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avatar_Halichoeres

Grandemarinus, a marine gar from the Cretaceous

Started by Halichoeres, July 20, 2023, 11:29:48 PM

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Halichoeres

Modern gars are mostly freshwater fishes, although you might be surprised how often you'll see alligator gars miles out into the Gulf of Mexico. Here, though, is a new fully marine gar from the Turonian (Late Cretaceous) of Morocco. Meet Grandemarinus gherisensis ("[Lance] Grande marine of Oued Gheri"). Lance Grande is a paleoichthyologist; his tome An Empirical Synthetic Pattern Study of Gars (Lepisosteiformes) and Closely Related Species, Based Mostly on Skeletal Anatomy: The Resurrection of Holostei is in my personal library, although it's not the sort of thing you just sit down and read on a lazy Sunday with a cup of coffee.

Here's the skull:


The animal was a little over a meter long, and the head was only about 25% of that length, which is much shorter than in modern gars, even the alligator gar. So this fish had a meaningfully different profile, which should give folks interpreting animals described from scales or jaw fragments a little pause.

Paper is paywalled, but I'm happy to send the pdf to anyone who's interested. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0195667123001787
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Saarlooswolfhound

Gars are amazing fish, thank you for sharing! The head profile was the first thing I noticed in your attached photos... how interesting to compare it to modern species. Just off hand, is this the sort of fish that Spinosaurus would have preyed on? Seems to be the right place at the right time.

Faelrin

It isn't often we see new finds of fossil fish here. I'd like to see the paper on this one too. Is this the first marine gar found so far?

avatar_Saarlooswolfhound @Saarlooswolfhound That's an interesting thing to think about.
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Saarlooswolfhound

From what I gather, a lot of lay people consider Spino to be a downgraded predator now that it is thought to be a piscivore and mostly aquatic in habits (I know these claims, the latter anyway, are still being studied and objected to etc.). BUT if you sit down with it... the fish? We are talking like, GIANT sawfish, lungfish, axelrodichthys... not only were these giants but they had sawlike protrusions on their face, body armor, spines... those are serious weapons even for a dinosaur. If you add a big ol' gar to the list, I'd say Spinosaurus was a pretty formidable predator even it preyed on "just" fish.
 **Please keep in mind, I know this animal is still heavily studied and I don't necessarily cling to these claims; I am using them as the current theories commonly believed for the above argument's sake** :D

Stegotyranno420

Quote from: Saarlooswolfhound on July 21, 2023, 04:55:33 AMFrom what I gather, a lot of lay people consider Spino to be a downgraded predator now that it is thought to be a piscivore and mostly aquatic in habits (I know these claims, the latter anyway, are still being studied and objected to etc.). BUT if you sit down with it... the fish? We are talking like, GIANT sawfish, lungfish, axelrodichthys... not only were these giants but they had sawlike protrusions on their face, body armor, spines... those are serious weapons even for a dinosaur. If you add a big ol' gar to the list, I'd say Spinosaurus was a pretty formidable predator even it preyed on "just" fish.
 **Please keep in mind, I know this animal is still heavily studied and I don't necessarily cling to these claims; I am using them as the current theories commonly believed for the above argument's sake** :D
Not to mention it lived in the "hardest server" of its time. Paralititan, Carcharodontosaurus, etc, etc,etc

Halichoeres

Quote from: Saarlooswolfhound on July 21, 2023, 12:26:20 AMGars are amazing fish, thank you for sharing! The head profile was the first thing I noticed in your attached photos... how interesting to compare it to modern species. Just off hand, is this the sort of fish that Spinosaurus would have preyed on? Seems to be the right place at the right time.

This particular specimen is several million years later than Spinosaurus, but a fish resembling this is absolutely plausible prey for Spinosaurus or a relative.

Quote from: Faelrin on July 21, 2023, 12:40:12 AMIt isn't often we see new finds of fossil fish here. I'd like to see the paper on this one too. Is this the first marine gar found so far?

As far as I know it is the first wholly marine one, but I might have missed one here or there. They're mostly known from rivers or estuaries, and of course all freshwater fish have marine origins if you go back far enough.
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Saarlooswolfhound

#6
Thank you Halichoeres. Spinosaurus is my favorite dinosaur so I love to learn about new things as they come. I also love fish like these gars so I really appreciate your sharing this article/news on a new ancient fish.

SBell

Joschua Knüppe did a fantastic reconstruction of Grandemarinus +not linking to twitter or Facebook) and now I want to alter one of my many gator gar figures... I have doubles of few..

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