Dead 'Gator

[amargasaurus cazaui]

I do not really disagree with too much you said there Gwangi, but the first time you watch a bunch of Billy Joe gunracks dynamite harvest a river, or two or three hunters use a hidden net to snare half a dozen deer, or perhaps a group of southern good old buys chasing elk down using a car, with a roof cut out for shooters, you begin to understand enforcement is not where it should or could be and requires more funding . A significant threat, perhaps not . Humans arent always to blame for extinctions either, we have nurtured the panda for years, and it is one of the most poorly adapted and best canidates for natural extinction on its own merits.
    But, I also feel we owe the animals more and take the cheap way out too often. Funding is constantly cut, and there are many programs being canceled that were designed for these animals protection. We owe them more than we are doing.
  Yes, many of the species you mentioned are being wiped out by loss of habitat, and other human by products that elimante their homes, and lands. But in the end even that is just us being cheap, rather than investing in creating habitats for them when we do.
   There is a breaking point for the eco system, and as we continue destroying and eliminating, we will eventually reach it and crash the rich diversity of life here. Once we do, I doubt it will matter much wether they went from car exhaust or a rile bullet, if they are gone. But then we may not make it to have to face that moment ourselves....

[tyrantqueen]

I agree. There is nothing wrong to hunt animals, but some cultures kill endangered animals for just there skin or fur. Look at the Amura Leopard. Only 15 exist in the wild. And they are hunted and there habitat is destroyed.

Then what is the problem? As far as I know, American Alligators are not endangered.

To the OP, why was this topic posted in the dinosaurs section? I don't think gators are dinosaurs.

[Takama]

I agree. There is nothing wrong to hunt animals, but some cultures kill endangered animals for just there skin or fur. Look at the Amura Leopard. Only 15 exist in the wild. And they are hunted and there habitat is destroyed.

Then what is the problem? As far as I know, American Alligators are not endangered.

To the OP, why was this topic posted in the dinosaurs section? I don't think gators are dinosaurs.

gators share the same ancestors as dinosaurs though.

That and the thoght that if gators are left un scathed long enough they could become big enough to become a deinosuchus

[Simon]

Not likely they will ever attain such size again because:

Environmental conditions aren't as favorable as they were during the Cretaceous - atmospheric oxygen levels are lower today, the world is cooler, both of which conditions affect plant growth rates and consequently also growth rates of plant eaters, which limits the size of their predators...

[radman]

To the OP, why was this topic posted in the dinosaurs section? I don't think gators are dinosaurs.

I observed that when I first posted this article, this news section included posts on mammoths, pterosaurs, pliosaurs and other non-dinosaurs, a few of which were started by Dr. Admin himself.  So really, get over your bad self.

Secondly, while I did not comment philosophically one way or another when I first posted this, I was surprised and actually pleased to see the amount of reaction this has gotten.  I guess I'm neutral here - the alligator was legally taken on a private hunting preserve, it's not an endangered species, and the hunters likely paid a good amount to kill this animal, money which will go towards continued preservation of the habitat.

Lastly, this animal itself must have killed thousands of other animals during its lifetime to achieve this size, and it was likely this feeling of superiority that led to its downfall - most gators sink to the bottom when they see or feel a boat approaching.  The largest ones may not deign to do this this, as I have observed myself while on the bayous in Louisiana.  I'm not sure how this gator was taken, apparently there were gaffing hooks involved, but I don't know if baited hooks were set; anyway, I just thought it was an interesting article and picture.  Unfortunately, hunters rarely say, "Wow what a magnificent bull elk, alligator, etc, let's let this one live", no, the big one is the trophy hunter's goal.  Anyway, the American alligator recovery (due to a combination of conservation and hunting licences) is a success story, so let's hope it continues to thrive.

[tyrantqueen]

I observed that when I first posted this article, this news section included posts on mammoths, pterosaurs, pliosaurs and other non-dinosaurs, a few of which were started by Dr. Admin himself.  So really, get over your bad self.

There's no need to jump down my throat. I was asking a simple question

[Gwangi]

Not likely they will ever attain such size again because:

I don't know about ever. I'm sure during the Cretaceous no one thought the mammals would ever dominate the earth.  I get what you're saying but we have no idea what the future will be like thousands or millions of years from now.

[Gwangi]

I do not really disagree with too much you said there Gwangi, but the first time you watch a bunch of Billy Joe gunracks dynamite harvest a river, or two or three hunters use a hidden net to snare half a dozen deer, or perhaps a group of southern good old buys chasing elk down using a car, with a roof cut out for shooters, you begin to understand enforcement is not where it should or could be and requires more funding . A significant threat, perhaps not . Humans arent always to blame for extinctions either, we have nurtured the panda for years, and it is one of the most poorly adapted and best canidates for natural extinction on its own merits.
    But, I also feel we owe the animals more and take the cheap way out too often. Funding is constantly cut, and there are many programs being canceled that were designed for these animals protection. We owe them more than we are doing.
  Yes, many of the species you mentioned are being wiped out by loss of habitat, and other human by products that elimante their homes, and lands. But in the end even that is just us being cheap, rather than investing in creating habitats for them when we do.

No, I don't think we really disagree too much. Just on the level of impact wrought on wildlife by illegal hunting. I know people like those you describe and they are terrible for the crimes they commit. Greater enforcement is needed I agree but at least some progress has been and is being made. Illegal hunting is not the primary issue in the U.S. and most game species are doing fairly well.

There is a breaking point for the eco system, and as we continue destroying and eliminating, we will eventually reach it and crash the rich diversity of life here. Once we do, I doubt it will matter much wether they went from car exhaust or a rile bullet, if they are gone. But then we may not make it to have to face that moment ourselves....

I hope we don't reach that breaking point. Ultimately however it will be humans who suffer the most and one must wonder how much we can do to the planet before we reach the point where not even we can survive. In the end the planet will recover from whatever damage we do and life will continue, it always does.

[amargasaurus cazaui]

I am thinking you must live close to a larger urban area , as referencing your comments about New York. Here where I live, (kansas) we do not seem to have as much enforcement as you are accustomed and some of the things I describe are somewhat more common, I am guessing. It is normal here to visit a lake or river and sometimes find a quantity of fish bank dressed for instance, or noticing someone hunting from a modified vehicle. I am glad it is not the norm.
   As for the planet always recovering...it has in our experience yes. However our planet is young compared to most, and our own recollections even younger. I hope your optimism is justified. I myself just wish we could find a way to coexist and not be so destructive to what is natural in our world.
    I find a bit of comfort from wandering outside late at night and finding the back yard here populated with a few possums, and a small pod of racoons. Course I wish they would leave the trash cans alone !!!

[Takama]

man this topic is geeting wild

[Gwangi]

I am thinking you must live close to a larger urban area , as referencing your comments about New York. Here where I live, (kansas) we do not seem to have as much enforcement as you are accustomed and some of the things I describe are somewhat more common, I am guessing. It is normal here to visit a lake or river and sometimes find a quantity of fish bank dressed for instance, or noticing someone hunting from a modified vehicle. I am glad it is not the norm.
   As for the planet always recovering...it has in our experience yes. However our planet is young compared to most, and our own recollections even younger. I hope your optimism is justified. I myself just wish we could find a way to coexist and not be so destructive to what is natural in our world.
    I find a bit of comfort from wandering outside late at night and finding the back yard here populated with a few possums, and a small pod of racoons. Course I wish they would leave the trash cans alone !!!

NYC is a small part of a very large state, the same state that holds the 6.1 million acre Adirondack State Park (greater than the National Parks of Yellowstone, Yosemite, Grand Canyon, Glacier, and Great Smoky Mountains combined). I live 5 hours from New York City.  It is mostly farm land around here (I did mention bears right?). As such I have seen many things similar to those you describe. Regardless how it appears you can check the numbers, most game species targeted by humans are increasing in numbers. You mention fish but most of the fish under threat are small isolated populations in places undergoing development of some kind (snail darter or Devil's Hole pup fish ring any bells?) or contenting with invasive species.
I've actually taken the liberty to look up your states endangered and threatened species list. Most of your large mammals were killed off in colonial times and while absent from Kansas most of them are not federally endangered and belong to species on the rise in most of the country. You have pronghorn antelope which have grown in population from 319 animals in 1977 to 1600-1700 in modern times. You have whooping cranes which have increased from 15 in 1938 to 382 in modern times (despite occasionally be shot by poachers). The only two endangered mammal species in your state are the black footed ferret and grey myotis (a species of bat). Oh yes, and the eastern spotted skunk is threatened. I'm not saying I don't agree with you, poaching is a problem that needs to be dealt with better but I don't think it is a big a problem as it may appear. The numbers support my claim.

[amargasaurus cazaui]

Yay us then, the populations are rising !!! Especially whooping cranes, they are such amazing animals. The place you looked does not give any numbers for fish of any kind ? I would be interested to know if there are any here that are in danger or being wiped out.
    On another note, wow I had no idea New york was such a massive place. I drove through the place once coming from connecticut headed west, but hardly remember anything except the urban parts. You actually have bears, thats lucky I think. 

[Gryphoceratops]

Yay us then, the populations are rising !!! Especially whooping cranes, they are such amazing animals. The place you looked does not give any numbers for fish of any kind ? I would be interested to know if there are any here that are in danger or being wiped out.
    On another note, wow I had no idea New york was such a massive place. I drove through the place once coming from connecticut headed west, but hardly remember anything except the urban parts. You actually have bears, thats lucky I think.

oh wow yeah NY is HUGE.  LOT more than just NYC. 

[amargasaurus cazaui]

Yay us then, the populations are rising !!! Especially whooping cranes, they are such amazing animals. The place you looked does not give any numbers for fish of any kind ? I would be interested to know if there are any here that are in danger or being wiped out.
    On another note, wow I had no idea New york was such a massive place. I drove through the place once coming from connecticut headed west, but hardly remember anything except the urban parts. You actually have bears, thats lucky I think.

oh wow yeah NY is HUGE.  LOT more than just NYC.

Huge is kinda comparative, isnt it?

[Gwangi]

Yay us then, the populations are rising !!! Especially whooping cranes, they are such amazing animals. The place you looked does not give any numbers for fish of any kind ? I would be interested to know if there are any here that are in danger or being wiped out.
    On another note, wow I had no idea New york was such a massive place. I drove through the place once coming from connecticut headed west, but hardly remember anything except the urban parts. You actually have bears, thats lucky I think.

What I was looking at was the Kansas list of endangered and threatened species. Fish are included but aside from the pallid sturgeon they're all various species of minnows, darters, madtoms, lamprey and other non-game species. The little guys. There is also a list of species in need of concern. You can check it out here. It is great seeing species rebound from our past crimes against them but if our population keeps growing all that progress could be for nothing. A lot of game species and predators are continuing to grow in population and return to their old haunts but that often puts them in conflict with us which typically ends badly for them. We really need to strive for some sort of balance and co-existence with the natural world.
A lot of people make the mistake of thinking NY is nothing but the city but there really is a lot more to it. NY is actually the 27t largest state.

[radman]

I observed that when I first posted this article, this news section included posts on mammoths, pterosaurs, pliosaurs and other non-dinosaurs, a few of which were started by Dr. Admin himself.  So really, get over your bad self.

There's no need to jump down my throat. I was asking a simple question

I guess my response didn't convey/translate the way I intended.  I'm probably out of touch with the current slang.  No offense was intended. Chillax!