Bigfoot

[tyrantqueen]

The people behind the supposed hoax said they used a gorilla suit from that time.

Actually Roger Patterson maintained the film was real all his life, up until his death from cancer. Bob Gimlin also has stuck to his story. Maybe they're both fibbing, but they have never outright admitted to hoaxing the film.

You may be thinking of Bob Heironimus. He claimed to be the one wearing the suit in the film. I don't know what to think of Heironimus- a lot of his statements seem to be contradictory but he seems like an honest man.

I lean towards the film being fake.

For what it's worth, both Patterson and Heironimus have taken lie detector tests and passed. I don't put much faith in lie detectors anyway, but this seals the deal for me- how can men with contradictory statements both be tellling the truth?

Sorry if this is off topic, but this used to be a passion of mine.

[suspsy]

I'll tell you what would be very funny: if Safari did a variant of their Bigfoot with a zipper clearly sculpted down the back.

[Doug Watson]

The people behind the supposed hoax said they used a gorilla suit from that time.

Actually Roger Patterson maintained the film was real all his life, up until his death from cancer. Bob Gimlin also has stuck to his story. Maybe they're both fibbing, but they have never outright admitted to hoaxing the film.

You may be thinking of Bob Heironimus. He claimed to be the one wearing the suit in the film. I don't know what to think of Heironimus- a lot of his statements seem to be contradictory but he seems like an honest man.

I lean towards the film being fake.

For what it's worth, both Patterson and Heironimus have taken lie detector tests and passed. I don't put much faith in lie detectors anyway, but this seals the deal for me- how can men with contradictory statements both be tellling the truth?

Sorry if this is off topic, but this used to be a passion of mine.

Yes a bit off topic but what the heck.
It was Bob Heironimus and Philip Morris, Bob supposedly being the wearer and Phil the maker. Bob changed his story three times apparently about who made the costume, first Patterson, then Morris then Hollywood make up legend John Chambers. He also couldn't keep his facts straight on the make up of the suit. Morris made a second suit and had Bob prance around in it to prove their claims. The result was an epic and comedic fail, check it out.
I grew up on old horror films and saw lots of guys in gorilla suits in B movies nothing ever came close to the Patterson film. Even the very expensive suits Chambers did for 2001 A Space Odyssey in 1968 weren't close. Like I said before if someone can come forward and make a suit using 1967 materials and techniques and film it using 1967 equipment and get the same results then my mind might be changed but if the guys who supposedly did it can't I won't hold my breath. Polygraphs aren't foolproof and it could be Heironimus told the story enough he started to believe it especially if he thought he might cash in on it. I neither believe or disbelieve, I keep an open mind.
It is fun to think there is something out there.

[Doug Watson]

I'll tell you what would be very funny: if Safari did a variant of their Bigfoot with a zipper clearly sculpted down the back.

Come on @suspsy  I thought you were all about scientific accuracy, no such zipper is visible in the Patterson film. 

[suspsy]

I'll tell you what would be very funny: if Safari did a variant of their Bigfoot with a zipper clearly sculpted down the back.

Come on @suspsy  I thought you were all about scientific accuracy, no such zipper is visible in the Patterson film. 

Touché.

I don't know if you and TQ have already read it, but I strongly recommend Abominable Science by Donald Prothero. Prothero grew up firmly believing in Bigfoot, the Abominable Snowman, Nessie, and sea serpents, but he does a fine job in this book of deconstructing the alleged evidence for their existence, including the Patterson film.

https://www.amazon.ca/Abominable-Science-Origins-Nessie-Cryptids/dp/0231153201

Personally, I'd be ecstatic if a real live Bigfoot emerged from the woods and presented itself in front of a heap of people with smartphones.

[DinoToyForum]

I'll tell you what would be very funny: if Safari did a variant of their Bigfoot with a zipper clearly sculpted down the back.

Come on @suspsy  I thought you were all about scientific accuracy, no such zipper is visible in the Patterson film. 

Touché.

I don't know if you and TQ have already read it, but I strongly recommend Abominable Science by Donald Prothero. Prothero grew up firmly believing in Bigfoot, the Abominable Snowman, Nessie, and sea serpents, but he does a fine job in this book of deconstructing the alleged evidence for their existence, including the Patterson film.

https://www.amazon.ca/Abominable-Science-Origins-Nessie-Cryptids/dp/0231153201

Personally, I'd be ecstatic if a real live Bigfoot emerged from the woods and presented itself in front of a heap of people with smartphones.

Yeah, funny how the rise and eventual ubiquity of cameras has correlated with a decrease in photographic evidence. Funny, also, how the number of Bigfoot sightings have gone down as our ability to record evidence has gone up. The same is true for all the famous cryptids. Bigfoot and Nessie RIP. 

[Gwangi]

I had always found the Patterson footage compelling, I first saw it on Arthur C. Clarke's Mysterious World on the Discovery Channel when I was a kid, I was instantly obsessed. But it's not that compelling anymore, not with the technological advances we've had over the last couple decades. Motion cameras, cell phones, drones, there really aren't many places for a sasquatch to hide anymore. And if sasquatch was living in small pockets of the remote Canadian wilderness I could buy into it better, but bigfoot allegedly has a continent wide distribution. From Alaska to Florida we get sightings and tracks, blurry pictures, alleged hair samples. There are even reports of ape men in Australia and the UK, giving ape-men a worldwide distribution. That realization is what really sealed the deal for me. I find it easier to believe the Patterson footage is a hoax than in a population of giant apes that spans the entire globe.

I also highly recommend Prothero's book, Abominable Science. In addition to that I recommend the podcast "Monster Talk", and an early Tetzoo Podcast episode that deals with bigfoot specifically. I find these topics just as interesting as a skeptic adult as I did as a young believer. And I would love it if bigfoot turned out to be real, I want to believe, but we've long reached a point where something substantial should have turned up. Still buying the Safari bigfoot though. 

Tetzoo Episode 3: http://tetzoo.com/podcast/2013/2/20/episode-3-featuring-bigfoots-feet
Monster Talk: https://www.skeptic.com/podcasts/monstertalk/

[Brocc21]

What ever that thing we saw in the Patterson film was, if Sasquatch's are even around today and not driven into extinction. The Patterson film is not fake in my opinion and most evidence dislikes the idea of it being a costume. Many scientists and artists like Phil tippet have put it to the test. Most examinations show A human could not fit in that suit and even closer examination show what appears to be muscle movements under the skin.

Speaking of the figure I can't wait to get it. I know a bit on the supposed anatomy of Bigfoot so I'll enjoy taking a closer look.

Also did any one grow up watching monster quest?

[Pachyrhinosaurus]

I got into bigfoot when the local zoo started a gag exhibit each year around Halloween. It's fun even if I don't know if I believe or not, especially around this time of year.

[Doug Watson]

Yeah, funny how the rise and eventual ubiquity of cameras has correlated with a decrease in photographic evidence. Funny, also, how the number of Bigfoot sightings have gone down as our ability to record evidence has gone up. The same is true for all the famous cryptids. Bigfoot and Nessie RIP. 

I can see two possible explanations. 1. The happy theory: With the increase in people searching their habitat trying to get photos after the Patterson film Bigfoot realized we were hunting them and became more elusive.
2. The sad theory: With our increased encroachment into their habitat, "Patty" was one of the last of her kind and they have become extinct.

I don't know if you and TQ have already read it, but I strongly recommend Abominable Science by Donald Prothero. Prothero grew up firmly believing in Bigfoot, the Abominable Snowman, Nessie, and sea serpents, but he does a fine job in this book of deconstructing the alleged evidence for their existence, including the Patterson film.

No I haven't read that in fact until Safari Ltd brought out their piece I hadn't even looked at the Patterson film for a long time. That release got me to check it out again and I was surprised to discover the work by film analyst M.K. Davis who has used developments in computer technology to produce enhancements of the Patterson–Gimlin film. Mr Davis created a version that removes the shakiness of the camera, permitting the bigfoot to be seen from a more stable perspective. Davis also has produced a second stabilized version incorporating enlargements of specific elements that he believes are significant. If it was a suit made by a B level Hollywood costume maker like Morris you would expect higher definition to show even more flaws. The opposite is true. It looks even more like a large living primate. In the enhanced footage you see the kind of colour variation, short hairs and muscle definition you see on Lowland Gorillas. I was particularly impressed by the dark line that shows up running down the vertebrae something you never see in 1960s suits. In fact if Morris had said he acquired a taxidermic Lowland Gorilla skin and made his suit from that I might have been convinced. The suit Morris made in 2002 to prove his claims is shaggy, reddish with no colour variation typical of 1960s B movie gorilla suits.
Check out Mr. Davis' work here https://thedavisreport.wordpress.com/the-backmuscles-of-the-patterson-sasquatch/ and here https://thedavisreport.wordpress.com/the-patterson-bigfoot-film-with-high-quality-frames/ and here https://thedavisreport.wordpress.com/2018/08/. That last clip shows the remarkable smoothness in the turning of the head on the neck something else you don't see in movie suits. He has other clips on his site.
Another hole in the Morris/Heironimus claim is body proportion analysis. In the video showing Heironimus doing the bigfoot walk in the 2002 suit while he has got the walk and arm swing down pretty good (something you could probably do with practice) the body proportions are way off and when compared frame by frame with the Patterson film it is obvious they aren't a match.

[tyrantqueen]

Saquatch: the apes among is a very good read if you would like to learn about the various reported sightings of Bigfoot over the centuries. Bill Munns has also done some interesting analysis on the PGF.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9WO8c38cRo

The Patterson film is not fake in my opinion and most evidence dislikes the idea of it being a costume. Many scientists and artists like Phil tippet have put it to the test

Fair enough, although I'd like to point out that Stan Winston believed it to be fake, as have many others.

2. The sad theory: With our increased encroachment into their habitat, "Patty" was one of the last of her kind and they have become extinct.

This is probably the theory I'd go with if (and a big IF) the film is real. The Bigfoot community is sadly rife with hoaxers which is one of the reasons why I stopped paying it any attention.

If Bigfoot doesn't exist, at least it's encouraging people to get outdoors, which is a great thing.

[Doug Watson]

Saquatch: the apes among is a very good read if you would like to learn about the various reported sightings of Bigfoot over the centuries. Bill Munns has also done some interesting analysis on the PGF.

The only book I have on the subject is the 1973 Sasquatch by Don Hunter & René Dahinden that chronicles all the Sasquatch evidence up to that point in time.

That clip was very interesting, thank you. The more I watch these technical analyses the more it confirms what I have already seen through the eyes of a sculptor and long time primate enthusiast.

There is a long list of both scientists and movie professionals that have provided opinions on both sides of the argument. I tend to listen to the ones that provide in depth analysis like Munns rather than the ones that make flippant comments out of hand like Winston (who I am a fan of). Rick Baker also suggested the PGF used a "bad" Chambers suit initially but he now believes that isn't true.

[Derek.McManus]

If the creatures ever existed they are probably extinct by now.