyrhinosaurus, that was later renamed Sinoceratops (probably from fan complaints), didn't do any research. I'm not expecting something scientifically accurate here, but even the Dilophosaurus resembles one, minus the inclusion of the frill. At least Mattel did research for their sculpt, even if it now has to use the Sinoceratops name. You win some, you lose some.

It still blows my mind that at one point there were going to have an 800 foot Mosasaur throw a Humpback whale out of the water like a seal. The Mosasaurs in FK is about 350ft if I remember correctly, which means the Mosa in that concept art would have been able to swallow the helicopter whole and probably wouldn't have been able to turn around in its own enclosure.

[stargatedalek]

I thought you all might be interested in seeing these:

https://jurassicoutpost.com/new-concept-art-shows-alternative-opening-second-indoraptor-the-spinosaurus-and-early-designs-in-jurassic-world-fallen-kingdom/

Looks like the Sinoceratops was intended to be a Pachyrhinosaurus from the start after all (which would explain why the DPG list only had Pachyrhinosaurus originally, why the toy's sculpt is a Pachyrhinosaurus, why the name Pachyrhinosaurus shows up in multiple places still, like in the case of the mini figure, or the listing on Walmart for the roarivore, etc). I am disappointed with the fact that whoever designed the Pachyrhinosaurus, that was later renamed Sinoceratops (probably from fan complaints), didn't do any research. I'm not expecting something scientifically accurate here, but even the Dilophosaurus resembles one, minus the inclusion of the frill. At least Mattel did research for their sculpt, even if it now has to use the Sinoceratops name. You win some, you lose some.

It still blows my mind that at one point there were going to have an 800 foot Mosasaur throw a Humpback whale out of the water like a seal. The Mosasaurs in FK is about 350ft if I remember correctly, which means the Mosa in that concept art would have been able to swallow the helicopter whole and probably wouldn't have been able to turn around in its own enclosure.

That whale is clearly not that an adult humpback. That whale is quite small going by the person clearly standing behind it.

And those 350 feet estimates were based on the great white shark in the trailer, they are not canonical.

[Appalachiosaurus]

I thought you all might be interested in seeing these:

https://jurassicoutpost.com/new-concept-art-shows-alternative-opening-second-indoraptor-the-spinosaurus-and-early-designs-in-jurassic-world-fallen-kingdom/

Looks like the Sinoceratops was intended to be a Pachyrhinosaurus from the start after all (which would explain why the DPG list only had Pachyrhinosaurus originally, why the toy's sculpt is a Pachyrhinosaurus, why the name Pachyrhinosaurus shows up in multiple places still, like in the case of the mini figure, or the listing on Walmart for the roarivore, etc). I am disappointed with the fact that whoever designed the Pachyrhinosaurus, that was later renamed Sinoceratops (probably from fan complaints), didn't do any research. I'm not expecting something scientifically accurate here, but even the Dilophosaurus resembles one, minus the inclusion of the frill. At least Mattel did research for their sculpt, even if it now has to use the Sinoceratops name. You win some, you lose some.

It still blows my mind that at one point there were going to have an 800 foot Mosasaur throw a Humpback whale out of the water like a seal. The Mosasaurs in FK is about 350ft if I remember correctly, which means the Mosa in that concept art would have been able to swallow the helicopter whole and probably wouldn't have been able to turn around in its own enclosure.

That whale is clearly not that an adult humpback. That whale is quite small going by the person clearly standing behind it.

And those 350 feet estimates were based on the great white shark in the trailer, they are not canonical.

No i'm not talking about that. ILM confirmed that the Mosa was about 120ft in the first movie:
https://eandt.theiet.org/content/articles/2018/06/interview-glen-mcintosh-animation-director-for-jurassic-world-fallen-kingdom/

Now, comparing the size of it from the two movies, it becomes clear how much it's grown:




The FK Mosa is about 3 times larger. Then now take a look at the size of the Mosa next to the whaling ship:


Just a guesstimation, but it looks to be about 2.5-3 times longer. The Yushin maru is a real ship in the Japanese whaling fleet that measures about 230ft long, making the Mosa in the concept art over 600ft (and it seems to spontaneously grow even more as the concept scene goes on).

[Faelrin]

Yeah the Mosasaurus in FK definitely doubled or tripled in size. There was a size chart that someone did recently posted on reddit at least, that used ILM's sizing (for the most part, based on availability), and showed how absurdly big the Mosasaurus was compared to other species, and how much bigger it "grew". It's probably safe to say as of FK, the thing is reaching Kaiju proportions.

[Shonisaurus]

Because of the criticism I have read on the Internet (I have not seen the film, which is reprehensible on my part but it is due to my economic situation) JW's film "The Fallen Kingdom" of Alejandro Bayona has had many errors and has been a unoriginal film and that has been the reason that has not been as successful as the film Steven Spielberg Jurassic World 2015.

I have not seen either of the two films but the criticism has been fierce against the Jurassic World movie "The Fallen Kingdom" despite its success has not managed to unseat as audience in the US in terms of millions of dollars of collection to the film of animation "The Incredibles" by Walt Disney. It is the fourth film to date in 2018 in terms of collection in the US but what has been said has many flaws by what I have commented on the reviews that take away the splendor of the JW saga started in 2015.

[MLMjp]

Because of the criticism I have read on the Internet (I have not seen the film, which is reprehensible on my part but it is due to my economic situation) JW's film "The Fallen Kingdom" of Alejandro Bayona has had many errors and has been a unoriginal film and that has been the reason that has not been as successful as the film Steven Spielberg Jurassic World 2015.

Shonisaurus, the director is called Juan Antonio Bayona or J.A. Bayona, not Alejandro.

[suspsy]

This was an amusing and accurate assessment. I like that it focuses entirely on problems with the film itself as opposed to scientific accuracy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRWazG4_egE

[stargatedalek]

Cinemasins, ugh. I hate that guy. So much.

Ten seconds in and they've added more "sins" for their own running gags and... puns? about Airforce One than for anything even from the movie.

He adds a sin for him not knowing how submarines work (they can't spin in place).

He added a sin for Comcast existing.

He added a sin for people not knowing that the dinosaur on an island full of dinosaurs that was out of sight was the T. rex.

He actively brags about his own lack of empathy and how he wants to see all of the animals killed off, several times, and adds sins for every time he feels like doing so. Later on he even tries to apply this logic to real animals and claims it's inaccurate to have dinosaurs be shown peacefully or empathetically, so no, that is not mischaracterizing his statements.

He tries to imply (not exactly subtly) that the movie doesn't understand animals and yet;
-he tries to use the argument that less than a dozen animals might become invasive species as justification for exterminating entire species
-repeatedly calls pterosaurs dinosaurs (wouldn't be nagging here except that he tried to make them not knowing about animals his argument)
-outright throws a tantrum that the movie shows some dinosaurs being tame and that Blue is trained (pretty much any animal can be trained [trained=/=domesticated])
-and claims it's impossible for large animals to sneak up on people.

He gives the movie a sin for not doing the silly thing that he expected them to do (giving Blue "T. rex powers"), while also admitting that it's better for not having done that.


There are plenty of actual problems with Jurassic World Fallen kingdom, but he failed to address any of them because that would have required knowing what makes a movie enjoyable, which this guy has clearly demonstrated his inability to comprehend.

Why anyone continues to patronize this garbage fire of a channel perplexes me.

When Trevorrow was hyping JW:FK up as some piece on animal rights I thought he was so far up his own, that he'd gone full blown PETA, and I was relieved that the movie took a stance that I genuinely thought we as humans living in educated society had already accepted near unanimously. But no. Apparently not. Apparently the very notion that animals shouldn't be driven to extinction solely because they are dangerous is still controversial.

I am genuinely disgusted.

[Appalachiosaurus]

I'm surprised Cinemasins still exists to be honest, then again the whole "hour long video about how the thing you like actually sucks" is still a popular medium so rampant negativity is an admirable persona I guess.

[Faelrin]

I'll wait until there's a CinemaWins one on this, if they do one. I'll pass on this one since it sounds like pointless negativity instead of actual legitimate criticisms (which at least the Honest Trailers video had a few of, such as some of the sequences being very Looney Tunes-esque, even if I did enjoy those scenes in the theater).

[suspsy]

He does often overly nitpick, but I do feel he raised quite a number of salient points about the plot holes occurring throughout the middle and ending of the film.

And I don't see why anyone should be surprised that movie panning is still highly popular.

[paintingdinos]

Cinemasins is funny to me because its over-the-top nitpicky. Lots of things are running gags that get "sinned" because its funny at this point to sin them, even if they completely make sense within the context of the film.

Also, pretty sure most people in the film's universe wanted to see the animals go extinct. They weren't even specifically villainized, considering MALCOM is one of them. Being angry for taking the position that genetically engineered dinosaurs, which probably never should have existing in the first place and really have no reasonable niche in a modern ecosystem, should be left to go extinct seems purely argumentative at this point.

The lysine contingency (however flawed it was) was a thing that's existed since the first novel. These were never normal animals that were meant to live in harmony in the modern world. They were never meant to leave the island and IF they ever did somehow, the idea was absolutely to terminate them.

[stargatedalek]

Except that he (Cinemasins) also applied that logic to real animals, seemingly as a joke, and repeated multiple times that animals "that are dangerous" or "have no place in society" should be destroyed. His reasoning wasn't good. His reason was "they've killed people, so they deserve to die, every last one of them", and no matter the context it is absolutely despicable and I stand by my assertion that it's a reflection of his genuine character.

Malcolm was always a pseudo-villain from the perspective of the audience, it's easy to forget since Jeff Goldblum is so likeable, but we're meant to hate him. He's supposed to be the obnoxious and self-entitled misanthrope type, overbearing and anti-fun. This was just the peak of that.

There were points in history where most of the population wanted bears, wolves, tigers, or alligators extinct. That's the point. It's meant to be analogous for anti-environmental motivations in politics and propaganda. And frankly I had thought it was an obvious and weak analogue, but apparently some people like Cinemasins didn't even get that, so I kind of have to take that back.

That's how bad Cinemasins is even at his only job. He literally forced me to respect a film more.

The only points of his that were genuine were the strange time skips and the US Senate's involvement being arbitrary. Everything else was either actively incorrect, wholly spiteful, or meaningless gags.

[paintingdinos]

I hear what you're saying in regards to a personal dislike for Cinemasins— everyone is entitled to like or dislike whatever they want.

But you can't use the Jurassic Park animals as an analog for bears, wolves, etc. Those were animals that had a firm ecological purpose, and removing them had serious impacts outside of just being generally sad that animals are being killed.

If anything, the JP dinos would be more closely analogous to an invasive species. They ARE dangerous and they weren't ever meant to exist anywhere outside of the theme park. Even if the Cinemasins guy was being kind of jerk about it and glossing over a real issue IRL, of course it makes sense to kill them/let them die. Arguing if the dinosaurs should be "preserved" would be like arguing we should continue to allow the release of Burmese Pythons into the Everglades because they're becoming endangered in their native range.

What I'm getting at is that I agree with his conclusion: let the dinos die already and stop wasting everyone's time, energy, and resources trying to protect them. Without going too far down the rabbit hole, you could also easily look at the JP animals like Pandas: critters that are publicly appealing and thus generate huge outpourings of support and funding to preserve them, despite them not even being one of the most critically endangered species and far from the most ecologically important. Meanwhile animals that one could argue have a far great ecological impact than Pandas and have better overall odds of recovery with dedicated conservation slip away because they aren't marketable enough to warrant million/billions in funding.

TLDR Cinemasins guy was crass about expressing his opinion but made a perfectly valid argument.

[paintingdinos]

sorry, trying to edit my other post and goofed 

[stargatedalek]

No one in the movie wanted to release the dinosaurs, it was a plot device forced upon them by the antagonists. Claire wanted to relocate them to another captive location.

A better analogue might be axolotl or blue macaws. Functionally extinct in the wild because their habitats no longer exist, but there is no reason they can't live on in captivity.

Pandas aren't a waste of resources because they don't contribute as much as say sharks, they are a waste of resources because of the politics surrounding them and the Chinese government essentially charging rent on captive pandas.

And if we're really going to pretend Cinemasins knows anything about Jurassic Park lore and factored that in, it's even less justified. All of the dinosaurs are surviving in single digit populations, aside from potentially Compsognathus. They are not going to become invasive. Even factoring in how larger animals are less likely to establish invasive populations, they were barely surviving on islands designated for them, and the populations are now so small it's impossible for most of them to even reproduce a single generation.

Dogs do not exist in the wild, we created them, and they do incredible amounts of damage to ecosystems around the world. Should we exterminate them?

[paintingdinos]

Most of the dinosaurs were shown as parts of larger populations by the time of Jurassic World. We don't know exactly how many of each species were taken off the island via the events of FK, but there were definitely multiples. It looked like only a few of each were shown at the mansion, so probably not enough to repopulate quickly, but the movie does such a BAD job of actually explaining any of that... who really knows?

Dog populations are absolutely killed off when they become a nuisance. I'm sure people remember Sochi— and that wasn't even for anything environmentally important... they just didn't like how they looked. They're also a completely domesticated species that was arguably integral to human evolution. Its not really a fair comparison, but I'd go so far as to argue that culling of invasive dog (and cat) populations is actually a good thing for many ecosystems... even if its unpleasant to think about.

[ChrisLikesDinos]

It looks like JW2 almost had a Tyrannosaurid:





This isn't placeholder for the Allosaurus, which also appears:




Via: https://youtu.be/spyut8pWRCE

[Faelrin]

Interesting. I wonder if the genus choice served as inspiration for the newly leaked Mattel one.