Youtube & COPPA

[DinoToyForum]

I need to decide how to categorise the Dinotoyblog Youtube channel in response to a new setting related to the Children's Online Privacy Protection Act (COPPA). See here: https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/blogs/business-blog/2019/11/youtube-channel-owners-your-content-directed-children

I need to state whether or not the channel and its content are "targeted at children".

Essentially, if Youtube content is categorised by the content creator as directed at children then that video/channel will be demonetised. If it is not categorised as such by the content creator, but is deemed to be directed at children by the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) or by Youtube itself, then the content/channel will be demonetised and potentially even shut down and the creator fined.

This will destroy a lot of channels dedicated to children's content, but a lot of channels are not easy to categorise. There is a lot of grey area, especially around the definition of "directed at children"?

I would argue that the DinoToyBlog channel isn't explicitly directed at children, but it is about 'toys', so maybe someone on the outside looking in (the FTA!) would see it differently. Even if my videos are primarily directed at adult collectors, some children must watch the channel, even if I'm not targeting it at them. Some of my videos are also silly: Dinosaurs and their biscuits, and Fish Fish Fish, are not aimed at kids, but I'd probably struggle to defend that position. So, how would you categorise the DinoToyBlog channel? Do I just need to accept that the outside world will classify it as targeted at children?

Do you have a channel that might be affected, what will you do? I'm thinking of @ @E.D.G.E. @Kayakasaurus B @BionicleSaurus @Ikessauro but there are many others.

[CityRaptor]

I feel that it might affect a lot Dinosaur related channels negatively due to the "Dinosaurs are for children" stigma.

[PumperKrickel]

deleted

[DinoToyForum]

Is there any downside to declaring your channel as directed at children? Better safe than sorry I say.

The downside for the content creator is that the channel/videos gets demonetised, i.e. no longer generate money through ads.

[Concavenator]

@dinotoyforum

In my opinion the channel could be categorized as either being directed at children or not.

It could be argued that the content is aimed at children because the main focus of the channel is on toy dinosaurs. But it could also be said that dinosaur collectibles is another type of collecting, so not necessarily it is aimed towards children specifically, just if as someone who collects beer bottle's caps could say that collecting those caps is not necessarily directed to children.

I think that if you could have the channel be categorized as "not directed to children", that could potentially make you some money, so that should be good for you. I wouldn't see the need in having the channel being categorized as "aimed at children" if that means you would stop earning some money.

[stargatedalek]

Is there any downside to declaring your channel as directed at children? Better safe than sorry I say.

The downside for the content creator is that the channel/videos gets demonetised, i.e. no longer generate money through ads.

It looses targeted adds, it isn't technically demonetized. Though targeted adds are typically estimated at 60-90% of a channels revenue. Add to this that Youtube already partially demonetized (and makes lower priority in searches and recommendations) videos deemed "inappropriate" for children and it might as well be complete demonetization either way.

Does the FTC even have jurisdiction outside of the united states? I can't imagine they have the ability to fine foreign citizens given we have no ability to vote on US policy, and if they somehow do that's appalling. Likely the worst that can happen is Youtube deleting the channel.

[Blade-of-the-Moon]

I labeled the older videos/channel I have up as "for children " even though they really aren't. I'm not making money on having them there and would just as soon like to avoid more possible fines.  As I can tell the negative in marking it for kids is that the videos aren't recommended anyone ( not as likely to turn up in searches? ) and it disables commenting and the ability for people to like them.  Basically it's just a hosting site for us now.

Is it really so hard for parents to police they're own children?  I've seen my own cousin hand her 7 year old a phone with youtube so she can sit quietly and babysit herself.  This is also why the toy market is suffering, stop playing and just watch others do it.,,sigh

[DinoToyForum]

Yeah, @stargatedalek, FTC have no jurisdiction outside of the USA so the main concern will be having the channel pulled (or even having my whole Google account pulled?). Who knows? Thanks for the clarification that only targeted ads will be removed. As you say, that's still serious stuff, especially for any channels that are dependent on revenue from Youtube.

If, as @Blade-of-the-Moon suggests, videos declared as "targeted at children" also have their comments disabled and are removed from recommended lists and search results, those are some quite serious negatives.

This seems like a lose-lose situation...

[DinoToyForum]

@dinotoyforum

In my opinion the channel could be categorized as either being directed at children or not.

It could be argued that the content is aimed at children because the main focus of the channel is on toy dinosaurs. But it could also be said that dinosaur collectibles is another type of collecting, so not necessarily it is aimed towards children specifically, just if as someone who collects beer bottle's caps could say that collecting those caps is not necessarily directed to children.

I think that if you could have the channel be categorized as "not directed to children", that could potentially make you some money, so that should be good for you. I wouldn't see the need in having the channel being categorized as "aimed at children" if that means you would stop earning some money.

Yeah, that's my gut reaction, but it seem like the final arbiter on who my channel is targeted at isn't down to me. So if I get it wrong, so to speak, there could be consequences.   

[Blade-of-the-Moon]

Yeah, @stargatedalek, FTC have no jurisdiction outside of the USA so the main concern will be having the channel pulled (or even having my whole Google account pulled?). Who knows? Thanks for the clarification that only targeted ads will be removed. As you say, that's still serious stuff, especially for any channels that are dependent on revenue from Youtube.

If, as @Blade-of-the-Moon suggests, videos declared as "targeted at children" also have their comments disabled and are removed from recommended lists and search results, those are some quite serious negatives.

This seems like a lose-lose situation...

It really is .  I've watched a lot of videos and tried to read some info on the whole thing.  All have said " Do not rely on Youtube to do anything for you " including youtube itself.

I don't know if you can view this article, but here is the link :https://vidiq.com/blog/post/coppa-kids-content-youtube/

I can post from it by quoting :

#9 If I set my content as made for kids, what does this mean for my channel?

YouTube clearly states that if your video content is aimed towards children, the platform now HAS to start limiting the data it collects on these viewers. It will also remove features including:

Comments
Personalized ads (so some creators may see a decrease in revenue).
Info cards
End screens
Stories
Community Tab
Notification Bell
The ability for viewers to save videos, watch them later, or save to a playlist.

What's really scary is that Youtube may only be the first.

[stargatedalek]

Is it really so hard for parents to police they're own children?  I've seen my own cousin hand her 7 year old a phone with youtube so she can sit quietly and babysit herself.  This is also why the toy market is suffering, stop playing and just watch others do it.,,sigh

The problem doesn't actually stem from children seeing things they shouldn't, that's about the only thing this legislation doesn't even address. It's supposedly in place to stop producers from profiting off of children who are more easily manipulated into watching things just to be farmed for sponsorships or merchandising. Of course this rarely happens through Youtube, and those who do it are large corporations like the Paul brothers, not individual creators, but if Youtube can pin the blame on small creators who bring them less revenue they will.

[DinoToyForum]

That's a helpful article @Blade-of-the-Moon . Those consequences of categorising a video as intended for children are severe, and the implications of this are far greater than I first appreciated.

I can't see any advantage, other than free hosting, for creators of content intended for children (or classified by Youtube as such, even if it isn't) to continue using the Youtube platform. What use is free hosting if your video is just sitting there in the ether not being viewed? In my case, I might as well upload my videos to my own host at dinotoyblog.com and integrate the videos into my own website.

It will be very interesting to see how this plays out. Some backtracking seems inevitable to me if the Youtube platform is to remain viable.

[Loon]

Here's a video that goes over the legislation for those interested:

https://youtu.be/LuScIN4emyo

[Blade-of-the-Moon]

Is it really so hard for parents to police they're own children?  I've seen my own cousin hand her 7 year old a phone with youtube so she can sit quietly and babysit herself.  This is also why the toy market is suffering, stop playing and just watch others do it.,,sigh

The problem doesn't actually stem from children seeing things they shouldn't, that's about the only thing this legislation doesn't even address. It's supposedly in place to stop producers from profiting off of children who are more easily manipulated into watching things just to be farmed for sponsorships or merchandising. Of course this rarely happens through Youtube, and those who do it are large corporations like the Paul brothers, not individual creators, but if Youtube can pin the blame on small creators who bring them less revenue they will.

I've heard it said they started there as a jumping off point, parents complaining, ect..  and it went into this insanity.   They totally forgot that there is a Youtube Kids..sigh  Youtube really should have done something early on and yeah they sort of did, I mean you have to be 13 to have a youtube account but they needed to address who sees what and how. Some verification process. How are kids manipulated really? They havent jobs or cash flow other than what their parents give them..so your back to parents again.  I deal with a lot of kids throughout the year and it's a trend to just turn kids loose to do whatever.    Youtube passing the blame is just ..well i can't use that language here.  If they go under from this is was a lack of forethought and just really bad luck.  I was worried because I can't do any more monetary losses after fighting the local government here.  The people we allow to make decisions for us..ugh

That's a helpful article @Blade-of-the-Moon . Those consequences of categorizing a video as intended for children are severe, and the implications of this are far greater than I first appreciated.

I can't see any advantage, other than free hosting, for creators of content intended for children (or classified by Youtube as such, even if it isn't) to continue using the Youtube platform. What use is free hosting if your video is just sitting there in the ether not being viewed? In my case, I might as well upload my videos to my own host at dinotoyblog.com and integrate the videos into my own website.

It will be very interesting to see how this plays out. Some backtracking seems inevitable to me if the Youtube platform is to remain viable.

Free hosting is about it.  Under the threat of fines I almost just deleted my videos altogether. Most are on facebook anyway. It's just a much steeper penalty for even trying to do something than  I care to deal with.

If videos are hosted on your own site the up side is you will be driving people to where they need to be for all your content. If you can get the word out as to where it is initially effectively enough.  That will be great until some government agency decides to go after individuals or other hosting platforms. 

[DinoToyForum]

Well, I think the DinoToyBlog channel may be stuffed.

Following quote from here: https://support.google.com/youtube/thread/13557434?hl=en

Q: How does your system / algorithm define content as "Made for Kids"?
Our system is using the factors set forth by the FTC to identify "Made for Kids" content. For example, it's working to identify videos that focus on subject matter or content that is designed for kids, like those that have an emphasis on kids' characters, themes, toys, or games

My emphasis. There's no denying the channel is about toys even if it isn't "made for kids". I'm really curious what other similar Youtube content creators are thinking.

[Primeval12]

I only make some dinosaur videos and I'm still worried. Luckily I cuss like a truck driver in my videos. 

Edit: Dinosaur Toy Blog subscribed to me. Big Brother much

But seriously, thank you!

[DinoToyForum]

I only make some dinosaur videos and I'm still worried. Luckily I cuss like a truck driver in my videos. 

Edit: Dinosaur Toy Blog subscribed to me. Big Brother much

But seriously, thank you!

That was me.

[DinoToyForum]

So, I've set DinoToyBlog Channel as "Yes, set this channel as made for kids. I always upload content that's made for kids." Even though I don't, but it's irrelevant what I think. It isn't worth the risk of my content or channel being removed, and I'm not completely sure I'm safe from the potential fine for declaring wrongly (even though I'm outside of the USA).

So, we'll see how things pan out in the new year. My videos/channel will lose all their comments, likes, end screens, and subscribers.

[Blade-of-the-Moon]

So, I've set DinoToyBlog Channel as "Yes, set this channel as made for kids. I always upload content that's made for kids." Even though I don't, but it's irrelevant what I think. It isn't worth the risk of my content or channel being removed, and I'm not completely sure I'm safe from the potential fine for declaring wrongly (even though I'm outside of the USA).

So, we'll see how things pan out in the new year. My videos/channel will lose all their comments, likes, end screens, and subscribers.

Probably doesn't help much, but your not alone bud.

[DinoToyForum]

So, I've set DinoToyBlog Channel as "Yes, set this channel as made for kids. I always upload content that's made for kids." Even though I don't, but it's irrelevant what I think. It isn't worth the risk of my content or channel being removed, and I'm not completely sure I'm safe from the potential fine for declaring wrongly (even though I'm outside of the USA).

So, we'll see how things pan out in the new year. My videos/channel will lose all their comments, likes, end screens, and subscribers.

Probably doesn't help much, but your not alone bud.

Yes, I'm sure other DTF members are grappling with this as well. @Victoria B is another one who comes to mind.